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  1. #1
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    Having trouble shrinking to 1K

    I'm pretty happy with what I evolved my old Eldar force into for 1500pt and2000pt lists. But it features units what work together. The scorps work because they're backed up by spears. Spears work because they're fortuned and could also get falcon/fire dragon support. The fire dragons in the falcon work because the melee units can reliably charge on turn 2 so the falcon doesn't get shot with plasma in the rear or anything like that. And DA fit because with the other units pressing in they tend to be fairly free to move in and shoot.

    Anyway the result is I'm having trouble scaling down to 1K. A solo unit of scorps or spears just doesn't operate right for example.

    Anyway I've been folling and playing a bit and I'm thinking of the following.

    3x Vibro cannons. I only have one but I could bit order two more for my support platforms. I'm finding 1K games often hinge on vehicles, and it gives multihit and pinning. However they can't move and I worry about underperforming or having to put them in a vulnerable spot.


    2x falcons with scatter,cannon, holo, stones

    2x guardian units with EMLs. OK this unit is because they can deploy deep, spend the game running to stay alive and have a chance at dropping vehicles. Range is a big part of the choice over a scatterlaser. I would like to have the option to avoid heavy bolters and other 36" weapons while still being a threat.

    farseer with bike,spear,guide

    That leaves 172 points

    Options I was thinking

    3rd EML unit. Another long range squad that can fire first turn
    scatter laser vyper I find one of these can snipe around corners fairly well if falcons are there to draw fire
    12 poitns to play with

    or
    6 jetbikes 2 with cannon.
    20 points to play with
    that would give one or two units that are quick and good at grabbing objectives and maybe harrying units.



    Stuff I have.
    full squad of scorps
    fire dragons
    dire avengers
    spears
    farseers and warlocks that I could throw on a bike if I saw them in half etc.
    another vyper
    range of weapons to mix around.

    In particular I worry about the list going up against MEQ. I miss the days of "And they shall know no armor save".


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  3. #2
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    Hmmm, if you can afford to go out and buy some more models I'd like to see some pathfinders in here. You don't have much able to drop elite units (well, 2 pulse lasers admittedly).

    If you don't want to go out and buy them then use the jetbikes, also drop 1 vibro-cannon and add in a vyper to support them. If you use the jetbikes then swap guide to doom to help them kill.

    And I know I always say it but a Jetbike Farseer /w mind war, singing spear and runes of warding is simply amazing. :happy: (I won't stop until the world uses them!)
    Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!

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  4. #3
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    By Elite I presume you mean 2+ saves?

    That is true, and when you get down to it I don't much like it. I don't know so much about pathfinders. But maybe I should just break down and try the mindwar thing. I miss that from Ulthwe days.

    What do people think about putting starcannons on the falcons? Fewer shots, but it matches the AP of the pulse laser.

  5. #4
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with starcannons on falcons, just hard to convert it to get a starcannon on it (it comes with the scatter laser).

    By elite I mean anything which costs more than the basic trooper.
    Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!

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  6. #5
    Senior Member MurekZar's Avatar
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    Just throwing some ideas...

    I think the 3rd vibro-cannon is not really necessary, especially if the priority targets of this unit are vehicles (no +S benefit here).

    Then you have 222pts to play with.

    I suggest 3 Vypers with Scatter Laser (180 pts), and maybe a Warlock with the cover save power (what's the name in English ?).

    The idea is obviously to force your opponent to make choices between firing on Falcons or Vypers, thereby either increasing the effectivity of Falcons, or having Vypers left free to roam and kill from range...

    The Warlock, well... what can you buy with 40pts+ ? It would give a Guardian squad the ability to move out of cover and still have a chance to survive... Embolden may be a more useful power, if you play on tables with a lot of cover.

  7. #6
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    Since I don't have wraithlords or intend to charge in with the guards warlocks, who cost as much if not more than half the unit, feel a lot like paying for the premium service plan on a cheap computer.

    But maybe 3 vibros is overkill. I'm thinking of trying

    2x falcons with holo,stones,cannon and stargun (allows me to get AP2 weapons together on a unit, but I worry about this many points going to the shooting phase of a model that loves to be shaken. I'm hoping that other units shooting can mostly down the things that would be shaking them.

    2x vibrocannons at least they should be fun to try

    2x EML guards (something I don't have to hide)

    seer with bike, spear and mind war. I'm liking the idea of mind war more and more since it gives me another option for getting at those 2+ save models. I relish the thought of popping broadsides surrounded by their shield drones.

    scatter vyper

    EML vyper(I had a few points left to play with, I'll see how this works)

    3 jetbikes with a cannon. This unit can be used for shooting or grabbing objectives, but another use is being able to turbo boost around and act as a fire screen for the seer if I need to get him somewhere I don't want to or can't put a falcon. They are fragile, but they aren't too pricey when you get down to it.

    999pts

    Anybody have a better idea for shuffling the points? I'm tempted to run 2 mw farseers but that might be too much. I'm also worried about being able to hide all the fragile units, but I'm hoping vypers can get by in the falcons shadow.

    An alternate list might be scrapping the bikers and the two vypers to put fire dragons into the falcons, but I'll try it without. At least the falcon transport abiltiy could be used to whisk away guardian units before they dip below 1/2 strength.

  8. #7
    Senior Member MurekZar's Avatar
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    Weapon choices

    I understand the attraction of EMLs, but I'm concerned about their effectivity as one-shot weapons in low BS units (Guardians, Vyper). Here's a suggestion :

    - drop the EML on the 2nd Vyper, replace with Scatter Laser (-10 pts)
    - upgrade one of your Guardians' weapon from EML to Star Cannon (+10 pts)

    This way you get more shots all around... The Vyper can threaten vehicles (go for side / back armour in later turns), the Guardians' threat to MEQs is enhanced.

    Ideally I would like to switch your other Guardian EML to Star Cannon too. Can't find the points, though.

    I think that with this suggested change you force tougher choices on a MEQ enemy, and this should increase your Falcons' effectivity. What I have in mind is this : in the first turns offer the Guardians + Star Cannon as "imminent threat" to MEQs (because of their lower range they should not stay as far back as with EML), to sponge off a shot or two from your Falcons.

    Just my two bits :-)

  9. #8
    Senior Member Gingerfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordLink View Post
    Nothing wrong with starcannons on falcons, just hard to convert it to get a starcannon on it (it comes with the scatter laser).
    Mmmm? my falcon came with every single weapon possible..... includding 2 Pulse lasers and i have a star cannon on mine . with a painted up scatter for horde armys lol
    I have no faith in humanity what so ever....

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    Sometimes speaking the truth is heresy. In which case, you must burn. ;)

  10. #9
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    Honestly I just can't bring myself to put a starcannon on the guardians. It takes 210pts of guardians with starcannons to get the same number of starcannon hits per turn as my 90pt unit of black guards did before the new codex.

    Also with a nerf that vicious it's a fair sign that using them that way isn't a good deal. Possibly using them at all isn't a good deal......... But I'm hoping their ability to win firefights at 37+ inches and the ability to kill things that can threaten falcons will prove worth it.

    @gingerfish I believe for a short time they were selling wave serpent kits that not only had all the wave serpent weapons but also had all the bits to make a falcon. Maybe you got that?
    Or maybe they decided to toss a waveserpent weapon sprue in with the falcons. That would be nice. About time too.

  11. #10
    Senior Member MurekZar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Honestly I just can't bring myself to put a starcannon on the guardians. It takes 210pts of guardians with starcannons to get the same number of starcannon hits per turn as my 90pt unit of black guards did before the new codex.
    I understand. I must say I don't use Guardians anymore...

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