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I am normally a Blood Angels player, but I decided to try out something new, and start an Eldar army - so this is my first foray into the Xenos realm. I am trying to plan out what units to get, so this list is very flexible. Since I am used to playing heavy infantry assault oriented lists well supported with vehicles, I thought I would go for something completely different - a light infantry based shooting oriented list with few or no vehicles. I read through the codex and browsed through the forum, and it seems like Ulthwe and Alaitoc fit this description the best. What swayed me towards Ulthwe was Eldrad, who seems to have some amazing abilities - so the list is built to capitalize upon him. Please critique heavily, as I am only passingly familiar with Eldar units. The only unit I am really not interested in is a Harlequin Troupe - any time anyone complained about my Death Company, all I had to do was say, "Hey, it could be worse... I could have taken Harlequins!" And that always ended the complaining right away. Anyway, here is my list. It is meant to be a finesse, thinking list, as opposed to a Blood Angels style "ram your fist down your opponent's throat approach," which has gotten tiresome for me.
Ulthwe - 1500 points:
Guardian Squad x11 w/ EML, Warlock w/ Embolden, Spiritseer, and Singing Spear - 147
Guardian Squad x10 w/ EML, Warlock w/ Embolden, Spiritseer, and Singing Spear - 139
Warp Spiders x10 w/ Exarch w/ Dual Spinners, Power Blades, and Withdraw - 262
Swooping Hawks x8 w/ Exarch w/ Sunrifle, Skyleap, Intercept - 215
Wraithlord w/ Brightlance, EML, two flamers - 155
Wraithlord w/ Brightlance, EML, two flamers - 155
Dark Reapers x5 w/ Exarch w/ EML, Fast Shot - 217
The two Guardians Squads are configured entirely to support the two wraithlords, one guardian squad with one wraithlord as a dedicated pair, each pair starting in a piece of terrain. It seems like most people take Scatter Lasers, but I want them to help the Wraithlord take on tanks and heavy infantry, or they can both fire their plasma rounds at light infantry to try and pin them. Beyond that, they prevent wraithsight, and shoot at any infantry that tries to get close to mob up on him. The Embolden is there to make sure they don't run away and leave him stranded. The singing spear is there in case a monolith deepstrikes in (crazy necrons who hide their two lords with resurrection orbs and two necron warrior squads in their two back corners, and then deep strike three monoliths into your lines - now THAT is cheese, which I saw at the Baltimore GT).
Eldrad uses his abilities to redeploy my heavy support choices to get better targets, or just to trick my opponent into spreading himself out. Then he uses whatever power I need at the time to help my units - like using fortune and guide on the reapers or wraithlords, eldritch storms to flip vehicles around to take rear and side shots, mindwar to take out those pesky powerfists (it almost feels wrong to say that...), or doom to help take down nasty things like... the Death Company (hurts to say that).
The warp spiders and swooping hawks are there to annoy the hell out of my enemy, give me much needed mobility (my brother plays mech Tau with two stealth suit teams, so I need something fast), and to take objectives. In fact between Eldrad and these two units, I look forward to really messing with my opponent. And they should be good choices for fighting orcs, once their new codex comes out in December, and I start seeing lots of orcs by January. The flamers on the Wraithlords should be good for this, too.
The Dark reapers are there because many of the people I play use space marines, especially black templars (I am tired of my Blood Angels getting beat up by them in a big scrum - Emperor's Champion w/ preferred enemy vow - so I am really looking forward to gunning them down.)
So that is the plan. And as a side point (as if I haven't given you enough already), if I expand to 1750, I am looking at taking Maugan Ra to both bolster my shooting and give me some counter-attacking ability, and then to fill out the Swooping Hawks Squad to 10 and get one more Guardian for the second squad to fill it out to 11 (12 with warlock, since even numbered squads are more efficient - why couldn't they have allowed the reapers to take 6 as well?). Or barring Maugan Ra, I could take an entire squad of tooled out Howling Banshees - better potential at hth, and a scoring unit, but useless for shooting.
Thanks for the help, and blast away.
Welcome to the more delicate and precise side of warhammer 40k! First things first, i dont know what it was like on the space marine forums but try not to post your list 3 times lol. But no big deal. You have to learn though that eldar are not to be taken for general purposes or double roles, rather every unit must be taken for an exact purpose.
It is for that reason that EML are not generally taken on guardians. People typically take scatterlasers and starcannons because they are better at dropping troops/ light vehicles besides they have multi shots. Guardians dont have BS4 like marines so they dont hit more often then not. Multi shot is key 8Y While on the topic of guardians, Ulthwe is supposed to be comprised of alot of troops and not many aspect warriors. Your list however only has two untis of guardians!!!
So, you should drop Eldrad out, i know you like him alot but hes a lot of points for 1500pt list. Start with a farseer w/ guide to reroll crappy to hits.
Next look into alot of troops, this is usually found in guardians and Dire Avengers. Dire Avenegers are very popular today for there bladestorm and short ranged death. I personally, and ultwe is supposed to, like guardians to do their bidding. So get at least 3-4 troops and set them up with scatter lasers and/or starcannons depending on what youll be fighting. Warlock with embolden is good, and singing spear helps with short ranged anti tank screening (its only 3pts).
its ok for you to have one fast screening unit, i prefer spiders, but take one or the other 9hawks or spiders) and drop the other for more guardian based vehicles. try vypers out, i know you said you didnt want vehicles but these things are like landspeeders...sort of... but are much better as they have better weaponry. If you dont want these then move on and save the points for heavy support.
heavy support! i suggest dropping the wraithlords as they dont fit the fluff. Take warwalkers instead. These guys rock. They shoot...alot... insanely aloy actually. A unit of 3 with two scatterlasers each is only 180pts and gets 24 str 6 shots at 36" plus re roll to hit with guide from farseer!!
im a big fan of dark reapers so i like them, exarch is good too.
