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  1. #1
    Member D4RKN3SS's Avatar
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    Help with a 1750 pts list

    Ok so this is the list at the moment

    Eldar Autarch (145)
    Jet Bike
    Laser lance
    Reaper Launcher

    Troops
    Jet Bikes x 6 (207)
    Shuriken Cannon x 2
    Warlock
    Enhance

    Jet Bikes x 6 (207)
    Shuriken Cannon x 2
    Warlock
    Enhance

    Rangers (120)
    Path finders

    Fast attack
    Vypers x 2 (160)
    Star Cannon x 2
    Spirit stones x 2

    Vypers x 2 (170)
    Bright Lances x 2
    Spirit stones x 2

    Shining Spears x 3 (167)
    Exarch
    Star Lance
    Skilled rider
    Withdraw

    Heavy
    Fire Prism (175)
    Star engines
    Holofields
    Spirit stones

    Dark Reapers x 5 (207)
    Exarch
    Fast shot

    Falcon (190)
    Scatter Laser
    Holofields
    Star engines
    Spirit stones

    Total = 1748

    So they had their first fight vs... some DA, playing a cleanse mission on gamma, with the DA's taking first turn, with little bits of terrain floating around with some bigger pieces around the edges.

    Turn 1 I get invaded by some deep striking termies straight in to my front line consisting of all the jetbikes and the HQ, with the spears following behind. The termies and bikes proceeded to kill half a unit of jetbikes and a star cannon vyper, immobilising the other. My Turn consisted of trying to hide every thing else apart from those near the termies, in which I shot at and then assaulted with the HQ and shining spears. (The shining spears were gone by turn 2 as was the HQ after being locked in combat with s3, I did mange to reduce it down to 2 termies, but for a lot of losses). The jetbikes then dispersed out and managed to take down some bikers and 1 or 2 marines.

    Turn 2 was horrible, a multimelta shot from an attack bike took out the prism, which missed its first shot in turn 1 due to dusk and dawn, my falcon and the reapers it had dropped off took a hit and I lost all the reapers to a Land speeder with ass-cannon and heavy bolter, the falcon still chugging along but still unable to hit the big side of a barn. The jetbikes shot at and assaulted the attack bike, and maybe took some paint off . . . . which then proceeded to get wiped out buy the ensuing combat into turn 3.

    To cut it short, by my turn 3 I had 1 ranger left, 2 lance vipers and a falcon left. The lances got nuked and the ranger got taken out by and angry dread. The falcon got plasma cannoned and I was left with nothing on the board, after killing maybe 500 pts worth of DA's in return.

    So as I play against mostly marine armies, what could I drop'n'swap to be more effective ? I do concede that I made some foolish mistakes, but I found the list to be to fragile and unable to really make an impression against the DA's.

    I've run a similar list but at 1500 pts that had some Banshees and an Autarch in a wave serpent, that seemed to love ripping power armour apart. . . I also have scorps etc that I can take, as well as some d-cannons, dragons and some farseers and warlocks, either on bikes or walking and an extra falcon I can take. This army will also end up being used as a tournie army for a couple of local events.

    So I ask the powers that be for some wise, uncensored advise for a eldar noob that desperately wants to take these marines down a notch or 2.

    98% of the teen population has smoked weed, if you are the 2% that hasn't, and blindly believe everything you read on the net, then put this in your signature.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member MurekZar's Avatar
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    I do not qualify as "power..." ;-) but let me have a go... I don't have my codex at hand, so I cannot work out all point cost options (at my a a a age, you know, memory is not what it used be... ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by D4RKN3SS View Post
    Eldar Autarch (145)
    Jet Bike
    Laser lance
    Reaper Launcher drop it; it's a heavy weapon; been debated; result is that since it is not mounted on the (jet)bike the Autarch would have to stay put to use it.

    Troops
    Jet Bikes x 6 (207)
    Shuriken Cannon x 2
    Warlock
    Enhance Mmmmh, are you sure you want to throw them in close combat ? I'd rather take Embolden, because failing morale tests comes easy to these units, as soon as they've lost 2 guys to enemy shooting...

