1500 point mechanised Tau, for a friend - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    159 (x3)

    1500 point mechanised Tau, for a friend

    I've got a friend who's looking to start a Tau army. I'm trying to come up with suggestions for lists that will be relatively easy to collect, reasonably good, and which emphasize the battle-suits (which are what attracted him to the army in the first place).

    So far, this is what I've come up with:

    Shas'el: 87
    -Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, HW Multi-Tracker

    Crisis Team: 169
    -Shas'ui with Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker
    -Shas'vre with Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife
    --HW Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones

    Crisis Team: 169
    -Shas'ui with Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker
    -Shas'vre with Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker, Bonding Knife
    --HW Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones

    Firewarrior Team: 255
    -11 Shas'la with pulse rifles
    -Shas'ui with pulse rifle
    -Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Multitracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 255
    -11 Shas'la with pulse rifles
    -Shas'ui with pulse rifle
    -Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Multitracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers

    Broadside Team: 200
    -Shas'ui with Advanced Stabilization
    -Shas'vre with Advanced Stabilization, Hardwired Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones, Bonding Knife

    Broadside Team: 200
    -Shas'ui with Advanced Stabilization
    -Shas'vre with Advanced Stabilization, Hardwired Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones, Bonding Knife

    Hammerhead Gunship: 165
    -Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Total: 1500

    Any suggestions?

    Last edited by Left of West; December 11th, 2007 at 15:13.
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

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  3. #2
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    Shas'el really needs TA.

    The Shas'vre upgrade in Crisis teams is unnecessary, as it doesn't benefit the unit in any particular way any more than the T-Ldr upgrade does. You still get the Hard-wired stuff. Actually, I would consider dropping the two SDs as well, then take TA on the T-Ldr for better BS. It is harder to hide 4 models than it is to hide two, so you should be able to keep the two suits out of danger more easily through JSJ anyway.

    'Ui upgrade on DF-mounted Fire Warriors is not really that necessary, as they spend much of their time *in* the vehicle, only coming out to play when the Fish of Fury attack goes down.

    Broadside units: again, the 'Vre upgrade is not necessary. T-Ldr will do just as well, and of course is cheaper.

    Both Crisis teams are Fireknives; it might be an idea to consider a Deathrain unit with TA. Cheaper, longer range and rather lethal to AV12 and below (read: Falcons!) You could even consider changing the T-Ldr of the Fireknife unit to a Helios, just for that FB shot against deep-striking TEq.

    Hope some of this was of use to you (and your friend!)

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

  4. #3
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    159 (x3)

    Interesting. I had forgotten that, in the new codex, there was a cheaper Team Leader upgrade--I was still thinking that the only way to get access to hardwired stuff was to take the full rank upgrade. Alright, so, what about this:

    Shas'o: 122
    -Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, HW Multi-Tracker, Command and Control Node

    Crisis Team: 120
    -2x Shas'ui with TL Plasma Rifles, Targeting Arrays

    Crisis Team: 120
    -2x Shas'ui with TL Plasma Rifles, Targeting Arrays

    Crisis Team: 96
    -2x Shas'ui with TL Missile Pods, Targeting Arrays

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    -12 Shas'la with pulse rifles
    -Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Multitracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    -12 Shas'la with pulse rifles
    -Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Multitracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers

    Broadside Team: 195
    -Shas'ui with Advanced Stabilization
    -Team Leader with Advanced Stabilization, Hardwired Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones, Bonding Knife

    Broadside Team: 195
    -Shas'ui with Advanced Stabilization
    -Team Leader with Advanced Stabilization, Hardwired Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones, Bonding Knife

    Hammerhead Gunship: 170
    -Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Target Lock, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Total: 1498
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

  5. #4
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    Errm....the HQ and the Elites are not really how I would field them, with the exception of the Deathrains (TLMP/TA). I'd like to offer some suggestions, if I may. Let's look at the HQ first.

    Shas'O: more wounds, higher BS than Shas'el. Also more expensive by quite a bit. The extra expense is buying you a few slightly higher graded stats. The extra wound and Attack is really only important if you plan on getting this guy into combat, which isn't necessarily an ideal thing for Tau to do!

