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  1. #1
    Junior Member Damnosus's Avatar
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    A more thought out 500pt list work in progress (long)

    Yes I am new on this forum, and yes I have already made two posts regarding 500pts lists (the first of which I want to thank everyone for giving input, and the second which failed miserably). However both of these posts were made when I first got the eldar codex, and thus basically was overly excited/crazed to the point of confusion. Thus after more thought I wanted to present the community with a possible new list, and a few questions are eldar army design in general.

    Ok so after looking through a few of the tacticas (sadly the ones in the index are not loading-something about them not being found-they were really great) and reading many of the lists and advice on this site, I have come to several ideas concerning eldar and small armies:

    First, while I do realize that eldar are very unlike marines in that their units each need to support one another, I am assuming that this is much harder to put into practice in small points games (correct me if I am wrong). It seems logical as a small points game can potentially have the same goals/challenges as a big one (on a smaller scale), only an eldar army would probably not have the same number of units to cope support each other as well. What this reasoning has lead me to is to find a definite role for each unit that I want to have in my 500pt list (using the 40k in a flash rules found: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/4...in/default.htm ). I have narrowed it down to 4 categories, or goals that I want at least one unit in the list to be in charge of:

    1: Close combat: I want at least one dedicated close combat unit. Something that will really be able to dish out the hurt once things get tight.

    2: Vehicle Killers: I feel that there needs to be at least one unit that can deal with vehicles. While I do not expect many in such a small points, I do feel that even one could have a pretty big impact. The nice part about these units is that they often can double up by being good against vehicles and my number 3 on this list.

    3: MEQ killers: I used to play 40k during third addition, and I can still remember the hate that MEQ armies, with their 3+ saves, brought forth from me. I absolutely needed something that would stick it to those punks. Grrr...

    4: Swarm Killers: I finally figured that I needed one unit that could fire a heck of a lot of shots so as to whittle down big units of orks/nids so as to soften them up for such things.


    So now it is simply a matter of finding the units to fit the four parts.

    This is the list I have come up with (yea finally):

    5x Striking Scorpions: 80pts
    -this covers my 1st category nicely: lots of attacks, good strength, and nice save will allow them to stick in combat against tougher opponents.

    2x Warwalkers, 2 EML's on both: 120pts
    -This was the hardest category for me to figure out. I didnt want to take an expensive vehicle-it would have taken up too many points and probably would not have gotten its points back (I might be wrong). Also I was not planning on taking an HQ (the army restrictions dont require one) so a wraithlord seemed like a waste (plus I think wraithlords might be a little unfair in such small games). So then my two other choices were a unit of 5 swooping hawks with an exarch with intercept. I have no idea how good these guys would be against tanks and since I know they are not great at doing other things, I dropped the idea. My second idea was a unit of 6 fire dragons. They would have been great against MEQ and vehicles, but I dont like their short range. If I took a transport sure, but otherwise I think they would have been killed too quickly, thus I went with the warwalkers.

    3x Dark Reapers: 105pts
    -My anti MEQ guys. I think they will be really nice just sitting back whittling down units. The long range and the AP3 is lovely. My only other option on the matter was a unit of firedragons, but again the range really got to me...

    10x Guardians, Scatter Laser: 95pts
    -this is both a troops choice and my mass firing unit. I am really unsure if I should trade it for warp spiders, or if I should just keep it how it is. Any thoughts?

    And that brings me to a nice 400pts (great if I want to play a combat patrol). However I need another 100pts. I am stuck as to what to fill it with. I mean should I change some of my choices up, or should I just keep it and find a unit that can be an all around unit (a really cheap one). Where should I take the list? And more importantly how does it look so far? Any advice on possible changes/additions are most welcome. Oh and thank you for reading to the end of this, I know I can be terribly long winded.


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  3. #2
    ex-tookool126 DieHardSaintKildaSupporter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damnosus View Post
    Yes I am new on this forum, and yes I have already made two posts regarding 500pts lists (the first of which I want to thank everyone for giving input, and the second which failed miserably). However both of these posts were made when I first got the eldar codex, and thus basically was overly excited/crazed to the point of confusion. Thus after more thought I wanted to present the community with a possible new list, and a few questions are eldar army design in general.

