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  1. #1
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    457 (x8)

    2,000 friendly/tournament

    Hi:

    So after finishing my 1,000-pointer (1,038 to be exact), I'm quickly realizing I'll need to expand because most everyone plays 1,500 or higher at the club(s) where I play, and for that matter, my stuff may perform better at higher point levels (at least I'll have more scoring units), so here's an experiment, to be filled out when I finish my marines (will take a while):

    HQ:

    Lord w/Staff of Light, Res. Orb, Veil of Darkness -- 200
    Deceiver -- 300

    TOTAL HQ: 500

    Troops:

    14 warriors -- 252
    14 warriors -- 252

    TOTAL TROOPS: 504

    Fast Attack:

    5 destroyers -- 250
    10 scarab bases with d. fields -- 160

    TOTAL FAST ATTACK: 400

    Elites:

    6 Flayed Ones -- 108
    6 immortals -- 168

    TOTAL ELITES: 276

    Heavy Support:

    Heavy Destroyer -- 65

    Monolith -- 235

    TOTAL HEAVY SUPPORT: 300

    TOTAL: 1990

    Comments welcome.

    Last edited by Canew; October 26th, 2007 at 17:01.
    Mickey: "You're just making this up as you go along!"
    The Doctor: "Yuuuup. But I do it brilliantly!"

    Check out my WIP thread here (Clicky!)

    The rules (Clicky!) Read 'em, know 'em, love 'em.

    Peace, through superior firepower.

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  3. #2
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    I would not field a single heavy destroyer. It will never ever get to roll its WBB, and it's an expensive one-shot wonder being so very vulnerable.

    I would also not field only a single squad of only six flayed ones. At 2,000 points the enemy will easily eradicate the whole unit in a single turn of shooting they will very likely get before you make it into close combat, thus leaving you with nothing.

    Same problem with the destroyers: a unit of full five takes a lot of enemy fire to become wiped out completely, but at 2,000 points it's entirely possible. Though this is not as weak a link as the heavy destroyer and the flayed ones I recommend using a second squad of destroyers if you field any at all. (And do so, because they are the best unit in the whole game!)

    The disruption fields on your scarabs are a waste of points. Any opponent with a clear mind will keep them away from his tanks unless they are front-line skimmers. And then your scarabs, even if they manage to charge unharmed, will only score a single glancing hit on average.
    On the other hand you pay a whole lot of points for a little psychological warfare. If the enemy uses any effective weaponry (assault cannons, plasma cannons, power fists, nemesis force weapons, etc) he will quickly stomp your scarabs to void. If you drop the disruption fields the scarabs will remain as effective against infantry while you have more points to use on scoring units, more points to boost your phase out number with and less victory points you grant the enemy when he kills that unit of little buggers.

    If the lord will be veiling around with the immortals I suggest you drop the resurrection orb. It won't pay because it is very unlikely they will be hurt by instantkilling (note their high toughness) or power weaponry (you will keep them away from close combat, and even if you are very unlucky you will only be in the assault for one phase, losing maybe two models to power weapons of whom maybe one will recover, not earning back the points for the orb).
    And if you want them as a hit-and-run veiling unit then maybe buy some more of them...


    So: dropping disruption fields, resurrection orb and heavy destroyer leaves you with the 10 points you still have anyhow and a further plus 145 to spare. From those points I suggest you buy three more destroyers and together with those you already have organize them into two squads of four each (even-numbered units are more opportune concerning the number of casualties your opponent must inflict until your unit stops scoring).
    Then if you want to keep your flayed ones you can exchange them 1:1 for warriors (Necron count and points remain the same), do these with at least 2. But I think, since the flayed ones are your only assault unit (apart from the scarabs) and you only have a single one of them I would refrain from fielding them entirely (and invest the freed points in warriors).
    Drop some warriors for two more immortals. You'll need to drop 3 and you will still have enough points left over from the extra destroyers you bought to do the trick.
    Then if you drop another warrior (leaving you with three minimum squads) you can buy a gaze of flame for your lord that will greatly reduce the damage you will suffer if your lord and immortals are unlucky and get assaulted.
    These changes leave you with:

    HQ 475 pts.
    Deceiver
    Lord Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness, Gaze of Flame

    Elites 224 pts.
    Immortals x8

    Troops 540 pts.
    Warriors x10
    Warriors x10
    Warriors x10

    Fast Attack 520 pts.
    Destroyers x4
    Destroyers x4
    Scarabs x10

    Heavy Support 235 pts.
    Monolith

    Total 1994 pts.


    Hope my comments are inspiring and helpful. Good luck with your army and have a lot of fun gaming!
    Regards,
    Archer

    P.S.: About deep-striking (teleporting your lord and an attached unit with the veil) you might want to peak into this thread: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...d.php?t=105736 (Deep-Striking - How to calculate the risk)
    I shall soon post a revised article that summarizes and illustrates my thoughts and calculations expressed in that thread. I will announce any progress there too.

  4. #3
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    22 (x1)

    HQ:

    Lord w/Staff of Light, Res. Orb, Veil of Darkness -- 200

    Very Good

    Deceiver -- 300

    I would drop him. He's too slow, he's way too expensive. Use his points to fill out the rest of the list.