    Shas'el: with same weapons as 'O, but taking TA and Stims costs less, gets same BS and also the Tau equivalent of Feel No Pain. Cheaper, but virtually the same abilities. The C&CN is really an end-loading of points, and unless you plan to have him join your Broadsides to bolster their Leadership, I wouldn't tend to take this upgrade.

    Basically, the 'El can equal the shooting of the 'O, is still going to remain in the back field to keep him safe (unless you're using a Ninja'O with VRT) and will do pretty much what the 'O would be doing - except he costs a lot less. In 1500pts, I would always take the 'El.

    Now for the Crisis Suits:

    Taking Burning Eye+ (TLPR/TA) on all your Crisis suits is reducing them to 4 long-range shots until the enemy get close or until you move in close to the enemy, when the rapid fire 2-shot effect comes out. Either way, those units are very expensive for what you get firepower-wise, and are not necessarily particularly effective as a killing machine until they get up close. Compare to the Fireknife: two weapons (MP and PR), capable of two, three or four shots per Crisis suit per turn depending on range to the enemy, with high enough strength to take down AV12 and even cause AV13 a headache. The extra point of strength from the MP over the PR can make the difference between winging a vehicle and taking the same vehicle out.

    Cost-wise: Burning Eye+ weighs in at 65pts each. Weapon is twin-linked, but only effective when within Rapid fire 2-shot range. Re-roll on higher BS means probably unlikely to miss with both shots, but range is a limiting factor which decides the number of shots. Allied to a Markerlight hit, you are only increasing the guarantee of a single or 2 shots hitting per model.

    Fireknife is 62pts, but doesn't get the TA. However, two shots at 36", 3 at 24" or 4 at 12" give a progressive rate of fire which can make up for the lack of TA by the sheer number of shots made. Giving the FK T-Ldr a TA increases the hits percentage significantly. Ally both models to a Markerlight hit and you're talking serious ability from 4 weapons, totalling 6-8 shots.

    Without T-Ldr upgrade on the Fireknife unit, the cost difference between Burning Eye and FK is 6 points in favour of the FK. FK is more "bang" for your points expenditure.

    So if you change your Burning Eye guys to Fireknives, you will end up with 8 shots to 36", 12 at 24" and 16 at 12", which is a 300% increase on the Burning Eye capability at 24", a 200% increase at 12", and an added ability at 36" over the Burning Eye.

    I am not advocating that the Fireknife should be taken on all four suits. There are alternative types, like Firestorm (MP/BC/MT), Helios (PR/FB/MT), Bladestorm (PR/BC/MT) and so forth. All have different abilities and suitabilities for certain enemy armies. Deathrains get very good press, and are coming up in my own estimations having read certain articles here at LO and put the theories contained therein into practice (thanks Riki!).

    I hope some of this was of use to you, and that it wasn't too confusing!

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

  6. #5
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    159 (x3)

    Quote Originally Posted by eiglepulper View Post
    Errm....the HQ and the Elites are not really how I would field them, with the exception of the Deathrains (TLMP/TA). I'd like to offer some suggestions, if I may. Let's look at the HQ first.

    Shas'O: more wounds, higher BS than Shas'el. Also more expensive by quite a bit. The extra expense is buying you a few slightly higher graded stats. The extra wound and Attack is really only important if you plan on getting this guy into combat, which isn't necessarily an ideal thing for Tau to do!

    Shas'el: with same weapons as 'O, but taking TA and Stims costs less, gets same BS and also the Tau equivalent of Feel No Pain. Cheaper, but virtually the same abilities. The C&CN is really an end-loading of points, and unless you plan to have him join your Broadsides to bolster their Leadership, I wouldn't tend to take this upgrade.

    Basically, the 'El can equal the shooting of the 'O, is still going to remain in the back field to keep him safe (unless you're using a Ninja'O with VRT) and will do pretty much what the 'O would be doing - except he costs a lot less. In 1500pts, I would always take the 'El.
    You're right. None of the upgrades on the 'O really matter except the Ballistics skill and the leadership. Given the inclusion of the C&C node, I figured that it was fairly clear I was going for the Leadership. To be honest, I was trying to shoe-horn this device in here because the friend in question had a bad run-in with target priority tests in his first game. He's looking to keep the model count low, and I figured this piece of wargear on a Leadership 10 model that, basically, would pretty much always be able to stay within 12" of the whole army, would be reassuring to him. Had you suggested any particular place to put the extra points I'd save by cutting this back down to the Shas'el, I might go for it. Without that, I'm inclined to keep the 'O and the node.

    Now for the Crisis Suits:

    Taking Burning Eye+ (TLPR/TA) on all your Crisis suits is reducing them to 4 long-range shots until the enemy get close or until you move in close to the enemy, when the rapid fire 2-shot effect comes out. Either way, those units are very expensive for what you get firepower-wise, and are not necessarily particularly effective as a killing machine until they get up close. Compare to the Fireknife: two weapons (MP and PR), capable of two, three or four shots per Crisis suit per turn depending on range to the enemy, with high enough strength to take down AV12 and even cause AV13 a headache. The extra point of strength from the MP over the PR can make the difference between winging a vehicle and taking the same vehicle out.

    Cost-wise: Burning Eye+ weighs in at 65pts each. Weapon is twin-linked, but only effective when within Rapid fire 2-shot range. Re-roll on higher BS means probably unlikely to miss with both shots, but range is a limiting factor which decides the number of shots. Allied to a Markerlight hit, you are only increasing the guarantee of a single or 2 shots hitting per model.

    Fireknife is 62pts, but doesn't get the TA. However, two shots at 36", 3 at 24" or 4 at 12" give a progressive rate of fire which can make up for the lack of TA by the sheer number of shots made. Giving the FK T-Ldr a TA increases the hits percentage significantly. Ally both models to a Markerlight hit and you're talking serious ability from 4 weapons, totalling 6-8 shots.

    Without T-Ldr upgrade on the Fireknife unit, the cost difference between Burning Eye and FK is 6 points in favour of the FK. FK is more "bang" for your points expenditure.

    So if you change your Burning Eye guys to Fireknives, you will end up with 8 shots to 36", 12 at 24" and 16 at 12", which is a 300% increase on the Burning Eye capability at 24", a 200% increase at 12", and an added ability at 36" over the Burning Eye.

    I am not advocating that the Fireknife should be taken on all four suits. There are alternative types, like Firestorm (MP/BC/MT), Helios (PR/FB/MT), Bladestorm (PR/BC/MT) and so forth. All have different abilities and suitabilities for certain enemy armies. Deathrains get very good press, and are coming up in my own estimations having read certain articles here at LO and put the theories contained therein into practice (thanks Riki!).

    I hope some of this was of use to you, and that it wasn't too confusing!

    E.
    You might be right about the burning eyes and fireknives. To be fair, the burning eyes are considerably more effective against marines and marine-equivalents, especially within 12" (which is an important range, since most marines wll be trying to assault you).

    Given that the deathrains are so worthwhile, it seemed an interesting idea to take what I usually consider to be a multipurpose, but ultimately unreliable squad and turn it into a very focused and much more reliable squad. With the burning eye, you get almost a whole kill per shot. You might miss a kill one of four times. You can much more easily plan on the number of casualties you will inflict. Since the dedicated missile-pod squad is also quite good, this shift seemed worth considering.
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

  7. #6
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    724 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Left of West View Post
    You're right. None of the upgrades on the 'O really matter except the Ballistics skill and the leadership. Given the inclusion of the C&C node, I figured that it was fairly clear I was going for the Leadership. To be honest, I was trying to shoe-horn this device in here because the friend in question had a bad run-in with target priority tests in his first game. He's looking to keep the model count low, and I figured this piece of wargear on a Leadership 10 model that, basically, would pretty much always be able to stay within 12" of the whole army, would be reassuring to him. Had you suggested any particular place to put the extra points I'd save by cutting this back down to the Shas'el, I might go for it. Without that, I'm inclined to keep the 'O and the node.
    Taking a weapon, upgrade or piece of equipment based on a temporary bad run of luck is not the best way to build a list.
    The C&C node is not a brilliant piece of kit, and most (probably 99%) of players do fine without it. You also have to consider that the node is only 12" range, so you are going to be restricting the offensive capabilities of your expensive Shas'O, purely because it is going to have to stay in range of the units that you want to help pass TP tests.
    The Shas'O/El is the best offensive resource that the Tau has available; bearing this in mind the El/O should be equipped to deal out as much damage as possible, and for the most economical cost.
    My advice is listen to Eiglepulper (dude knows his stuff), take a Shas'El with a Targeting Array and either Plasma, MP, HW Multi or a Plasma, Fusion, HW Multi.
    1984

  8. #7
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    You're right, basically. The C&C node was just a filler, and not a particularly good one. Having given it some thought, what do you think of this list?

    Shas'el: 92
    Plasma, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array

    Shas'el: 92
    Plasma, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array

    Crisis Team: 96
    2 Deathrains

    Crisis Team: 96
    2 Deathrains

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Hammerhead: 170
    Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock

    Hammerhead: 170
    Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock


    This list comes to only 1436 points. Is it good so far, and what should I do with the last sixty four points?
    Last edited by Left of West; December 18th, 2007 at 19:31.
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

  9. #8
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    Some folks may argue about the inclusion of TA on a twin-linked system, but I would include it on the Deathrains. That extra point of BS is always useful, even with the TL ability. (It certainly is if you have *my* dice!)

    Your Shas'els are incorrectly costed. Should be 97pts.

    With those things taken into consideration, you have enough points to take a Heatwave with a BSF for the exact points available. Deep Strike him in somewhere handy and let him do some damage before he dies!

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

  10. #9
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    So, I'm not sure what a heatwave is, but how about this?

    Shas'el: 97
    Plasma, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array

    Shas'el: 97
    Plasma, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array

    Crisis Team: 96
    2 Deathrains

    Crisis Team: 96
    2 Deathrains

    Crisis Mon'at: 48
    1 Sunforge

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Hammerhead: 170
    Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock

    Hammerhead: 170
    Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock

    1494 points?
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

  11. #10
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    Shas'el: 97
    Plasma, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array

    Shas'el: 97
    Plasma, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array
    dual fireknives are always useful. HQ is the only place I still like to use mine.


    Crisis Team: 96
    2 Deathrains

    Crisis Team: 96
    2 Deathrains
    Again ace choice here. Targeting array makes the TLMP as close to a sure thing as is possible in this game.


    Crisis Mon'at: 48
    1 Sunforge
    a fun little distraction when no one is expecting it, but useless without deep stiking. Also takes last slot in elite where I'd prefer to have some stealth...


    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

    Firewarrior Team: 240
    12 Firewarrior with Pulse Rifles
    Devilfish with Smart Missiles, Targeting Array, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers
    For mech is is fine. You can actually reduce the number of FW to 9 or 10 to save some points here, and if using FoF you might consider Burst cannon and drones for more versitility. Drones detach and help create a no-go zone in front of vehicles as well as forcing a target priority test, and the combined drone burst cannon adds an aditional shot over the SMS. Admittedly the SMS needs no LOS, but I would hate to think I rely upon it to work as my main sources of anti infantry shooting while flying.


    Hammerhead: 170
    Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock

    Hammerhead: 170
    Rail Gun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock
    1494 points?[/quote]

    One of the now obvious pitfalls of mech is the need to float 2 single shot railguns. The points cost here is outragious for the amount of contribution these two ships will give. A much better points useage is a team of broadsides with ASS and a shield drone. This frees more points for the stealth suits.

    While this is a good solid list, it points to the failure of mech Tau to benefit from the Tau strength (volume of shooting) while presenting a target rich environment for those lascannon dense IG and shooty SM armies. Essentially this list gives only 2 AT shots per turn at BS4, and it relies soley upon the HQ elements to counter assault marines, deep striking terminators, and other instant nasties with their plasma rifles. A turn may have as little as 14 shots and average 26 at 24". That's not a lot. My working list currently will produce around 81 shots at that range on average. Just something to think about...

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