    Ok so after looking through a few of the tacticas (sadly the ones in the index are not loading-something about them not being found-they were really great) and reading many of the lists and advice on this site, I have come to several ideas concerning eldar and small armies:

    First, while I do realize that eldar are very unlike marines in that their units each need to support one another, I am assuming that this is much harder to put into practice in small points games (correct me if I am wrong). It seems logical as a small points game can potentially have the same goals/challenges as a big one (on a smaller scale), only an eldar army would probably not have the same number of units to cope support each other as well. What this reasoning has lead me to is to find a definite role for each unit that I want to have in my 500pt list (using the 40k in a flash rules found: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/4...in/default.htm ). I have narrowed it down to 4 categories, or goals that I want at least one unit in the list to be in charge of:

    1: Close combat: I want at least one dedicated close combat unit. Something that will really be able to dish out the hurt once things get tight.

    2: Vehicle Killers: I feel that there needs to be at least one unit that can deal with vehicles. While I do not expect many in such a small points, I do feel that even one could have a pretty big impact. The nice part about these units is that they often can double up by being good against vehicles and my number 3 on this list.

    3: MEQ killers: I used to play 40k during third addition, and I can still remember the hate that MEQ armies, with their 3+ saves, brought forth from me. I absolutely needed something that would stick it to those punks. Grrr...

    4: Swarm Killers: I finally figured that I needed one unit that could fire a heck of a lot of shots so as to whittle down big units of orks/nids so as to soften them up for such things.


    So now it is simply a matter of finding the units to fit the four parts.

    This is the list I have come up with (yea finally):

    5x Striking Scorpions: 80pts
    -this covers my 1st category nicely: lots of attacks, good strength, and nice save will allow them to stick in combat against tougher opponents.
    They are good but in my opinion a box of harleys and a shadowseer will do the job much better, also fills the hundred points. but maybe 160pts are a bit too expensive in a 500pt game.....

    2x Warwalkers, 2 EML's on both: 120pts
    -This was the hardest category for me to figure out. I didnt want to take an expensive vehicle-it would have taken up too many points and probably would not have gotten its points back (I might be wrong). Also I was not planning on taking an HQ (the army restrictions dont require one) so a wraithlord seemed like a waste (plus I think wraithlords might be a little unfair in such small games). So then my two other choices were a unit of 5 swooping hawks with an exarch with intercept. I have no idea how good these guys would be against tanks and since I know they are not great at doing other things, I dropped the idea. My second idea was a unit of 6 fire dragons. They would have been great against MEQ and vehicles, but I dont like their short range. If I took a transport sure, but otherwise I think they would have been killed too quickly, thus I went with the warwalkers.

    Walkers are extremely fragile and due to their low BS single shot weapons generally arent a good idea. Maybe drop the walkers and reapers for a falcon? Anti MEQ and anti tank and indestructable= FULLY SICK TANK!!!!!!!! but once again maybe too many points (in my opinion they are guaranteed to make back the points)

    3x Dark Reapers: 105pts
    -My anti MEQ guys. I think they will be really nice just sitting back whittling down units. The long range and the AP3 is lovely. My only other option on the matter was a unit of firedragons, but again the range really got to me...

    10x Guardians, Scatter Laser: 95pts
    -this is both a troops choice and my mass firing unit. I am really unsure if I should trade it for warp spiders, or if I should just keep it how it is. Any thoughts?

    Anti swarm definitely go with avengers, 33 shots from a bladestorm will kill about 15-16 gaunts on average. Plus much cooler models. Warp Spiders are good but in 500pt other units are much better value.

    Im a new eldar player too so I had many of the same thoughts as you. But Hawks were probably born in the Reject Shop so keep them there. Guardians are ok support units, but i generally stay away from them. cant shoot cant assult but half decent meat shields.

    And that brings me to a nice 400pts (great if I want to play a combat patrol). However I need another 100pts. I am stuck as to what to fill it with. I mean should I change some of my choices up, or should I just keep it and find a unit that can be an all around unit (a really cheap one). Where should I take the list? And more importantly how does it look so far? Any advice on possible changes/additions are most welcome. Oh and thank you for reading to the end of this, I know I can be terribly long winded.
    Since its a 500pt game, stay away from the cheesy stuff and go for lots of troops and a vehicle or a destructive squad.

  4. #3
    Junior Member Shuriken Avenger's Avatar
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    soz double post look below


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    Last edited by Shuriken Avenger; August 13th, 2007 at 11:26. Reason: typos

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    Junior Member Shuriken Avenger's Avatar
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    Hi that is a well thought out list.
    heres what i would do with the 100 points.
    1.Add a warlock with conceal to the gaurdians ( think thats 50? dont have a codex on me)
    2.Get an exarch for your SS or your dark reapers

    or if you change your mind about the HQ thing i think that a farseer with guide for the reapers or walkers would be helpfull.