    Jet Bikes x 6 (207)
    Shuriken Cannon x 2
    Warlock
    Enhance

    I'd like to see a Farseer on bike with this list... You may drop a biker Warlock to pay for part of its cost. Then use points saved on Vypers / Star Engines...

    Rangers (120)
    Path finders
    Yep! Look this up (if not done yet) : http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...d.php?t=108172 (Rangers Worth it?)

    Fast attack
    Vypers x 2 (160)
    Star Cannon x 2
    Spirit stones x 2
    I do not like units of two Vypers. Either use two units of 1 or one unit of 3 with a Guiding Farseer on Jetbike. The Spirit Stones should be dropped, IMHO : I like to keep the Vypers really lean, as they are too weak anyway to withstand real attention from your enemy.

    Vypers x 2 (170)
    Bright Lances x 2 Too costly and too risky (single shot weapons on low BS). A "traditional" mech solution is to have TL BL on Wave Serpent. Another possibility is BL + EML on a Wraithlord, but this may not fit your army's spirit. Or... Fire PrismSSSSS ;-)
    Spirit stones x 2

    Shining Spears x 3 (167)
    Exarch
    Star Lance
    Skilled rider
    Withdraw
    A classic. I'm working on one unit these days (too slooooowly !!!)

    Heavy
    Fire Prism (175)
    Star engines I would drop them. Everywhere...
    Holofields
    Spirit stones

    What !? A lone Prism ??? I would recommend switching your Falcon to Prism, or your Prism to Falcon.

    Dark Reapers x 5 (207)
    Exarch
    Fast shot Crack shot is better from a mathammer point of view against MEQs. And it enhances the DR's threat by negating cover saves on your best BS shooter. You can consider reducing to 4 DRs, that does not change substantially the point effectivity gainst MEQs.

    Falcon (190)
    Scatter Laser
    Holofields
    Star engines
    Spirit stones

    Total = 1748
    Was it your first battle with Eldars, or just your first battle with that list ? Anyway, Eldars are difficult to play, requiring good army design and cooperation between specialist units. We simply learn from our mistakes. I learn a lot... ;-)

    Hope this helps !

  4. #3
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    Agree with MurekZar

    HQ: Use a fusion gun instead for a little tank hunting. Only the reapers and scouts would deploy in escalation games so the autarch strategic reserves bonus really helps.

    Bikes: Get embolden and a spear for each warlock.

    Pathfinders: Ditch them for points. 5 cheap fire dragons in a falcon could be useful instead.

    Vipers: 2 Shuriken cannon each and no other upgrades.

    Shining spears: Need 5 man units here. I would prefer to see another unit of these, perhapse drop a viper and merge the three into one squadron to free a fast attack slot. You can tone down the exarch if you need the points. Withdraw is a must, the other bits are just nice.

    Tanks: Drop star engines. I like starcannon falcons but scatter lasers seem more popular. Underslung shuriken cattapults are good for falcons and ok for prisms if you have points left.

    Reapers: I like 5 chaps with no exarch to keep the points down.
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  5. #4
    Member D4RKN3SS's Avatar
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    OK revise time.

    Eldar Autarch (145)
    Jet Bike
    Laser lance
    Reaper Launcher

    Jet Bikes x 6 (205)
    Shuriken Cannon x 2
    Warlock
    Shining Spear
    Enhance

    Jet Bikes x 6 (205)
    Shuriken Cannon x 2
    Warlock
    Shining Spear
    Enhance

    warp spiders x 5 (137)
    exarch
    Spinnerete rifle
    surprise assault

    Shining Spears x 3 (157)
    Exarch
    Star Lance
    Withdraw

    Vypers x 2 (150)
    Bright Lances x 2

    Banshees x 6 (123)
    Exarch
    Executoner
    Warshout
    . . .in. . .
    Falcon (190)
    Scatter Laser
    Holofields
    Star engines
    Spirit stones

    Fire Dragons x 5 (115)
    Exarch
    Fire Pike
    Tank Hutners
    . . .in. . .
    Falcon (190)
    Scatter Laser
    Holofields
    Star engines
    Spirit stones

    Fire Prism (125)
    Shuri cannon

    Total 1747

    Im keeping the reaper on the bike cos i like the idea of a heavy weapon unloading before he and the spears swoop in to cleap up. And i know there is the arguement that no he can't use the heavy weapon then assualt, i beg to differ as the unit type is "jetbike" rather than "infatry" when equipped as such.

