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Dwarves...Blah

2K views 33 replies 11 participants last post by  _Toast_ 
#1 ·
I guess played as Undead against my buddy and got own. I hate Dwarves! See the army in action, I fail to see how I can stand against so many shows and against so many warmachines with WEs.
 
#2 ·
I hate dwarves too! Unfortunatly elves in general are at a natural disadvantage when it comes to dwarves, so there is not much you can do but complain. I have only beaten dwarves once, and that was with a army that had only one warmachine. The only "effective" way of fighting them is to use terrain to your advantage, like having your free forest as a shield, to save some lives. I really dont think its possible to say that you can effectively beat dwarves that are deployed for shooting.
 
#3 ·
I find the best way to go up against Dwarves with lots of shooting/warmachines, is to use all the forests on table to your own advantage. Setup lots of glade guards in a line formation so each cannon/bolt thrower can only kill 1 model per shot. Place forests on both sides of the table, then use the spellsingers/branchwraith to close the two forests into the middle, so your glade guards can move closer for better shots.. it will also serve as a charge platform for all of your fast moving units. If you play the game with this style, then you must take minimal one unit of waywatchers joined with noble equipped with HoDA , to take out any grudge throwers as first priority (Besides the Anvil of Doom).

If you can take out any pie plate of death machines, then all your opponent can do is kill 4 models per turn with their 4 cannons/bolt throwers.
 
#4 ·
If you can take out any pie plate of death machines, then all your opponent can do is kill 4 models per turn with their 4 cannons/bolt throwers.
Unless your opponent has Thunderers... Or the Anvil... In which case, he will kill much more than 4 models a turn, especially if you field lots of forest spirits. My best friend plays a shooty dwarf list with 2 units of Thunderers, 2 Bolt Throwers, a Grudge Thrower, a Cannon, and the Anvil and I have never gotten close to beating him. Its quite an enigma if you ask me.
 
#5 ·
That's pretty much a similar list I am facing on the weekly basis. I tend to ignore the cannon/bolt thrower knowing that he's not going to come to me, so I lay out my archers in line formation to get in all shots in every turn. Grudge thrower is probably the only thing I would worry more but that's all depend on the terrain, if I have my opponent contained using forests then I will unload my HoDA on one of his Thunderer unit.

Terrain is also a huge factor in this. If you see your opponent put down a hill, counter it with a forest right in front of it to limit his view. Force him to fight you on the ground so he has to stretch out his rank if he wants to fire all his guns.. which in turn, will block his warmachines if he wishes to fire that. Close in with the forest and flank them from one side of the board with fast calvary.

Remember to limit his firing arc by placing forests infront of him, and use that forest to your advantage.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Every time I play against Dwarfs, I get my ass handed to me. I think they need a good whack with the nerf-stick, but I'm not going to start a moan about that, or I'll be on all day.

The way to beat them is to play someone who doesn't know how to use them :D. Having said that, 6 out of the top 10 in the UK GT (according to the staff at my local GW) were WE players, so there must be ways of doing it - apparently, one army consisted entirely of Dryads, with Drycha as the general; talk about beardy!

It's all about the flank, but it's not easy. Cannons and Bolt Throwers with rune of flame or whatever it's called can kill a Treeman in one hit if they're lucky (ignores armour save and counts as magical so no ward save, and inflicts D3 wounds which is doubled because he's flammable - nasty :x), and their missile fire in general will make a big red smear out of your army. You can't outshoot Dwarfs, so you need to outmanoeuveur them and roll down the flank if you can. Flying units and cavalry really help, and magic wise you either need to go for it and max out on power dice, or not bother.

I've yet to win against them in a straight battle, so it's probably best not to listen to me :lol:.

GS
 
#7 ·
Dwarves can stink of cheese when they want to be. Personaly i hate the anvil the most, you just need to rember that if he wants to shoot D3 of your units with 2D6 hits he will misfire if he rolls a 1-3. To slow down it use i also will sometimes throw a great eagle and 5-6 glade riders at it. By the time they reach it there wont always be enough guys to kill the runelord but it will stop them from using it for a turn or 2. For things like bolt throwers and cannons make sure that your guys are spread out so your only loosing 1 a shot. And as an overall tactic try to get into combat as fast and safe as you can. He cant shoot you if your smacking him in the face.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Here's an old thread on the topic.

In general, here are some things I do:
1. Advance my GG so that I get in short range ASAP. I target the Dwarfs shooty units with my GG since they have very little armor. I generally ignore ranked units with my shooting because it's unlikely that I'm going to kill many, much less panic them.

2. Deploy smart so that my opponent spreads out his forces. My most mobile units can then redeploy in the first turn, moving laterally, say from my left to my right, so that I can then concentrate my attacks on one side of the enemy, essentially ignoring the other half.

3. There is no Dwarf magic to worry about, so I'm more likely to take alters. I've won games almost with them alone. Great weapons make them dwarf killers. I give one the BoL/AB combo and the other gets the HoDA. Then I need to keep them out of any shooting line of sight from the Dwarfs, and I'm golden. But watch out for that damned Anvil and its "shooting" effects. :x

4. I ignore the anvil when it's there. I'm more likely to get laid by telling a strange woman at a bar that I play Warhammer than I am to kill a Runelord. I tend to feint at them with a long range, expendable unit--warhawks or glade riders--just to keep it occupied and distract some other bodyguard type units, while really concentrating my forces elsewhere.

5. Wardancers kick ass!

6. A treeman and some treekin are great at making dwarfs look like a crushed soda can, but you've got to watch out for a flame cannon or any warmachine with a rune of burn down your treefolk.



 
#9 ·
I'm more likely to get laid by telling a strange woman at a bar that I play Warhammer than I am to kill a Runelord.
How am I supposed to take this thread seriously after a comment like that?

I have about 6 basic rules for dwarves.

1. No Treemen or Treekin.... EVER
2. Don't try to out shoot them. Infact except for the HODA don't shoot at all.
3. Don't stop moving forward. Dwarves can't shoot in CC, or at you in CC. So charge charge charge.
4. Fear/Terror - Dwarves are not immune to psycology.
5. Don't let David be your point man when trying to meet women..... EVER
6. Don't bother taking anything magic based, defensive or offensive.

Essentially my armies for dwarves are all dryads and wardancers.
 
#11 ·
If the dwarf player knows he's going to be playing against woodies, then a couple of flaming grudge throwers and/or a flame cannon could make short work of anything flammable. The price for making a grudge thrower flaming is next to nothing:x

Dwarfs are always a tough matchup, for any army, but I think that the WE have as good a chance as any. I imagine organ guns would be especially nasty and could annihilate a unit of wardancers in one turn no problem :/

Ciao

Stonehambey
 
#12 ·
Trust me, Wood elves dont have a good a chance as any, they have a worser chance....:( I should know, i usually get schooled all the time by dwarves(mostly because i dont use specifically designed armies, cause you dont know who will be there.)

Oh, and thanks for the advice IamJasonK, ill try to avoid DavidVC04, when i want to pick up strange chicks at questional bars....;)
 
#13 ·
Read Me.

ATTENTION!!!! Perhaps youve read a couple of my posts where Ive complained about playing a Dwarf player with a super nasty gunline who rips me to shreds every game. Well, youll be happy to know that I finally defeated him.

Let me remind you of his list:

Two Bolt Throwers, two units of Thunderers, a Grudge Thrower (with a Master Engineer), a Cannon (also with a Master Engineer), two units of Warriors, a unit of Longbeards, a Gyrocopter, and the Anvil of Doom.

I took:

A unit of 9 Wardancers with a Wardancer Highborn and the Moonstone, two units of 10 Wild Riders with FC and one with a War Banner, three units of 10 Glade Guard, four units of 8 Dryads, a Treeman, and a Noble with the HoDA, a Great Weapon, and the HotH.

My strategy: Run right at him.

Honestly, I didnt bother with terrain, other than to hide the Treeman from the warmachines. I set up all of the Dryads on a single flank and made a charge right for him. He had only two turns to shoot before I smashed into him with the Dryads. The Wild Riders rode up the other flank (a little slower than normal because of that damned Gyrocopter). I flattened the Glade Guard into single ranks of 10 and had them fire at stuff on the hill where all of his artillery was set up.

One unit of Wild Riders hit the rear flank of a unit of Warriors, broke them, ran them down, and then hit the flank of the other unit of Warriors, who they again broke and ran down. The Longbeards failed a Terror test when assaulted by the Treeman, and were destroyed when they fled through a unit of Dryads.

The other unit of Wild Riders got shot up real bad, but the two surviving members managed to take out a Bolt Thrower crew, then turn and run down the Gyrocopter which was in the same fight.

The Glade Guard managed to kill one and a half units of Thunderers.

His Grudge Thrower blew itself up in turn 4.

The Wardancers were recognized as a threat and destroyed quite quickly.

The HoDA flopped. 13 shots producing only 1 wound.

By the end of the game, all my opponent had left was the Anvil, one Bolt Thrower, half a unit of Thunderers, and the Master Engineer from his Cannon.

I think it might be a viable strategy against Dwarves to stock up on our toughest units and give them a direct charge. It might have just been a lucky fight for me, but who knows, maybe it will work again :rolleyes:
 
#15 ·
An aggressive strat? Crazy enough that it might work! Trees are still good though, we are uninhibited by them.
 
#17 ·
Classic Tyranid charge by leaving your opponent two turns of shooting or one turn if they don't get to go first. By taking a whole bunch of cheap dispensable units (cheap as in.. cheapest of WE army) and have them fold like fodders, while protecting the more stronger and more expensive unit to advance into combat. I like this idea! ;)
 
#21 ·
More I look at Glade riders, the more I think they are pointless... compared to Wilder Riders.
 
#22 ·
Yes.

A unit of Wildriders hitting a ranked unit of Dwarves in the flank is devastating. Kills their rank bonus, kills their hand weapon and shield bonus, and most of all, kills some of the Dwarves. If you have a banner on the unit, then that gives you 2 points of combat res. plus whatever you kill, which should be a lot, leaving the Dwarves with only 1 (for outnumbering) or 2 (if the unit also has a banner) and they should have not much left to fight back. Quite nice Id say.

The hard part being, of course, getting Dwarves to show their flank to you. Now thats the real challenge.
 
#23 ·
1. Once you get rid of the shooty parts of the Dwarf army, you can basically run circles around the stunties or duck into the forest for a quick getaway. The main advantage of the Woodelves over Dwarves is speed! Shooting and fleeing may not seem very noble, but WE are sneaky.

Waywatcher snipe any Runelords or siege crew at the start of the game, or/and send Wardancers with moonstone if they're unlucky enough to deploy in a forest.

2. If you have a regiment of Eternal Guard AND an Eternal Guard Noble/Highborn, you can give a good long fight. Their multiple decent skilled attacks and good leadership should match the saves and leadership of the dwarves. While the stubborn vs stubby combat is going on, you can flank them with another unit.

3. I would not use Dryads, Treemen or Treekin unless I was 100% sure of getting a chance to be rid of the ranged magic attacks of the Dwarves early on, or at least nullify their effectiveness (i.e. hide behind their units, a forests or get out of their range of sight). I think a Drycha list would be verging on suicide to a well equipted Dwarf army.

4. If you can tempt dwaves (or any other race) into a wood, you can garuntee they'll have a hell of a time. That in mind, your enemies will try to avoid woods. That in mind, Waywatchers are almost a MUST.
 
#24 ·
1. Once you get rid of the shooty parts of the Dwarf army, you can basically run circles around the stunties or duck into the forest for a quick getaway. The main advantage of the Woodelves over Dwarves is speed! Shooting and fleeing may not seem very noble, but WE are sneaky.

Waywatcher snipe any Runelords or siege crew at the start of the game, or/and send Wardancers with moonstone if they're unlucky enough to deploy in a forest.

2. If you have a regiment of Eternal Guard AND an Eternal Guard Noble/Highborn, you can give a good long fight. Their multiple decent skilled attacks and good leadership should match the saves and leadership of the dwarves. While the stubborn vs stubby combat is going on, you can flank them with another unit.
.
You say this as if works. Sorry guy, but really to ever get a smart Dwarf player to do that is impossible. Dwarf players are incredably nasty were i play, and they love to deploy in tight corners with full flank support by table edges. I also think that its a little unlikely that eternal guard will ever win in combat. The spear staves are nice against weak opponents, but from expierance, a unit of dwarves will always win in a unit/vs/unit fight, even if you charge. Id reather trade my stubburn for some decent armor, as well.
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
The purpose of the Eternal Gaurd is to delay only. With stubborn, they have a 3 in 4 chance of staying in combat, in which time you can get reinforcements. They are not meant, or expected to win on their own against equal or greater unit strength Dwarves (Though it is not impossible).
By effectively stopping a unit in their tracks, you can then charge in the flank with, lets say Wild Riders, and then crush the dwarf unit.
Eternal Gaurd delay and line up enemy units so that you are able to flank charge them the following turn. Combined with fast cavalry and you can take out a sturdy dwarf unit in two turns.
:( Sorry that I didn't make it that clear before.

On getting Dwarves into woods,

If your dwarf opponent puts down a terrain piece, you can garuntee that you'll be able to place two forest on either side of the board (centered to maximize your chances of getting real close to his army), which is what you need for the Moonstone. He'll probably deploy a hill, so putting a forest next to it will make him think twice about placing his artillary.

