1750 Kabal - My first DE list - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    1750 Kabal - My first DE list

    I'm not sure if I want to do a WWP list or a Raider list, but I started with this WWP list.

    This is my first DE list, so please help as much as possible. Also, I'm looking at using this list for tournaments.

    HQ:
    Archon - 179
    Reaver Jetbike, CDD, Ag, SF, T-Helm and as point fillers Archangel of pain, and Gruesom Talisman.

    Elite:
    Wych Squad - 228
    Wyches - 9 (plasma grenades, Wych Weapons)
    Succubus - Ag, Splinter Pistol

    Wych Squad - 228
    Same as above

    Wych Squad - 195
    Same as above but only 7 Wyches

    Warp Beasts - 75
    5 beasts
    1 beastmaster

    Troops:
    Warriors - 100
    8 Splinter rifles 2 DL's

    Warriors - 100
    Same as above

    Raiders - 224
    9 splinter rifles
    Sybarite - Punisher & T-Helm - WWP

    Raiders - 224
    Same as above

    Heavy:
    Talos - 100

    Talos - 100

    1748 Total

    All help is appreciated.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member necronoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinjin View Post
    I'm not sure if I want to do a WWP list or a Raider list, but I started with this WWP list.

    This is my first DE list, so please help as much as possible. Also, I'm looking at using this list for tournaments.

    HQ:
    Archon - 179
    Reaver Jetbike, CDD, Ag, SF, T-Helm and as point fillers Archangel of pain, and Gruesom Talisman.
    Okay drop the jetbike and the archangel of pain. A hell mask is better on him anyway. Than put him in a raider to start the battle and get him out right away.

    Elite:
    Wych Squad - 228
    Wyches - 9 (plasma grenades, Wych Weapons)
    Succubus - Ag, Splinter Pistol

    Wych Squad - 228
    Same as above

    Wych Squad - 195
    Same as above but only 7 Wyches

    Warp Beasts - 75
    5 beasts
    1 beastmaster

    Troops:
    Warriors - 100
    8 Splinter rifles 2 DL's

    Warriors - 100
    Same as above

    Raiders - 224
    9 splinter rifles
    Sybarite - Punisher & T-Helm - WWP

    Raiders - 224
    Same as above

    My only problem with this wwp army is that there is the only wwps and they are in raiders. I would take large warrior squads of 15-16 to carry it.


    Heavy:
    Talos - 100

    Talos - 100

    1748 Total

    All help is appreciated.

    Looks good for the most part hard hitting overal a good list!
    Prey they don't take you alive

  4. #3
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    Looks fine.

    I do concur with necronoob regarding the portal delivery vessels - your raidersquads. In the fourth ed. they have become too precarious for the job - entangle (
    A footslogging warrior unit is preferable and more resilient. In addition, drop the punisher/Tormentor helmet on your sybarites. Their job is to carry and open the portal. If you do want to give them some CC-weapon, give them a poisened blade. Moreover, you've got five hard hitting CC-units at your disposal already

    In contrast to necronoob, I don't mind the reaver for your Archon. Though, drop the archangel of death and switch the agoniser for a powerweapon.

    Just one question. What will be starting on the table?

    Happy hunting.
    Yours

  5. #4
    Senior Member DranZeR's Avatar
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    HQ:
    Archon - 179
    Reaver Jetbike, CDD, Ag, SF, T-Helm and as point fillers Archangel of pain, and Gruesom Talisman.
    You plan on having this guy flyin around on his own supporting combats where they need them? If so, a jetbike is the best way to do it. If not, do as previous stated and let him join one of your other squads that are most likely going to see combat.

    Raiders - 224
    9 splinter rifles
    Sybarite - Punisher & T-Helm - WWP

    Raiders - 224
    Same as above
    I personally have a problem with this as well. Placing your WWP on raiders is a risky business for obvious reasons. You might want to consider Necro's suggestion with having squads of about 15 Warriors on foot with a Sybarite carrying the WWP.

    Any other things that i would suggest is possibly trying to squeeze a ravager in there somehow. I play alot of Mech armies and only having 4 Dark Lances starting on the table wouldnt be good to me and my terrible dice rolling lol ^^

    In conclusion its a good list and welcome to the ranks of the Dark Eldar
    Armies:
    [40k] - Dark Eldar
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    Thank you everyone for your comments.

    @ DranZeR. Yes, I wanted the Archon in a support role. Flying around where he was needed, or even engaging a key non-CC unit by himself. But honesty, I changed my mind about the bike 6 or 7 times when making the list, and finally concluded to play test it this way and see how it works.

    And about the warriors. I'm so confused about how you guys do WWP's. A footslogging warrior squad is only going to increase the distance of my deployment zone by about 12" unless I get a really rocking fleet roll. You guys deploy your WWP's turn 2 right? So as long as I hide the raider in cover turn 1 to minimize LOS (in case I don't get first turn) fly 12, fleet, then place the Portal, I don't see the danger. Yes, maybe one of them gets shot down or whatever, but that is why I have 2 of them.

    But with all of you guys saying that is a bad idea is really making me wonder...

    Also, I ahve a question. Why do some people talk about a jetbike being able to move 6" in the assult phase? Is this in a book I don't have (like the Wargear book) or is this an extrapolation from other rules?

  7. #6
    Senior Member necronoob's Avatar
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    The thing about putting a wwp in a raider is okay turbo boost turn one(if you get first turn).

    You are putting your wyches, tali, and beasts in the wwp am I correct? There only way to battle is though an open ww those wwps are flying around in a cardboard box. Even if they can only be glanced after you turbo boost 1/2 the time you will need to get out if you take a glance. So you won't be able to open it on your second turn and chances are that your next turn they will be in combat unable to open the portal meaning you lose everything in the wwp to victory points leaving you with 2 sniper squads and 1 archon not good.

    Personal I like to take a heamculus to carry my wwp have him near a warrior squad so he can't be shot and he can help the warriors after the wwp is opened. Face it even if you open your portal on turn 2. The wyches and tali won't come out til turn 3 in which case means that the beasts and the wyches will get a charge almost 100% of the time. Why the enemy is moving closer too most of the time. So IMO wwp are to keep my hard hitters safe til the time is right.
    Prey they don't take you alive

  8. #7
    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    The list was written so that everything is in the WW except the 2 raider squads and the 2 sniper squads.

    Actually, I was not planning on turbo-boosting the Raiders. This is what I was thinking. Turn 1: fly 12", disembark 2", fleet (into come descent cover) Turn 2 place Portal.

    Now the edge of my portal is 21 to 26 inches from the edge of my deployment zone. Meaning that with almost 0 risk to the raider, or the warrior inside, I can put it almost anywhere on the board I want. and my Talos are almost guaranteed to assault the turn they come out.

    However, with the Warriors it looks like this:
    Turn 1: move 6" fleet. (without a good fleet role, I'm unlikely to be able to get far enough to hide behind terrain. Turn 2: If the squad is still alive, which they probably are not if I was not able to hide them, I can either place the Portal, meaning I have only got my stuff about 12" closer to the enemy, meaning there is a good chance my Talos won't assault the first turn out, Or I can move another turn...meaning my stuff doesn't hit the board until turn 4.

    Obviously you guys have been doing this longer then I have, but it seems to me that a raider squad is safer then a warrior squad... assuming the intention is to disembark turn 1 and fleet... which is exactly what I was planning on doing.

  9. #8
    Senior Member necronoob's Avatar
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    But what happens if you have to wait and you opponet gets first turn? You could be pushed off the board in one turn. Heavy weapons blast your raiders out of the sky (not hard) Your sniper squads will take what ever fire power is left after the raiders are destoryed and may run.
    You are starting the battle with 4 targets and with 2 small warrior squads that have isolated themselves it won't be hard for your opponet to wipe them out. This is why you want to take large warrior squads they won't end up alone and it takes more fire to force a moral test. Just losing 3 warriors can screw up your entire plan. If they run your portals will be opened too late and not where you wanted them.
    Prey they don't take you alive

  10. #9
    Senior Member DranZeR's Avatar
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    if your still undecided with either going for the raider WWP choice or the large warrior squad, im sure you can just play test a game with some proxies against a friend to see which you prefer. You could even try both. Have one warrior squad in a raider, and another footsloggin it, each looking to deploy a webway. If its just a friendly play test type of game no need to worry about whether its strategically smart to do so. its just for working things out.

    But as its been said before, it IS safer to have your WWP escorted by large warrior squads on foot as opposed to smaller squads on a raider.

    HOWEVER, if you know for sure your playing a game where your going to have decent cover, hiding two raiders is not going to be a problem and unless your opponent has ordnance and is super lucky, they will probably survive if you don't get first turn. but because there are much more variables to consider when using a raider is the largest reason why most players use the other method.

    But what works for others may not for some, so do some play testing and use whatever works for you. and don't forget to have fun ^^
    Armies:
    [40k] - Dark Eldar
    ========================================
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  11. #10
    Member Gardeth's Avatar
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    I like and agree with your wwp deployment strategy. I cant think of a single game I've played in recently were i didnt have at least 1 decent piece of lvl 3 cover I could hide my raiders behind in my deployment zone. True indirect fire could give you fits but you do have 2 wwp carriers. Dark Eldar is an army that can really reward smart risks and hey even if you carriers get shot down in the first turn by indirect fire you arent auto-entangled (didnt move) and at least one squad should pass a LD 8 pin check which puts you in a similar position as if you started off with a footslogging squad, although a signifcantly smaller one.

    So it looks to me that with just decent cover the risks are small and rewards are great, just be sure to insist on a few pieces of lvl 3 terrain.

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