    I've dropped the second unit of vypers , the reapers and the rangers in favour of the banshess, dragons and the extra Falcon. Previously i was running the lone falcon with the reapers as passengers, doing a 12" run, dropping then scooting, but then it dawned . . . . cant fire reapers, and they end up being left in the open and becoming a prime target. dunno how i missed that one . . . .

    I like the Banshees as i have had them take out a chappy and body guard with very little loss and find them just to be invaluable even with such low strength, i didn't take them before in the first list cos i was going for fast(jetbikes) and hard(reapers), but i figure this ways its just fast and elegant . The spiders ability to drop in and take out light vehicles/heavier infantry and the like i think i very cool, and maybe hard to use, but cool to learn with.

    I kept the Vypers with the lances to snipe from afar, playing seconds to the Prisim. The jetbikes will be there to zip around and generally harass the enemy with the multitude of catapult shots coupled with the cannons and spears.

    I'm still contemplating dropping the spiders and the 2nd falcon to beef out the Banshees to 10 in a wave serpant, with a 2nd CCW based Autarch, though i like the idea of having the extra falcon and the spiders as not only seperate units, but scoring ones at that.

    So commets welcome and very much aprecitated
    98% of the teen population has smoked weed, if you are the 2% that hasn't, and blindly believe everything you read on the net, then put this in your signature.

    PS - i AM the Green Lantern

  6. #5
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    I was a little suspicious of the reaperlauncher on bike being unable to fire so I went back to the rulebook last night. In the jetbike section it says he can move and fire heavy weapons. In the heavy weapon rules it says that RIDERS of jetbikes can move, fire and assault with heavy weapons. Nowhere in the rulebook does it distinguish between bike mounted weapons and rider carried weapons. A Spacemarine with a multimelta bike can assault as can a space marine on bike who rappid fires a plasmagun.

    Appologies for reopening old wounds if this has been discussed extensivley in other threads. Anyway on to the list.

    HQ: Mandiblasters would help.

    Guardian Bikes: Super

    Spiders: OK. Prefer to see more in the squad. I think deepstrike is not that useful. You may not turn up until turn 3 or 4 and if you deploy normally with your 12-24" movement you can probably be anywhere on the table by the shooting phase of turn 2. Use intervening terrain to block LOS on turn one and you should be fine. Withdraw is more useful. The spinneret rifle is not as good as the dual deathspinners except against terminators. 4 shots with poor AP is better than one shot with good AP even against marines with their 66% save. Quantity has a quality all of its own. Just remember that deathspinners are AP- so anti vehicle shooting wont work that well.

    Shining Spears: Get more bodies in this unit as 2 casualties from shooting will ruin their effectiveness and they are not that hard to kill.

    Vipers: Go back to twin shuriken cannon each and get on the enemy side armour.

    Banshees: Make them ten strong and in a wave serpent (Twin linked bright lance) with stones and VE. Drop star engines from all vehicles.

    Dragons: Drop the exarch.

    Falcon: Drop Star engines.

    Prism: need holofields and stones.


    You cannot make all of the above improvements without dropping something to free up points. Understrength eldar units can really suffer especially later in the game. I think you are trying to include too much and may suffer because of it. Either drop the spiders or the banshees (and get the 2nd falcon back).
    Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.

  7. #6
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Sorry mate it does, is says Bike mounted, that is admtedly open to interpretation but the distinction would be between bike mounted and carried by the rider, I would admit you can readily argue this to a dice off, but it is chancy and to be honest I dont want to play games where there is that much contention, I would rather beat them without it
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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