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Thanks to my poor performance in the recent baltimore GT; thanks in no small part to jet-lag and lack of sleep; I'm doing a major revision on my standard lists. In the past I've gone in a less common direction with plenty of kroot, Ionheads in my heavy slots, and few if any fireknife configs. Most notably I tried out the Vespid and Piranha and was not impressed. This is a more standard, even cheesy, type list.
Shas'El - 97pt
6 man Firewarrior Team - 60pts
10 man kroot squad - 70pts
3 fireknife suits - 186pts
3 fireknife suits - 186pts
6 stealth suits - 180pts
8 pathfinders w/shas'ui - 106pts
Devilfish w/ decoy, TA, MT, SMS - 120pts
Railhead w/ SMS, MT, Decoy, Target Lock - 180pts
Railhead w/ SMS, MT, Decoy, Target Lock - 180pts
Ionhead w/ Burst Cannons. MT, Decoy, Target Lock - 135pts
Shas'el - 97pts
10 Kroot - 70pts
11 Kroot + 1 hound - 83pts
I dunno, somehow I'm not happy to be taking such a ruthless list, but it IS for GT. Any comments on this? I also feel I have a low model count. The 1,750 list I'm more confortable with than the 1,500 overall, mostly cauz of the addition of plenty of kroot.
I made a mistake, nothing to see here move along.
Last edited by spec.ops; November 13th, 2007 at 17:52.
I have some problems with the list mainly the 3 man FK teams, if your running PL/MP and multi then your going to be wasting a lot of shots. I do not like 50% miss rates on any of my units and you only have one Marker light unit, this means only one unit is going to be lit per turn.
If you want to do well at a tourny you have to really max out on efficiency and your lists plus points. Tau have 3 plus points:
(1) Fire power
(3) VP denial
You have three Hammerheads so your not going to lack at anti infantry or anti big armour (AV13/14) but you do lack long range accurate fire and yep you know what I am going to recommend 'The Deathrain' if you take two teams of two Deathrains you will be able to take down transports easily (this is vital in tournies) and the MP is also effective against things like Dreads, Kans, Carnies, Sentinals, Warwalkers etc etc. The Deathrain with TA is nearly 90 accurate and that counts.
The smaller unit size, accuracy and the long range of the MP makes it a lot easier to deny shots to your opponent and Plasma always tempts players into using it and getting close. XV8's are much better used to long range snipe and stay at a distance to deny your opponent VP's by destroying them.
I really think you need to add another Marker light source and the best place I can see is that basically useless 6 man FW squad. You are spending 60pts on it so it should be doing something. Now I do not usually advise ML FW squads but I can see one giving you a bit more versatility and you can pay for it with the points saved by taking the Deathrains.
If your not going to be mobile with these at least make them useful when stationary.
Next is the SMS on the Hammerhead, I really do not like these in tournies. You should be doing one thing with your Hammerheads and thats keeping distance between them and the enemy. Believe me if tank hunters is available to an opponent he will take it. The only way to really avoid 'tank hunter' equipped units is to keep out of range (quite easy on 6X4 boards) and SMS just tempts its use to much, this brings with it the attendant risks brought on by the close range of the weapon.
I would also consider a Helios multi Shas'El, it can really make its points back and with judicious use of the IC status is very survivable. The Helio at BS5 can really be an effective tool for taking down really tough units and characters (always a help in tournies)
Kroot: well I for one would like to see more hounds in your list. I would take two 10 man teams with 8 hounds each, the hounds really do transform this unit and you really need something to handle assault units (something Kroot on their own are bad at). I would advise this as a mus have.
I really think with the 2 HQ, the Ion Hammerhead and two Railgun HH's you should be Ok with anti MEQ. The changes I advise would balance your list out a bit better.
I would really re-consider the 2 XV8 Fk teams, they are expensive and no that reliable.
Hope that helps as a start.
I'm not sure about your issue with the Piranhas, these guys are VP stealing powerhouses that specialise in VP denial. Every fish you buy reduces your abilty to score significantly but Piranhas are a great Victory Point Vehicle and I am yet to finish a game without my Piranhas qualifying as a scoring unit.
Beyond this I really have to endorse the comments made by Rikimaru. Your list suffers on composition and just doesn't grab hold of all of the wonderful flexibility you have available to you. Those 6 FireWarriors are just a free 60 points at the moment and you need to keep them away from your opponent or at least make them a bit more useful or dangerous...
Thats funny about the piranha, every game I used it in at the Baltimore GT it was destroyed without doing anything useful EXCEPT the last one, which was a genestealer list. Maybe its because when I play my opponents usually agree on mostly size 2 terrain so eventually decide they need to take care of the Piranha, but it almost never survives to score.
I had a real lack of MEQ killing power I felt, and previously fielded a pair of Deathrains. They did pretty well, but I really REALLY needed something to kill 2+ armor especially against that Lysander list -_-. Generally I dont plan on hitting half the time as againt any hard targets I'll be using my pathfinders to light those targets up, which makes full FK teams really deadly In my opinion, otherwise I would take another Stealth Team as they seem to really perform for me.
6 man FW team. Well I had a mounted 12man, but it seemed very often I had to mount them up, and it wasnt safe to pull off FoF attacks. Making them a smaller unit allows me to tie them to terrain and give up very few VP's should they get charged. They almost certainly wont survive a charge either so I would want to use them more like a rapid firing speed bump.
SMS I dont usually take on my hammerheads, but I thought the extra range would allow me to better keep distance than burst cannons. Its interesting that you would say these would do the oppisite.
I dont think I could make a second pathfinder squad useful, and I was not particularly impressed by my Skyray. It did its job usually, but often I'd rather just have an extra gun than those missiles and marker lights.
Hounds, well I like hounds. I used these as well in my list. They were alright when the situation arose to get stuck in, but those situations were few. I feel smaller kroot squads are not only more flexable less cumbersome than a large squad including hounds. It was really difficult to fit 20 models in against a handful of terminators. But that squad DID shoot down a Skyray in one match which was AWSOME let me tell you!
Lastly, I fielded a Helios commander. I didnt like him at ALL. Generally couldnt get close enough without exposing him so I'd rather have the two shots at long range.
So it seems like for the most part what your telling me is to go back to my origional configuration. I think I'll play a few test games with this list I have up here at 1,500 and let you know how it goes if you check back in a few weeks.
On a side note, Im gonna try and figure out exactly what most people do for terrain in a seperate post. Terrain in a big factor when designing an army I feel, but its hard to plan for huh?