You need to fine tune list so you fit the ulthwe nitch. look for a unit of Dire Avengers and alot of guardians backed by warwalkers and led by a farseer. Eldrad is jsut too pircey man.
I, personally, am a big fan of Eldrad. He's very flexible and ulike regular farseers, is T4 so he can't be insta-killed by perils of the warp. Unfortunately, in a 1500 point list, he almost takes up a sixth of your total points. Also the fact that you have less units for him to support makes him less effective. If you really want to use him, I'd save hime for a 2000 point list.
I agree that, in terms of fluff, you need more guardians, and that scatterlasers would be the best buy for them (though I still haven't lost my love of starcannons, I'm running out of effective places to put them).
Hard to go wrong with the BL/EML wraithlord, though I've lately been using falcons more and more. For your list its hard to say which would be more effective (though wraithlords don't fit the fluff as well as, say, warwalkers or support weapons), so that becomes a personal preference.
I'd drop the swooping hawks. Not sure what for, but a second unit of warp spiders would probably be fun. Not very fluffy, but definitely fun. For fluffy fast attack, you'd want vypers or jetbikes (though jetbikes are technically troops).
I've also heard of people using the dire avenger rules to represent Black Guardians. Seems to make sense but I'm not sure if that's legal for tournies.
Really good feedback. The only thing I would disagree with is the negative take on Eldrad. I can definitely see your point about his high point cost, and how specialization is key for Eldar. But I would think that in an army of specialists, it would be nice to have an HQ, who serves in a dedicated support role, who can deal with a variety of issues. I love the fact that he can deal with so many contingencies. And I also think that it is incredible that he is the only Eldar Psyker who won't fry himself with one bad set of perils of the warp rolls. I have an amazing talents for rolling 1's, so this greatly concerns me. Okay, here are some changes to my list. What do you think now?
Warlock Squad on Bikes x4, Destructor x2, Embolden, Enhance, Singing Spears x4 - 232
Dire Avengers x10, Exarch w/ PW & Shimmershield, Defend, Bladestorm - 177
Dire Avengers x10, Exarch w/ PW & Shimmershield, Defend, Bladestorm - 177
Warp Spiders x8, Exarch w/ PW, Dual Spinners, Withdraw - 218
War Walkers x3, Scatter Laser x6 - 180
Wraithlord w/ Brightlance, EML, Flamers - 155
Heavy Weapon Battery x3 w/ Vibro Cannons - 150
Okay, no one actually suggested the warlocks, but I thought they were fluffy, can swoop in to take objectives, and they mitigate my concerns about a lack of AT. My brother plays Mech Tau, and I have no desire to get stomped on over and over again.
Otherwise this isnt a very fluffy list, ulthwe was based around lots of guardians and seer councils. Not aspect warriors. Harleys are not that bad, could be easily countered by a fast shooty unit like FoFing fire warriors.
Signed Sealed Saint
Fortius Quo Fidelius
The seer is Eldrad. I just didn't put a point cost next to him because I didn't think I was allowed to, in accordance with the Forum rules (you can only put his one specific point cost, as opposed to being able to write a combined cost for a unit).
I put in Dire Avengers because it seems like most people are using them to represent the old Black Guardians, from their last codex, in the new Ulthwe lists. Apparantly Guardians used to be a much more viable option, but now they are a signifcantly worse option than Dire Avengers, point for point, who have a better BS, range, armor save, and abilities. And I guess Dire Avengers more closely approximate the capabilities of the old Black Guardians. So admittedly I may be out on a limb here, because Dire Avenger Squads cannot take Warlocks, but it seems like a common ciritique for every Ulthwe list on the forum is to take Dire Avengers instead of Guardians, and model/paint them with the Black Ulthwe color scheme.
Although I am tempted to take Guardian Squads just so I can get two more Brightlances in my list. Everyone recommends taking them with Scatter Lasers or Star Cannons, with the mantra: "multi-shot good, single shot bad." But now that I dropped a Wraithlord for Warwalkers with Scatterlasers, I am particularly worried about AT. That was why I entertained the idea of a bike based Warlock Squad - they have an extremely solid AT capability - albeit at quite a cost. But I don't know how else I can get some AT in there. Without them, I am totally reliant on using my Vibro Cannons to take glancing shots, my Wraithlord to take the penetrating shots, and my Warp Spiders to get around behind something without getting ripped apart (since most of my army will be sitting back shooting, and not running amuck with the spiders). My only other recourse is to use Eldrad with Eldritch storm to try to flip a vehicle around, and get rear armor shots with my war walkers, but that is pretty iffy.
I am used to having an army where every single unit I employ, except the transport, has some type of AT ability. And I am always very happy about this, because it is extremely rare to ever face someone who doesn't use a few, if not a bunch. And I think I would get taken down pretty easily by mech Tau and mech Eldar lists. And Space Marine and IG lists always use a handful of vehicles. Do you find that non-mech Eldar lists have trouble coping with vehicle heavy lists?
Last edited by x01848m; November 17th, 2007 at 16:12.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone