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I'm going to a tournament this weekend and found that most of the guys going have very firm opinions on how to mark Wood Elves on composition.
For starters 10 man units of glade guard are frowned upon and more than 2 are considered cheesy.
Min size unit of dryads not liked and once again more than 2 dryad units frowned upon.
Taking 2 treemen despised.
Not taking banners for glade guard considered unsporting.
My question is how much are you willing to change in your list if you know that a lot of a of players of a certain club will be present. My 3000pt (see army lists) list was threatened with a comp score of 0-1 out of 5 by these club members.
So even before going to the tournament I had no chance of placing well.
I guess I'm a little peeved that clubs can control the outcome of a tournament even before it starts.
I have adjusted my list since then to make it more "friendly" .
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The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
take what you want and bugger the rest.
I take almost everything that you said is bad... i love my 30 GG (no banners) and 2 Treemen
GW makes sure that all the armies are as equal as possible, and if you want to run an army that'll win, it is what everyone else does.
our point/model count is high so tell them to jump
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?
Though I find the given WE list annoying (2 GG, 2-3 dryads, 2-3 wardancers, 1-2 treemen) I have to say I wouldn't be THAT bothered to compete against it in tourney. That may be because I play dwarfs mostly and it is well known that we are WE worst match up. BUT I would never give a bad rating to your armylist just because it is "cheesy" (this term sucks btw). Treemen are there to be used, GG need to advance to become really good (str4) and your opponents shooting (if any) should be able to match theirs, wardancers go down easily with a Mortar/Hellblaster/Organ or just a tough melee unit. Dryads are great, not much one can do there than to try and outmaneuvre them or wear them off with shooting before the make it across. For treemen I cant say as I've never played against one and the only really tough fight I've seen one giving was against a Blood Dragon Lord where they were fighting for like 3 cc rounds (tough break for the vampire).
Shocking indeed, unless maybe there are like 10 WE players all going for the same armylist in your club :sleep:
"Farewell friend, for I was a thousand times more evil than though..." -=Michael Moorcock "Stormbringer"=-
It really kinda makes me wonder how these guys would feel if someone started dictating their choice of army list to them for no good reason. The unit choices break no rules, nor do they take advantage of any rules. Not only that, in some cases the units you've described are staples of a Wood Elf Army.This is baffling to me. These guys honestly believe that Glade Guard need to be taken in chunks of 15 or more? I fail to see any logic behind this. Anything more than a 10 man unit would require a hill to fire from the 2nd rank (anything more than 10 is nearly impossible to deploy in a single rank). So basically what they're saying is the only way that glade guard can be made not "cheesy" is to have at least 5-10 of them doing nothing for half of the game.For starters 10 man units of glade guard are frowned upon and more than 2 are considered cheesy.I cannot see any conceivable way that this could be considered "unsporting." Ever single player takes the things they need and leaves out the things they don't. It's not unsporting - it's called army building. Glade guard are not a CC unit - they can hold it down sometimes if they need to, but they are meant to be a battery of archers. Given that you'll want to flee the majority of charges that come your way, why on earth would you give them a banner unless you had a specific plan for it?Not taking banners for glade guard considered unsporting.
So for your glade guard, these guys are basically saying "I want you to waste points on a bunch of them that can't shoot. Oh, and I'll throw a world-class hissy if I don't get 100 extra vp's for taking them out."
When I hear people say any specific list is cheesy, what I think they're actually saying is "I haven't figured out a solid way to beat that list yet, so I'll try to make you feel bad for playing it." Or worse yet, "You keep beating me with that army, and I can't admit that you might be a better player and try to learn something from you, so I'll just malign your army list until you make on that's easier for me to beat."
Wood Elves are an awesome army, but are by far not the powerhouse of the Warhammer world. We've got a few tricks to pull and some unorthodox ways of winning games, but we are still 100% beatable. I think the reason people are so quick to call cheese on us is because we, more than any other army, will poke, prod, and provoke our enemies into that one strategic mistake that will let us win the game.My answer is: not at all. I would talk to the tournament organizer first, or even try to resolve things with this club, but I wouldn't let them dictate my army choice to me at any cost. At the very least I'd go to the tournament knowing I wouldn't place well, have a grand time, and know that they're fuming every time they see my army.My question is how much are you willing to change in your list if you know that a lot of a of players of a certain club will be present. My 3000pt (see army lists) list was threatened with a comp score of 0-1 out of 5 by these club members.
Sorry you ran into this, sir. Sounds like a frustrating thing to deal with.
Yeah, it sounds like a load to me, too.
I'd tell them that any equivalent units in other armies must face the same restrictions. No missile units can be less than 15. All core units that can have standards must have standards.
The number of core skirmisher units cannot exceed two. Too bad, skinks.
Only one rare choice at 3000 pts.
I mean, c'mon. Two treemen in 2000 pts might be too much, but at 3000? After all, they're not an 0-1 choice.
I think it's cracked.
ok, these people are nuts. i was in a tourny and i had no complaints in my army.
i had 3 squads of 10 GG. its not unsporting that they dont have a banner. its that they dont need a banner, unless your going to be doing a lot of standing and shooting, then get banner of springtide.
why are people getting angry a min squads of drayds. i run 3 min squads. no one complains about them. they are actually easy to kill. use magic missiles, and they are toast.
treemen are easily taken down by fire magic. trust me, i faced against a person with 4 fire wizards. its not pretty.
if they want cheap list, get 3 squads of wardancers and a huge squad of wild riders, with a wild rider highborn. then let them come talk to me. or better yet, how about 120 drayds. your toast.
i wont reiterate everything else that everyone else said before i woke up this morning but,
this is pretty stupid and you shoud talk to the store/club
Wood elves have to be played in a non standard way to normal blocks warhammer, so people tend to just go crazy when you don't come right up to them and say lets fight CC one unit to one unit, my ranked up unit against your GG! ?!?!?!
in 2000-2250 2 treemen is may be kinda pushing it, especially if you are amoung friends but in a 3000, hell that is a lot of nasty points your opponent could bring too.
I am playing a warbands campaign and this one guy there had to play both his games for the first week's match up against wood elves. he is reletivly new player too but so a little bad luck maybe but the first match up was agaist the girl how had NEVER PLAYED BEFORE, she was doing bc her husband wanted her to. and she won. She did break the 50% shooting suggestion but she didn't know about it and it wasn't required for this, and we had to have our lists posted before so he could have cried foul long ago. but no he plays weird tactics aka try to out run WE in the woods!?!? and so he lost. by the time he played me, the second WE match up for him Oh buddy. (we were using a causualties system so if a guy dies in battle you have to roll a non 1 on D6 for him to be able to fight again) anyway i lost one dryad that way in my first game w.e no sweat he i htink lost 2 black orks and was pissy to no end. so we start the game, my objective is to get more table corters than him, his is to get me down to 50%. well I send my wild riders around him and teasing him, making him reform and not be able to go after me, he breaks his forces up and i use my dryads to out manuever him and only attak his weaker units to get a victory and my objective, no reason to risk losing troops for no big reason. he was complaining how it was a waste of an afternoon, that he didn't realize that ppl were going to bring cheesy armies, he thought it was supposed to be fun (if was we are all apart on one small gaming group) idk maybe he should have tryied to corner one of my units! or prevent me from my objective instead of just compaining that i wasn't engaging him in CC.
sorry for the rant but eh.
Armies: Wood Elves, High Elves
Warbands Campaign 07: 1st
San Antonio Alamo GT
Composition scores are Worthless, IMO. GW already has restrictions on army composition in place. Further restricting them is unbalancing the armies, because certain armies will fair better with certain sets of restrictions.
This is one reason I don't play tournaments. I'm fortunate enough to have a gaming club with fairly relaxed members, and I don't see a lot of point to participating in something where people get that uptight.
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I can sorta see where they are comming from... but not really, and certanly not in 3000 points! Really I would take it up with the organizer of the tourny. This is the reason I also find tournaments frustrating sometimes (not that it stops me from going.) There are a couple individuals who are not uncommon participants of the tournys I am in who just give consistantly bad scores to whoever they play if they lose the game, or if you call them on extra moves (getting a charge with a 12 inch move, even though on your turn you measured 14 inches for shooting and had your oppoent agree with you), or incorrect rules. Not much I can do but give them a low sportsmanship score, but then I'm becoming a jerk in return.
On the other hand I have played against certain armies which I have considered to have a low composition score (however both of them were 40K armies...). However both of those armies did not include a lot of core choices like dryads and GG, or even 2 rares in a 3000 point game.
Honestly, I can see issues like this cropping up more in 40k than in Fantasy - in Fantasy games are won and lost by the skill of the player. In 40k, this is (sadly) not always the case.
I'm with Koosh on this one - ridiculous things like this are what keeps me away from tournaments.
What David said sounds fair to me - restrictions like this should be a two-way street.
Last edited by Cyric the Mad; April 30th, 2007 at 21:13.