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I'm trying to work out a list primarily for playing against black templars, but that also could stand on its own with other races. Aiming for 1500 points, this is what I have
216 pts- 18x Warriors
216 pts- 18x Warriors
216 pts- 18x Warriors
140 pts- 5x Immortals
230 pts- Monolith
150 pts- 3x Destroyers
150 pts- 3x Destroyers
1318 pts so far
100 pts- Necron lord+
40 pts res orb+
42 pts other gear as nescessary
1500 pts total
Given that it's templars, should I pull some of the points from somewhere to get more immortals and/or flayed ones? I've also got some wraiths, a tomb spyder, and a destroyer lord kicking around, but I may save those for 2000.
Thanks for the input,
Is it one main BT player you go against, or do you want a general 'anti-BT' themed army? Does he take any terminators?
I think your number of warriors is a bit excessive- I'd take a unit of 10 flayed ones (mainly because I like them, though they should be able to hold up in combat unlike your other units).
I'd also increase your number of immortals- larger units are good for WBB and their AP means they'll kill any scouts that get assigned hits.
Scarab swarms could be good for holding up units, although if your opponent is powerfist heavy they may not be a good investment.
Tomb spyders get taken down by power fists (It's been a while since I've faced BT's, but I assume they still have a lot of powerfists?).
Wraiths probably won't have much impact on power armour- can you target the scouts in the mixed units?
There's also an army list subforum that's probably a better place to post this list- I assume a mod will move it.
Hey Chief! Welcome to LO!
I reckon it'd be better seperate those 3 Warrior units into 4, to better distribute your firepower, and limit the chances of losing a large proportion of them at a single time via one HTH. This will also help you to 'leap frog' your Warriors (one moves forward whilst one shoots long range, then swap and have the movers shoot long range whilst the rest move up etc). Black Templars are known for their large HTH units of 15odd models with characters, you don't need to play the same way You can always run two units together 'like' a single large unit. Main thing is, maybe you have a few too many.
Res Orb would be nice because BT can throw out a large amount of Power Weaponry (Vet Sarges, and their 3 HQ characters). Still, Veil of Darkness will help keep away from HTH with the large Templar units, and also leave the Monolith to continually use it's Particle Whip instead of teleporting (always a good thing).
Overall, you have the right idea. I think you should just make about four units of 11x Warriors, and a Res Orb/Shifter/Phylactery Lord to steady them. Points saved on the dropped Warriors can get you another Lord with Veil and Destroyer Body- Turbo Boost a turn before something hits your lines, and teleport out, leaving the enemy looking at a bucketload of dice in your next shooting phase Great for those armies like Templars that usually have huge, single targets like 15+ men units.
Or if you aren't keen on spending 300+ points on 2 Lords in a 1.5K game, those saved points from dropping some Warriors could get you another 3 Destroyers and a few Warriors, or even pump out another half unit of Immortals.
Either way, you must be aware of the fact that BT can suddenly rush forward to close the distance gap between your respecive armies, giving them a quicker charge ETA then normal- this is why an escape teleport (Veil, or Monolith if you must) is awesome against large HTH units. Destroyers are also able to use their mobility to stay shooting and not swingin' You can probably only manage to stun armour at a distance with Destroyers, so go for max dice against them big units asap.
Good Luck, and may your Ordnance not scatter (and use the template hole to snipe off their power weapons/ characters!)
++Moved to army list subforum
Sorry about starting this in wrong thread, I found the army list thread immediately after posting this. Oh well.
Geep, it is primarily one guy and he doesn't have terminators. At least, not yet.
And looking back I messed up what I was trying to say, that should be units of 12 warriors for the 216 points I listed.
Now if I drop on squad of warriors I could pick up the flayed ones and another immortal, bring that squad to 6 and giving 50 points (instead of 42) for more war gear.
The veil makes me hesitant, it hasn't ever worked well for me. In fact, the last time I used it the lord scattered into impassible terrain, taking a full 12 warriors with him.
Now am I correct in assuming that the particle whip gets the large template (and while I'm on the subject, how do you tell)?
So the possible new list is
10x Flayed Ones
1x Lord w/ 100 pts. gear (maybe d-body, res orb, and veil--if the price is right)
My gut reaction to the new list is that between the Flayed Ones and the Monolith, your Phase-Out is going to be low.
