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    Eldar 2000pt Rough list.

    Hey everybody i felt like dusting off my eldar stuff and building a new list. I want to do a guardian heavy army. Id also like to be shooting centralized. Im mainly using the forum to help me get a list together because i need soem input on what is effective. So any help possible would be great. Thanks!


    HQ

    Farseer x2-- i just need them set up to support shooty units (ie War Walkers) so guide and what else?

    Elite

    2x 10 Striking Scorpions-- i want to rig these guys as a counter charge unit or an ambush party. Id like to put them on either flank and use them to pinch off units that get through my shooting wall. So would infiltrate be sufficient or wave serpents?

    Troops

    6x Guardians-- small units with grav platforms, i need a good balance of vanilla weaponry. From back in the day id say half star cannon half bright lance, but things could have changed.

    Fast Attack

    3x Vypers-- seperate units, either with two shuriken cannons or with bright lances for mobile anti tank. Which is better in this army?

    Heavy Support

    2x 3 War Walkers-- one unit with all scatter lasers and one unit with either EML or StarCannons.

    I mainly need help balancing all of the shooting and setting up the anti assault units that are there to screen for my shooting. I really dont want shining spears or really any aspect warriors aside from what i need as counter-assault. So dire avengers i dont really want, but i could be talked into using them. id like to keep everything at pretty much 36". Thanks all!!


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  3. #2
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pervertdhermit View Post
    Hey everybody i felt like dusting off my eldar stuff and building a new list. I want to do a guardian heavy army. Id also like to be shooting centralized. Im mainly using the forum to help me get a list together because i need soem input on what is effective. So any help possible would be great. Thanks!
    Hi, ok I assume by "dust off" you had an eldar army pre the current codex, probably using code craftworld rules for Ulthwe?
    the ubjiquitous Guardian squad, with the latest version of the codex has lost favour, it didnt really take many knocks in the new codex other than the loss of a shot off star cannons and the loss of black guardians, however the changes to the other troop options now means that DA are generally the prefered Troops choices (he says with his entire troops made from bikes or rangers/pathfinders)

    generally this is because DA got a huge boost in the latest codex that means they are superior to guardian squads, this means in particular new eldar players, who didnt live through the glory days of Ulthwe black guardians, or if you are old enough to remember, following fire shuriken catapults with 24 inch range, cant see why you would use guardians, so be prepaired for comments on that line, it depends how flexible you are on the core of your army as to how much advice you want to take on that subject

    HQ

    Farseer x2-- i just need them set up to support shooty units (ie War Walkers) so guide and what else?
    Conventionall a farseer with guide for warwalker units with scatter lasers is the dogs whatsits, it is cheap and damn effective, wouldnt go for more

    there is a school of thought that says doom may be effective for a shooty army but its limited range means it will be rarely used and perhaps its best application is doom squads getting charged by banshees

    there is also and arguement that fortune can keep expensive shooting units (reapers?) going for longer, this is true but does seem a little expensive for its effect
    Elite

    2x 10 Striking Scorpions-- i want to rig these guys as a counter charge unit or an ambush party. Id like to put them on either flank and use them to pinch off units that get through my shooting wall. So would infiltrate be sufficient or wave serpents?
    generally infiltrate (shadow strike) is used, your only problem with this is changing your mind half way through the game means your scorps have to foot slog, but on the whole I would go for shadow strike, also put stalker in there too, the move through cover is a god send

    look at exarch either with claw or biting blade, principly becuse sooner or later you will bump into a dreadnaught or similar, it will also discourage drive by. keep the squad at full strength, not sure I would use 2 squads if you want your army to be predominantly shooting as it is pulling points off your guns, but at 2000 maybe you have sufficent? shrugs!
    Troops

    6x Guardians-- small units with grav platforms, i need a good balance of vanilla weaponry. From back in the day id say half star cannon half bright lance, but things could have changed.
    Gah, ok small units = 10, add warlock with conceal, but get this well, Guardians have pants BS, you only hit half the time, one shot weapons are naff here, bright lances and EML do nto belong in guardian squads, these are guns you are usually pointing at tanks and you want to take them down fast.

