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1500pts Kabal of Endless Screams (EXPERIMENTAL LIST)

634 views 13 replies 8 participants last post by  Wicky 
#1 ·
I'm working on a list to use in conjunction with my 1500pts WWP list.

1500 Shadow Army

HQ
Archon + Retinue /W Raider (402)
- Archon [157]
- Punisher
- Tormentor Helm
- Combat Drugs
- Shadow Field
- Xenospasm
- Plasma Grenades
- Incubi x4 [120]
- Blasters x2
- Plasma Grenades
- Warriors x2 [40]
- Shredder Cannons x2
- Plasma Grenades
- Raider [85]
- Horrorfex
- Trophy Rack
- Screaming Jets

Haemonculi [40] x2 (80)
- Destructor

Elite

Wyches [278]
- Wyches x 9 [136]
- Wyche Weps
- Plasma Grenades
- Blasters x2
- Succubus [57]
- Agonizer
- Pistol
- Terrorfex
- Plasma Grenade
- Raider [85]
- Horrorfex
- Trophy Rack
- Screaming Jets

Troops
Warriors x10 [100] x2 [200]
- Splinter Cannon x2

Warriors x10 [100]
- Dark Lance x2

Raider Squad (169)
- Warriors x5 (40) [55]
- Splinter Cannons x1
- Blaster x1
- Sybarite [29]
- Terrorfex
- Raider (55) [85]
- Horrorfex
- Trophy Rack
- Screaming Jets

Heavy Support

Ravager [135] x2 (270)
- Dissy x3
- Horrorfex
- Screaming Jets

1499pts total:


For some of this list to make sense, I'll have to explain how my other list works:

My WWP list starts on the field with 3 warrior squads (two with splinter cannons, and one with DLs) and two haemonculi with WWPs. The rest of the army is in the WWPs. It abuses the IC targeting rules to protect the haemonculi for a turn or two and then I deploy the WWPs and rush out and zug the opponents in assault.

This list starts with almost exactly the same setup on the field: Three warrior squads (two with cannons, one with DLs) and two Haemonculi. However, the Haemy don't have WWPs and the rest of the army isn't using the WWP to get in but deep striking. When they deep strike in they release a huge volley of Pinning fire /w Trophy rack penalties in addition to be unloaded upon by heavy fire. The turn after the units unload and then assault their various targets while the raiders and raider squad keeps the pinning up on the units not locked in assault. While pinned/locked the haemonculi (which should be still alive) will move foreward and start flaming stuff.

I tried to do a similar list once in the past but it didn't work out since my local store has a LOT of CSM players and back then many CSMs were fearless. Now this is no longer the case (quite a few lost fearless in the codex update) and thus this list might be good again.


Strengths:
Part of this lists strength is how i've trained the other players to deal with my lists. In general the only way they win against my WWP list is by over extending and trying to kill me off as quickly as possible without worry of protecting themselves. However with this list that doesn't work as effectively because on turn two (when they expect things to come out of the portal) things will be appearing behind them and they generally won't be in cover. This list is designed to be used randomly instead of my main WWP list to keep opponents off balance.

Weaknesses:
As with my current WWP list, I have a lot of trouble against heavy armor lists. The extra blasters and extra raider with a DL should help with this. However, since my army is focused on pinning all that is useless against heavy mech armies. Also, as with the WWP list, my heavy reliance on Deep Strike can cause problems with bad rolls.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I am mostly trying this idea out to see if it is a viable alternative.
 
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#2 ·
I don't see any webway portals actually listed in that list, but maybe I'm just blind. I'm also not a fan of your HQ selections. I don't see why giving incubi special weaponry is any good at all, among other things. I also don't see the value of putting more than 400 points into a single unit. And your archon does not need to be nearly that powerful, a dracon would be much much better. I'm also pretty sure you mean splinter cannons, not shredder cannons for your warriors. Drop the two incubi with the special weapons, add a third one in, and tone down the archon.
 
#3 ·
The whole point of the list is that it ISN"T a WWP list but my starting units on the field make it look like my WWP list. =)

As to the archon: My archon is my IC killer. The reason he is an archon rather then a dracon is that +1 initiative difference. That +1 is the difference between going the same time as an exarch/autarch/howling-banshee and going before them.

Incubi: The thing is, since I'm bringing everyone in via deep strike on the raiders they will all be sitting around for one turn inside the raider and I'd rather they have something useful to do. In addition my opponents have learn to 1) move away from units locked in assault by Incubi and 2) send tanks at my incubi. Both of these problems are somewhat fixed by the blasters.

