Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
me again, from the Considering WE post.
Well, a couple of weeks on, and my mate and I have acquired the rulebook, and he's decided on Orcs and Gobbos. Now, of course, he's mouthing off about all the cool stuff he gets. Things like XX points Black Orcs, cheap Boyz, crazy-cheap Spear Chukkas... I've seen the rules for the Giant, it looks very painful as well.
So, given I'll most likely be using a small unit philisophy (very quickly, something like minimum units of: 2 x GG, 2 x Dryads, Glade Riders, Wardancers, Treekin, Wild Riders, Waywatchers, Treeman, plus a spattering of characters), and given he'll be also using a fair assortment of different bits and pieces, are there any generic strategies that a Wood Elf general should use against an O&G general?
Speaking from 0 experience, it seems to me like an initial burst of shooting at gobbo units could potentially drive some of them off, picking on their low leadership, to create holes in the battle line. Am I right in thinking it will be quite important to attack O&G leadership? Will taking out warmachines be high on the list of priorities, or can they be ignored? Are Black Orcs and Bigguns really as vicious as they sound? Any other general advice that can be offered?
(I'm looking more for generic advice, and partly wondering whether WE will struggle so much with O&G that it might be worth going with the other army I'd been torn between, Empire).
Nah, you can do fine against O&G, especially if he runs frenzied troops. Watch out for giants, though; they chop down Treemen and Treekin like nothing else.
Against frenzied troops, just flee and lead him into the woods or rocks. Archers and Dryads are your friends.
Yes, Black Orcs and Bigguns are vicious. But him them from the side with Wardancers and Dryads after some softening up with archery.
And watch our for O&G magic. Nasty stuff, that.
O&G are one of my harder opponents, but that is mostly because I do poorly against horde armies.
1. Only shoot at poorly armored troops.
2. Drive low ld off the table quick.
3. Destroy their magic and warmachines whenever possible.
4. Use speed to flank stronger blocks eliminating their advantages and potentially giving you free wounds.
Well, Alessio, as a Wood Elf player, this is just something you have to get used to. With some exceptions, your opponent will always have cheaper stuff than you, more troops than you, and will always think they've got you beat by virtue of their army alone - that is, they'll think this until you beat them down. And you will beat them down. In my experience O&G are not easy pickings by any stretch, but they are beatable.Originally Posted by Alessio CavatoreBoth lists are widely varied in their potential, so the only solid answer I can give to this question is the same as any Wood Elf strategy advice - outmaneuver them and set up combats on your terms.Originally Posted by Alessio CavatoreMost of the time I have faced O&G, I'm up against large blocks of Orcs with Goblin screeners. My response to this is alway the same - march block as much as possible. 1 or 2 solid rounds of shooting against a gobbo unit should make the thing flee. After that, don't be afraid to saturate Orc units with arrow fire - make him work for that toughness.Originally Posted by Alessio Cavatore
I always make it a point to go general-hunting as much as possible against O&G. If you can take the general down before he calls the WAAAGH!, you've got a distinct advantage. Giants will hew down trees indiscriminately, but they also fall nicely to a Hail of Doom Arrow or a Dryad charge.
As for War Machines, Spear Chukka's are the least of your worries, since you don't have many ranks to penetrate. I've never been hugely impressed with O&G artillery. O&G magic is something to fear, so be sure to take some magic defense.
In response to your last question, Alessio, I'd have to say that any army can beat any other army with the right strategy. You can ask every imaginable question and collect every single scrap of data, but the only right answer to the "which army" question is "whichever one you think is coolest." Losing with an army you just dig is a lot easier than losing with an army you took because you thought it would win. And winning with an army you think is coolest is vastly more satisfying, in my opinion.
Thanks for the advice guys, although I will say:
Alessio who-now? I think you're making a funny, but don't know who that is, so I'm afraid any joke is lost on me...
All fair points, and I'm certainly aware of the idea of "pick the coolest army". My problem is that they're both equally cool
I guess it's a bit different from 40k, where I come from, where some armies have distinct advantages against others, and while good generalship still matters, with some match-ups you're digging yourself out of a hole before you've even started. Are things a little more balanced around these Fantasy parts?
What you guys have said is basically what I'd envisaged. Take out characters to prevent magic/waaaugh, turn low-ld units into pin cushions so they nick off, and try to outflank the enemy.
I will ask though, are you allowed to say what Orc units are frenzied? I've had a look through their book and don't remember seeing that rule anywhere...
And while I'm at it, do WE have any issues with very large scale games, say 4k points, in terms of the board being too cluttered by units (enemy and friendly) to maneuver effectively? Or do enemies have too much shooting at that level for WE to cope with...
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
I will vouch for that fact. Night Goblins have little to no leadership, nor do they have armour. One thing I will warn you about, however, is the General. If your opponent can place him correctly, a lot of Gobbos will have Leadership 8 or 9 (not nice, as panics are easier to pass).
However, in my experience, Orc Heroes rely on a high Toughness, and decent saves are a bonus. I'd say shoot any lone Generals ASAP, preferably with a HoDA (my opponent runs his General with a Boar). If you get 2 or 3 unsaved wounds, then it's what you'd expect, and he will be dead.
Here are some things I've learnt:
1) NEVER underestimate your self in combat. Glade Guard are, in fact, capable of taking on Orc units head first, provided they get the charge. That said, don't rush them into combats.
2) Be paranoid about all Night Goblin units. Fanatics are cheap, and can easily do lots of damage to our small, fragile and expensive units. Use characters/units within forests to bait them out. (eg, get an Alter Noble in a forest, and within 8" of the unit. the Fanatics will come hurling out, but can't harm you because it's difficult terrain. Cool, eh?)
3) Don't be afraid to flee. It's how you rob your opponent of inches, and control- in a lesser degree- their movement. If you can flee, and get them to run into a forest, do so. It will significantly slow them down, but not you.
4) O&G magic is nasty, being capable of destroying units of dwarves. Respect it. Their Artillery, however, is less then impressive. Watch out for the Doom Diver though, if your opponent is good at guessing.
5) Unless the unit in question is Wardancers, a Treeman, or Tree Kin, always use at least 2 units/characters to charge simultaneously. You will get significantly better results.
6) Never, under any circumstances, get charged, unless a Treeman's getting charged. You will probably die. Always charge your opponent. You will be faster in most circumstances, so use this to your advantage. Treat all Orc units like Knights without the nigh-invulnerable armour save.
There, I hope that helped, that I didn't go on too much, and that you can use this to your benefit.
As for your questions:Savage Orcs are frenzied, it says that in their profile (unless I'm missing something). There's a Magic Item which makes them frenzied I believe.I will ask though, are you allowed to say what Orc units are frenzied? I've had a look through their book and don't remember seeing that rule anywhere...
Thanks AFG, and everyone else too. It's helpful.
But AFG, perhaps you can elaborate on point 3, specifically, what you mean by "robbing my opponent of inches"...