    Conventional wisdom says Scatter lasers here, good range plenty of shots, the star cannon is better againt MEQs, but to be honest, even then with 6 squads you will at best kill a MEQ each per turn, you can do the same with 5 pathfinders, or my own preference - bikes, however it is back to that first arguement I mentioned, DA can now pour out shots with bladestorm and act as tarpits for incomming assault units with defend and shimmershield
    Fast Attack

    3x Vypers-- seperate units, either with two shuriken cannons or with bright lances for mobile anti tank. Which is better in this army?
    Rule 1: vypers have pants BS (same arguement as guardians) dont put single shot weapons on them, not ever ever ever
    Rule 2: every rule has an exception : in your list this is a better place for bright lances than the guardians, however,I would look at other places entirely to put AT, it depends if you are prepared to buy new models or you just want to use whatever you have, goo AT sources:
    war walker with 2xBL
    wraithlord with EML + BL
    3 bikes plus warlock with singing spear
    falcon
    Prism tank
    V cannon
    Heavy Support

    2x 3 War Walkers-- one unit with all scatter lasers and one unit with either EML or StarCannons.

    I mainly need help balancing all of the shooting and setting up the anti assault units that are there to screen for my shooting. I really dont want shining spears or really any aspect warriors aside from what i need as counter-assault. So dire avengers i dont really want, but i could be talked into using them. id like to keep everything at pretty much 36". Thanks all!!
    my default army pours out fire at 24-36 inches, in excess of 50 str6+ shots per turn at 1000 points and it gets worse from there, it features no aspect warriors by default, but would be a shift of units (farseer- bike spear guide, 9x bikes w 3 cannons, 2x 3bike sqauds with cannon and warlock with embolden and spear, 3x walkers with shuriken cannon, 3xwalkers with scatter lasers, 1xwalker with BLs)
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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    Haha yes i played Ulthwe, and yes i used black guardians to deliver BL shots.

    It bothers me that taking guardian is sort of taboo now, as i see most Eldar armies not incorporate two DA squads at their core. I dont mind using avengers as last line of defense, but to put my faith in them seems rather misplaced. DA catapults are 18"? that is a stones throw from most CC armies sweeping your line and im not sure i want to put my effective troops that close to the enemies at all.

    With this list id like to keep combat at one round, then fall back and get out of dodge. Could this work?

    HQ
    2x Farseer with guide.

    Elite
    10 Scorpions-- Exarch with claw, Wave Serpent with TL brightlance. (to redeploy when necessary plus the TL anti-tank)

    Troops
    2x 10 Guardians-- ScatterLaser, Warlock w/ Conceal

    2x 10 Guardians-- StarCannon, Warlock w/ Conceal

    10 Dire Avengers-- Exarch w/ bladestorm and shimmershield.

    Fast Attack
    2 Vypers-- 2 shuriken cannons each.

    1 Vyper-- bright lance

    1 Vyper-- bright lance

    (the goal with these is to use the BL vypers to hide and take out armor with rear/ side shots before APCs can get to my line. the Shuriken Vypers can lay down alot of shots along side the DA as my main shooty death line.)

    Heavy Support
    3 Warwalkers-- 2 scatter lasers

    2 Warwalkers-- 2 Starcannons

    1Warwalker-- 2 bright lance

    That should be about 2k.

    Goal is to put Farseer in the back line with the War Walkers and to guide anything that really needs to land a shot, specifically what is prevelant at the moment.Guardians sit behind the DA and fire long distance through them. DA wont do squat unit the enemy is at the doorstep, then they will blade storm 18" shuriken shots along side the 2 vypers with shuriken cannons that will sit with them/on the flank until they need to move into position. The Other Vypers tank hunt and the Scorpions sit and pot shot TMCs, walkers, and vehicles with TL bright lance until they need to move, jump out, and get ready for the charge at whatever lands in the DAs. So any thoughts?

  5. #4
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    Little crazy on the post button their. Yes, our forums are a bit slow on the upload somedays=)

    Quote Originally Posted by pervertdhermit View Post
    Haha yes i played Ulthwe, and yes i used black guardians to deliver BL shots.