If he's the one who likes taking up a tight corner, then I agree my advice is next to useless. In THAT case, you should moonstone a spellsinger/Glamourweave or two with a unit and get the forest moving to that defensive corner. Then watch them debate on whether or not to go into the woods today. (Fury of the Forest and Treesinging)

With the only other alternative being heading for your other part of your army on the other side of the board, you open him up to a pincer attack.

If your dwarf opponent is first to choose terrain and doesn't put down a terrain piece and is a corner packer, then my tactic is screwed.

(Personally, I'd send in a Waywatcher with Terrors right in the open (but at least 12.1") and try to cause mass panic on the tightly packed battalion. But that is reckless, suicidal and a BIG gamble on victory points. Don't do it unless you're feeling REALLY lucky (Or facing goblins).)
 
#27 ·
As a sometimes dwarf player who has had fun blasting WE to little pieces, I thought I'd chime in. I always take some flaming runes against unknown foes, cause I MIGHT be fighting WE or trolls or tomb kings. So assume you'll be hit with flaming attacks.

I wouldn't recommend taking: treemen, treekin.

I would definately recommend dryads, the increased toughness makes them a fairly survivable screen. They can shield your frail elf infantry from the worst of the firestorm.

As has also been said before, I would make sure to engage the nastiest shooting in CC ASAP, and then maneuver your slower units in for kills.

Take something to prevent marchblocking gyrocopters, 1 of these disrupted my opponents plans completely, enabling a lot more shooting.

Keep in mind dwarves can have substantial resistance to psychology through use of banners/longbeards. So don't count on fear always winning the day. Also watch out for flank-proofing, in the form of stubborn, unbreakable, or oath-stone units. Or simple deployment.

Koosh
 
#28 ·
I wouldn't recommend taking: treemen, treekin.

I would definately recommend dryads, the increased toughness makes them a fairly survivable screen. They can shield your frail elf infantry from the worst of the firestorm.
Treekin are not that great however treeman are a boon to an army, especially ancients. Seeing that we get one woods no matter what, they can simple hide within out of sight and treesing right up to the enemy.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I played against Dwarfs on Sunday and got properly panned :(. He pulped my Treeman with a single cannon shot (with the Rune of bloody Burning My Arse!), his Thunderers managed to actually kill 80-90 percent of my Dryads at long range :((, and to add insult to injury, he used two Organ Guns to make mincemeat out of my Wardancers and Wild Riders rolling 10 both times.

All of this in Turn 2. Talk about a bad game... :x

GS

EDIT: Before anyone says anything about using the free wood, it was a tournament game using a "special scenario" so I wasn't allowed it (the 'scenario' was basically identical to a pitched battle except that table quarters were worth double VPs).
 
#33 ·
his Thunderers managed to actually kill 80-90 percent of my Dryads at long range :(
Don't be too discouraged with the dryads. Remember they cost less than a thunderer, are immune to psych, and have a ward save (if I remember right). So you could easily field more dryads than thunderers for cheaper, and they'll be as resiliant to thunderer shooting as anything in your army. And the special thunderer armor piercing rules don't apply to you.

Average kills (fractions to determine numbers of thunderers for statistical dryad kill):

long range, vs skirmishers: each thunderer hits 1/3 of the time, wounds half the time, and 2/3 get through the dryad ward save. So he'll need to be shooting you with 9 thunderers to kill 1 dryad.

short range, vs skirmishers: hits 1/2, wounds 1/2, 2/3 penetrate the ward. Still needs 6 thunderer shots to kill a dryad.

Given that the dryads are cheap (compared to thunderers anyway), and don't panic when killed (immune to psych) they are still an awesome choice as far as I'm concerned. And they are pretty effective against missle dwarves in close combat! sometimes he'll get lucky, but most often you'll pretty much ignore thunderer fire.

ORGAN GUNS: although they have newly improved range, I don't think they can shoot beyond 24". So you can line up a buncha longbows just outside that, and hope to destroy the crew at a distance. Or stay outside that range. Or just charge the thing with multiple units, so it can't kill or panic all of them. There isn't really a cost effective way to destroy organ guns as far as I know.

the other beardies are gonna lynch me...
Koosh
 
#31 ·
Yeah, Dwarfs are a bugger for that. What is it about short fat beardy things? I hate them :((. War machines always get set up right between two big units of hard stuff, so you can't get to the war machine without having to go through the units to either side of it, or else going at it head on.

Oh yeah, and a Master Engineer with a dug-in cannon. Can't shoot it, can't hit it in combat, and by the time you get there you can't outnumber it either because you've been shot or hacked to pieces on the way. Bah!

They're without a doubt my bogey army. I just can't beat them, no matter how hard I try :realmad:.
 
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