    TOTAL HQ: 500

    Troops:

    14 warriors -- 252
    14 warriors -- 252

    Get 2 more warriors and make these into 3 squads, much more survivable and you get an extra scoring unit. Alternatively, take the other 4 and turn them into flayed ones to make a 10 man squad

    TOTAL TROOPS: 504

    Fast Attack:

    5 destroyers -- 250

    Get at least 1 more and make this into 2 squads of 3, preferably more though

    10 scarab bases with d. fields -- 160

    Good choice

    TOTAL FAST ATTACK: 400

    Elites:

    6 Flayed Ones -- 108

    Perhaps try to bulk these guys up, as at the moment they will get squished by a dedicated CC unit

    6 immortals -- 168

    Again more of these

    TOTAL ELITES: 276

    Heavy Support:

    Heavy Destroyer -- 65

    Either get more of these, or drop them altoghether. All singular necron units are overpriced because you're paying for a wbb you'll never use.

    Monolith -- 235

    Can't go wrong with this thing!

    TOTAL HEAVY SUPPORT: 300

    TOTAL: 1990

  5. #4
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    -6 (x0)

    drop the deceiver, c'tans arent worth the points, usually dont do enough damage, unless you pop a tank, or kill huge point units, which if your enemy is smart enough, wont assault the c'tan and try to phase you out.

    Get 3 heavy destroyers in a squad for we'll be back

    get the d fields off the scarabs, if the vehicle moves at all you only hit on 6's i believe.

    Either get 10 flayed ones or 10 immortals.

    all the previous advice is great.
    insert funny, witty, or wise quote here.

    chaos army
    5/1/2

    necron army
    W/T/L
    29/6/8

  6. #5
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Young View Post
    drop the deceiver, c'tans arent worth the points, usually dont do enough damage, unless you pop a tank, or kill huge point units, which if your enemy is smart enough, wont assault the c'tan and try to phase you out.
    I agree that C'tan are not optimal choices. But I didn't address this issue as I didn't want to change the spirit of the army too much.
    If you want to keep the C'tan, Canew, stick to it. If you think about dropping it: do so. The points are probably really invested better elsewhere. (Two units of flayed ones, for example, or another monolith and some additional warriors...)

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Young View Post
    Get 3 heavy destroyers in a squad for we'll be back
    I disagree here. Destroyers will - for their slightly fewer points - do a better job against very lightly and very heavily armored vehicles and against infantry, while doing good enough against medium-armor vehicles (their squad is bigger and they have a lot of shots).
    As they are also much more resilient for their points I would rather invest in destroyers. Even a full unit of three heavy destroyers is eradicated far too quickly, especially in games as big as 2,000 points on each side.

    Quote Originally Posted by K.Young View Post
    get the d fields off the scarabs, if the vehicle moves at all you only hit on 6's i believe.
    Not quite. As long as the vehicle does not move fast and is not a skimmer (or is a skimmer but immobilised) the chances to hit are higher.
    Nonetheless the disruption fields will not be worth their points against a non-oblivious opponent, so I agree with dropping them (as already written above).

  7. #6
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    -6 (x0)

    well, i find heavy destroyer extremely helpful, for some reason people dont like them, strength 9 in 3 games i played just yesterday, helped me with 3 wins by instant killing tyranid warriors, tau broadsides, and xv8 suits, and terminators.

    Destroyers are very good, but i guess maybe luck of rolling or someway, i just have problems taking out MEQ's. But for tanks, yes, that part i agree on destroyers doing a better jobs at glancing stuff to death. Light vehicles are also easy with destroyers.
    insert funny, witty, or wise quote here.

    chaos army
    5/1/2

    necron army
    W/T/L
    29/6/8

  8. #7
    Blood Axe Gorfang's Avatar
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    93 (x2)

    Hmm, that was a pretty bad Tyranid player. Synapse Creatures (which tyranid warriors are included under) cannot be instant killed. Whoops!

  9. #8
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    457 (x8)

    Thanks all for the replies! This will help me in future games. I have a slightly "revised" list, but first a couple quick comments:

    -- Unfortunately, I have to think of my financial restrictions as I do this, plus I'm trying to build and paint a large army of marines as we speak, so I have little time/cash to build anything else (as it is, I will use plasticard to scratch-build the monolith to save $55 US).

    -- I realize the C'Tan are a dangerous gamble, but as I said, it is substantially cheaper/less time to buy, build and paint, plus I've heard the Deceiver can be quite useful with practice. I'm hoping the same will be true for me. Besides, it's a WAY kewl model, and will serve as a nice spash of golden color in my army of dingy chrome men.

    Anyway, here's the new list. Basically, I dropped the H. Destroyer altogether and the D. fields on the scarabs.

    HQ:

    Lord w/Staff of Light, Res. Orb, Veil of Darkness -- 200
    Deceiver -- 300

    TOTAL HQ: 500

    Troops:

    14 warriors -- 252
    14 warriors -- 252

    TOTAL TROOPS: 504

    Fast Attack:

    5 destroyers -- 250
    10 scarab bases with d. fields -- 120

    TOTAL FAST ATTACK: 370

    Elites:

    6 Flayed Ones -- 108
    10 immortals -- 280

    TOTAL ELITES: 388

    Heavy Support:

    Monolith -- 235

    TOTAL HEAVY SUPPORT: 235

    TOTAL: 1997

    As you can see, I beefed up the immortals, too. I can't help but think I could be doing this better. Would a Tomb Spyder be a good idea? I'm thinking not, since I have the monolith to help keep my guys alive, and it moves a bit too slow to move up the lines into CC or act as a countercharge unit.
    Last edited by Canew; October 29th, 2007 at 22:58.
    Mickey: "You're just making this up as you go along!"
    The Doctor: "Yuuuup. But I do it brilliantly!"

    Check out my WIP thread here (Clicky!)

    The rules (Clicky!) Read 'em, know 'em, love 'em.

    Peace, through superior firepower.

  10. #9
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    haha i didnt know that, stinks for him!
    insert funny, witty, or wise quote here.

    chaos army
    5/1/2

    necron army
    W/T/L
    29/6/8

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