    It bothers me that taking guardian is sort of taboo now, as i see most Eldar armies not incorporate two DA squads at their core. I dont mind using avengers as last line of defense, but to put my faith in them seems rather misplaced. DA catapults are 18"? that is a stones throw from most CC armies sweeping your line and im not sure i want to put my effective troops that close to the enemies at all.
    Me, still a HUGE fan of guardians. They still are effective, just as before, but require a slighlty modified approach. namely, more support than before.

    HQ
    2x Farseer with guide.
    Either swap for a avatar (the HUGE staple for guardian squads now, since they confer fearless to units with ONE model within 12", so you can string units to him, while he hides in cover, or stomps up the board.

    Or, keep him, and add the avatar (just a suggetsion, but really crucial for 10 man squads).
    Elite
    10 Scorpions-- Exarch with claw, Wave Serpent with TL brightlance. (to redeploy when necessary plus the TL anti-tank)
    honestly, you will be better off infiltrating them, and giving the WS to the farseer or another unit. The scorps are decent, and have a fair chance of killing light vehicles with their s6 plasma, and the WS should help in the anti tank department, but personally I would drop it for 2 vibrocannons in a unit.
    Troops
    2x 10 Guardians-- ScatterLaser, Warlock w/ Conceal
    either bulk up the squad size, or if you don't use the avatar, drop conceal for embolden. It will keep them from running off the board after lossing 3 (or 2 the next turn). Warlock should have a SS, just in case=)
    2x 10 Guardians-- StarCannon, Warlock w/ Conceal
    see the above note.
    10 Dire Avengers-- Exarch w/ bladestorm and shimmershield.
    there is no reason to have these in your style of list as you already have plenty of short range fire power. Perhaps some pathfinders/rangers, or use these points to bulk up your guardian squads.
    Fast Attack
    2 Vypers-- 2 shuriken cannons each.
    Fine and dandy
    1 Vyper-- bright lance

    1 Vyper-- bright lance
    (the goal with these is to use the BL vypers to hide and take out armor with rear/ side shots before APCs can get to my line. the Shuriken Vypers can lay down alot of shots along side the DA as my main shooty death line.)
    not a bad choice, but you'd be better off with all shuri's on these, and leave the anti tank to other goodness. See below.
    Heavy Support
    3 Warwalkers-- 2 scatter lasers

    2 Warwalkers-- 2 Starcannons

    1Warwalker-- 2 bright lance
    Swap out some of these (or combine them) so you can fit in a vibro cannon set (2). The VC is the best eldar gun these days-hits multiple units, 75% chance on 2 hitting, s5, auto glance on vehicles, and tears up vehicle squads. The warwalkers are great for pumping out serious fire, but I don't think your list suffers from this=)

    Against any hordes or light vehicle list, you should simply swamp them in fire, from your guardians to your walkers and vypers, but if you stumple across some IDF, you will want the vibro and perhaps some a few more ways to kill them. But with your original list, you have 3 things to kill tanks, 2 of which die horribly to twigs and sneezes or insults, and all 3 which will combined hit only 1.75 times a turn. Works out to 1 glance/pen a turn meaning that against multiple vehicles you're gonna be hurting.

    If there is a way to drop a WL in, he gives you 2 shots of anti tank a turn, and can support your guardians if they get assaulted. Plus, if you keep him in cover, he'll draw huge amounts of fire away from your softer stuff.

    just my thoughts, but it sounds akin to a playstyle I use, namely guardian hordes.

    Me, 6X10 man units of EMLs with warlock, SS, and embolden
    2 vibro cannons
    WL with eml and BL
    some WWs with double scatters
    some vypers with double shuricanns
    some scorps to draw attention
    avatar or FS or autarch for the heck of it
    and a dash of salt
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

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    It bothers me that taking guardian is sort of taboo now, as i see most Eldar armies not incorporate two DA squads at their core. I dont mind using avengers as last line of defense, but to put my faith in them seems rather misplaced. DA catapults are 18"? that is a stones throw from most CC armies sweeping your line and im not sure i want to put my effective troops that close to the enemies at all.

    Dude, a bladestorm from those guys will kill every genestealer in range so they cant charge even if they roll 6 for fleet.
    cant help you with guardians, DA are far more effective in this ed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pervertdhermit View Post
    Haha yes i played Ulthwe, and yes i used black guardians to deliver BL shots.