My second reaction is that Flayed Ones are horrible. The lack of power weapons make their cost prohibitive. The best they will be is a speed bump sacrifice unit using the infiltrate. But their worst attribute is that they aren't Immortals...
Against Templars you actually have the advantage of the fact they don't have squad heavy weapons. This means your Destroyers should shake (hopefully kill) any vehicles they bring in the first turn. That leaves you with a Veiling Lord and Monolith to draw you out of melee.
It isn't obvious, but the Necrons are an elusive foe for a footslogging army. With the ability to port one squad per turn through a Monolith plus the Lord, they move pretty fast if you play your movement phas correctly. The problem is not losing site of objectives in missions like Cleanse.
My own style for 'Crons would use another trio of Destroyers. I'm a big believer in playing to Necron strengths rather than covering for their weaknesses. 36" gauss shots x three squadrons is a very nice way to ensure your shooting superiority. Teleportation and the Res Orb solves melee issues.
RecklessFable's Journey to Mediocrity (Painting an IG army)
I've been addicted to World of Tanks lately and neglecting my IG... But it is so... much... fun!
Hi iPwned, I actually liked your initial list better. If you were to take your initial list, replace the Orb with a Veil and puff up the Immortals' squad, you'd have a hard list that would be significantly quick (anything in capable of moving like a bike or teleporting) and very hard-hitting. It's quite possible you'd be able to outnumber your opponent, depending on the opponent.
Against Black Templars what you want more than anything is firepower. They need to be shot at, a lot. There is no need to get into close-combat and die against them. Pop their vehicles in the first turn or so, and make them march into the teeth of your guns.
Best of luck!
WHFB: Dwarfs || WH40k: Imperial Fists, Necrons || WM/H: Trollbloods || BFG: Necrons
RecklessFable- What do you mean by the Flayed Ones reducing phase out? They're necrons and cost the same number of points as a warrior each.
I know FO's aren't liked by most, but I still recommend them for the sake of variety, modelling opportunity and to vary tactics a bit (all shooting is very dull for me, and interest more important than winning). I'm sure iPwned will develop his own opinions about them soon enough.
I like the second list, although the Lord will not be able to have all of that equipment- at most he can have the res orb and veil (good for defense if you go with more warriors like the first list) although a destroyer body and gaze of flame can be good for helping flayed ones in combat (don't forget the Ld check the flayed ones force, and gaze of flame gives -1 Ld).
I thought the Particle Whip gets the smaller template.
I'm in Reckless' boat- never really liked Flayed Ones, never suited me. Still, all shooting can be very dull
I would go for more Destroyers, instead of FOnes.. are you willing to risk a mere 2 Warriors units and stock up on firepower with more Destroyers or Immortals? Or would you bump back the Imm/Dest for the 3rd unit of Warriors/FOnes? Veil is the answer to this- if you are confident to take a charge and tele out, then go for the 2x Warrior units and take more shooty gear. Destroyers are less likely to be caught in HTH, and always shooting- Immortals may get caught out. Going for 2x Warrior units means you have Mono and Veil to get you out of HTH no matter what happens, so they will be chasing you as you shoot them all game. Having 3x Warrior units makes you more resilient in HTH due to more bodies, but it also means you aren't shooting..... and big BT units prefer to stay in HTH because they are not being shot
Either way, I like it- I just think the Veil will really help agiant BT, as they take huge unit sizes, meaning less targets for you- just point and shoot! (kinda)
About the Monolith Particla Whip, yep, it's Ordnance. All Ordnance blast uses the large circle template unless stated otherwise in the weapons profile (Like "Ord Small Blast" or something, I forget) Also be aware that you can 'snipe' models with the hole of the template, unlike every other Ordnance in the game, due to a different AP value of the 'hole hit' (the actual place the Particle Whip 'cracks'). Check out the Necron FAQ by GW, found here~> Linky
Last edited by jONESIE; September 6th, 2007 at 16:41.
I don't think that gaze of flame or the fact that flayed ones force leadership checks will be particularly useful, as the templars are fearless. And thanks for the info on the blast template size. I'm thinking that I'll run with the second list. I'll post how it works out, though it won't be for a while... <sarcasm>Who would have thought that graduate school would use up all your free time?</sarcasm>
When seeking the ultimate question remember 6*9==42 only in base 13.