    Hope this helps

  6. #5
    Junior Member Damnosus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuriken Avenger View Post
    Hi that is a well thought out list.
    heres what i would do with the 100 points.
    1.Add a warlock with conceal to the gaurdians ( think thats 50? dont have a codex on me)
    2.Get an exarch for your SS or your dark reapers

    or if you change your mind about the HQ thing i think that a farseer with guide for the reapers or walkers would be helpfull.

    Hope this helps
    My friend and I were talking about the farseer with guide (he used to play eldar in 3rd edition), and he kept saying that while it was good, it probably was not worth 75pts. do you guys think he is worth that much? I mean is guide really that good that it could buy back 75pts in such a small game?

    Unless you convince me otherwise, the exarch and warlock actually sound like a good idea. I am going to wait for a little more input before I change the list at all.

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    Senior Member Steel Nathan's Avatar
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    How about a wraithlord witha wraithsword or shuriken cannon. Or two Vypers with shuriken canons

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    Junior Member Damnosus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natlav View Post
    How about a wraithlord witha wraithsword or shuriken cannon. Or two Vypers with shuriken canons
    You do not think that a wraithlord in such a lowpoints game would be too much (cheesy)?

    And as for the Vypers, what purpose would they serve. I mean i know they would be great at claiming objectives, but what else could they possibly hope to achieve?

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    Senior Member Steel Nathan's Avatar
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    No becaus there is not much to kill the wraithlord with, but I guess the vypers would go.

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    Junior Member Damnosus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natlav View Post
    No becaus there is not much to kill the wraithlord with, but I guess the vypers would go.
    Wait so because there is not much that could kill a wraithlord he isnt cheesy? Where the heck did you get that reasoning.

    And I have no idea what you are saying about the vypers. Please be a little more clear in that respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damnosus View Post
    Wait so because there is not much that could kill a wraithlord he isnt cheesy? Where the heck did you get that reasoning.

    And I have no idea what you are saying about the vypers. Please be a little more clear in that respect.

    If you play with squeemish people who shout cheese at every turn, you may wanna stay away from both wraithlords, waveserpents, fireprisms and falcons since they're hard to kill.
    You also might wanna stay away from harlequins, since they're good in close combat.
    And you'll wanna stay away from firedragons, warwakers and Vypers since their shooting is so mean.
    ..come to think of it, Eldar is a very cheesy race, so you probably should pick something else entirely. A snotling army for example. ..Or just a lot of rippers supported by a squad of tyranid warriors. ..No wait..that would probably be cheese..too many wounds..
    Perhaps if you do imperial guard and field nothing but imperial guardsmen with close combat weapons and laspistols. ..no wait..to high model count..
    Perhaps if you insisted on paying double for them. Yeah, that should do it! So, a few guardsmen with cc weapons for you..that should make for an acceptable non-cheese list. Congrats! (Y)


    On the off-chance that you won't take my expert advice, I have another point to make (well, a few acually..and hopefully somewhat less sarcastic)..

    Unless you're playing combat patrol, unless you're using special house rules, and unless I've managed to skip a rather essential rule..you can't really choose to not field a HQ in a 500pt game, unless you use all those 500 pts on 1 or 2 troop choises. That is, you can't pick a warwaker before a HQ at 500 pts.
    Personally I feel the Eldar is one of the most versatile armies at 500 pts just because of this..because it can field cheeper and at the same time more effective commanders than most other races.

    Second, vypers are good because they combine a firepower per point ratio that is near equal to a warwalker with the mobility of a skimmer. While you could say they cost 50% more if you compare both with shuriken cannons, that is a weapon that is much more viable on a vyper than on a warwalker, because of the vypers added mobility. So a much better comparison of Vypers with shuriken cannons is a warwalker with scatter lasers, with costs the same, but which only has two more shots each round.

    Third, while a balanced list is good you should know that balance needs to work on concert to be any good. For example, if you field the scorpions upfield they aren't really supported by the rest of your army because you can't shoot into melee. So your opponent can take his sweet time devouring those scorpoins with whatever he has available while you don't really have any other unit that can influence that close combat in any way. For all game purposes, they will be fighting their little war alone, cut off from and acually hindering the rest of your army who wanna shoot those units the scorpions are being chopped by. They will of course loose this little war, and you will most likely be behind your opponent in victorypoints as a result. ..Unless you have a grand and cunning plan I didn't think of.

    Fourth, you should stay away from the warlock for purposes of conceal. While conceal is cool as bricks, you could get another 5 guardians for that price. When your original number is 10..well.

    Fifth, your thinking (that you should have something to counter anything) is very good IMO. Warwalkers with EML is especially good because it covers 2 of your identified target areas. If I've understood anything, you're fast on the right track.

    Thanks for posting your list. I enjoyed the read.

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