    It bothers me that taking guardian is sort of taboo now, as i see most Eldar armies not incorporate two DA squads at their core. I dont mind using avengers as last line of defense, but to put my faith in them seems rather misplaced. DA catapults are 18"? that is a stones throw from most CC armies sweeping your line and im not sure i want to put my effective troops that close to the enemies at all.
    ok bit, DA will devestate, if your opponent just has normal move, your can ceede ground and shoot every turn, but the reall killer is blade storm. Agaisnt fast opponents, as well as blade storm give the exarch shimmer shield and defend, they will take the wind out of any assault units sails, then tie them in combat allowing your scorps to come and bop them, look lets just maths hammer for min, 10 man SM assault squad, vet sgt, fist, ok? you move up and bladestorm, ignoring the exarch, cos he has shimmer shield, that is 27 shots, 18 hits, 9 wounds, 3 dead, the remaining 7 pile in to you, 3 attacks each? nope, exarch has defend, that is 12 normal attacks and 3 PF attacks, your exarch hits first, 2 attacks, 1 hit, about haalf a dead marine, your 9 other attacks give you about another half a dead marine, that is 1 dead total, now you face 5 marines and the sgt striking back, 10 attacks from the marines, 5 hits, 3 wounds, 1.5 dead avengers, sgt 3 attacks, 1.5 hits/wounds, but the shimmer shield saves some of this so 1-2 dead avengers see, you almost tied the combat on the turn he charged, his squad looses a further 6 attacks next turn , you should probably beat him in combat at the expense of most of your squad without the intervention of your counter charge


    most oldschool ulthwe players are using DA as black guardians nowerdays, this may mean using black guardian models as DA or painting DA black
    With this list id like to keep combat at one round, then fall back and get out of dodge. Could this work?
    Eldar can use mobility to aviod combat all together, however your problem is pulling out of dodge, as above, much better to tie his expensive elite combat units down with tarpit like DA squads
    HQ
    2x Farseer with guide.
    Walkers? fair enough will comment below. tends to be worth singing spears on these, just incase some vehicle gets close
    Elite
    10 Scorpions-- Exarch with claw, Wave Serpent with TL brightlance. (to redeploy when necessary plus the TL anti-tank)
    ah the good old Serpent as a tank hunter, you dont much see this nowerdays, hence the comments from others about infiltration, I taught my son to do it when he was 9 and he still occasionally does, raising remarks like "why have you got those reapers a serpent?" it is fine as is, be tempted to get stalker for the exarch to allow them to ghost through area terrain
    [quote]
    Troops
    2x 10 Guardians-- ScatterLaser, Warlock w/ Conceal

    2x 10 Guardians-- StarCannon, Warlock w/ Conceal

    10 Dire Avengers-- Exarch w/ bladestorm and shimmershield.
    [/quote
    If you go shimmer shield, get defend too (and keep bladestorm)
    Fast Attack
    2 Vypers-- 2 shuriken cannons each.

    1 Vyper-- bright lance

    1 Vyper-- bright lance

    (the goal with these is to use the BL vypers to hide and take out armor with rear/ side shots before APCs can get to my line. the Shuriken Vypers can lay down alot of shots along side the DA as my main shooty death line.)
    as per previous remarks, fair enough
    Heavy Support
    3 Warwalkers-- 2 scatter lasers

    2 Warwalkers-- 2 Starcannons

    1Warwalker-- 2 bright lance

    That should be about 2k.

    Goal is to put Farseer in the back line with the War Walkers and to guide anything that really needs to land a shot, specifically what is prevelant at the moment.Guardians sit behind the DA and fire long distance through them. DA wont do squat unit the enemy is at the doorstep, then they will blade storm 18" shuriken shots along side the 2 vypers with shuriken cannons that will sit with them/on the flank until they need to move into position. The Other Vypers tank hunt and the Scorpions sit and pot shot TMCs, walkers, and vehicles with TL bright lance until they need to move, jump out, and get ready for the charge at whatever lands in the DAs. So any thoughts?
    Seems to have a fair amount of potential, critical things are getting BL kills as you are likely to run out on about turn 3, but that isnt a problem
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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