"Shredder Cannons": Yeah, I meant splinter cannons :) I always make that typo XD

HQ Unit in general: Normal the unit as a whole is 100pts cheaper (no warriors, pinning weapons, blasters, or raider upgrades). Its just that I want to get the units first strike when they deep strike in to be as strong as possible in case they somehow pass both pinning tests fired by the squad.
 
#4 ·
Oh, not a WWP list but an army of shadows-ish. Sorry, I am blind after all.
As for the archon, well, I guess, it could make sense, since your incubi are CC deprived at the moment. But I am still not a fan of ahving a 400 point unit in a 1500 point list that may not come on at all, or may suffer a poor scatter and deprive you of a third of your victory points.
 
#5 ·
There are only a few things I think that you should think about that I have noticed.

One thing is that you have given 2 incubi blasters... if I am not mistaken that displaces your punisher and don't you want incubi for close combat?

I've actully been thinking about running a similar list although I don't like deep striking Raiders and Ravangers. Would really like to know how well it goes. I have always been put off by doing this becuase of the randomness that the riaders will turn up. If you can be sure they all turn up at once it would be awesome!

Its actually similar to my standard list I run plus a few more things as I don't take the screaming jets.
 
#11 ·
Hi,
Coming in late here but the Incubi with Blasters combination is from the old Codex and not legal anymore.
Cheers.
 
#7 ·
I like the way you think. Dark Eldar were meant to be played 'sneaky' and I support you with this list as you are experimenting where some of us have never been before :0. I look forward to hearing how you went against your friend.

Anti-tank incubi *the marines don't know whats coming*...

ST
 
#8 ·
1500 Shadow Army

HQ
Archon + Retinue /W Raider (402)
- Archon [157]
- Punisher
- Tormentor Helm
- Combat Drugs
- Shadow Field
- Xenospasm
- Plasma Grenades
- Incubi x4 [120]
- Blasters x2
- Plasma Grenades
- Warriors x2 [40]
- Shredder Cannons x2
- Plasma Grenades
- Raider [85]
- Horrorfex
- Trophy Rack
- Screaming Jets
Would a dracon be better? Less loss if this raider goes pop. Also it owuld free you some more points, always handy. In addition I'd suggest not taking blasters on the incubi, waste of points and takes away your power weapon *shudder*.


Haemonculi [40] x2 (80)
- Destructor
Nothing to say here.

Elite

Wyches [278]
- Wyches x 9 [136]
- Wyche Weps
- Plasma Grenades
- Blasters x2
- Succubus [57]
- Agonizer
- Pistol
- Terrorfex
- Plasma Grenade
- Raider [85]
- Horrorfex
- Trophy Rack
- Screaming Jets
You sure you want 10 wyches in one raider? Wouldn't less wyches more warriors or possibly two 5 man wyche squads (if you can squeeze the points from somewhere) be better?

Troops
Warriors x10 [100] x2 [200]
- Splinter Cannon x2

Warriors x10 [100]
- Dark Lance x2
As you have said this is essential for your tricks.

Raider Squad (169)
- Warriors x5 (40) [55]
- Splinter Cannons x1
- Blaster x1
- Sybarite [29]
- Terrorfex
- Raider (55) [85]
- Horrorfex
- Trophy Rack
- Screaming Jets
I can't shake the feeling that you need more of these, either more warriors or another squad, dependant on what else you decide to change.

Heavy Support

Ravager [135] x2 (270)
- Dissy x3
- Horrorfex
- Screaming Jets
Indeed.

For some of this list to make sense, I'll have to explain how my other list works:

My WWP list starts on the field with 3 warrior squads (two with splinter cannons, and one with DLs) and two haemonculi with WWPs. The rest of the army is in the WWPs. It abuses the IC targeting rules to protect the haemonculi for a turn or two and then I deploy the WWPs and rush out and zug the opponents in assault.

This list starts with almost exactly the same setup on the field: Three warrior squads (two with cannons, one with DLs) and two Haemonculi. However, the Haemy don't have WWPs and the rest of the army isn't using the WWP to get in but deep striking. When they deep strike in they release a huge volley of Pinning fire /w Trophy rack penalties in addition to be unloaded upon by heavy fire. The turn after the units unload and then assault their various targets while the raiders and raider squad keeps the pinning up on the units not locked in assault. While pinned/locked the haemonculi (which should be still alive) will move foreward and start flaming stuff.

I tried to do a similar list once in the past but it didn't work out since my local store has a LOT of CSM players and back then many CSMs were fearless. Now this is no longer the case (quite a few lost fearless in the codex update) and thus this list might be good again.
Fearless or very High Ld units are, as you are aware, the bane of this list and you will just lose, still it looks like a fun list to crack out now and again when the oppurtunity presents itself.
 
#9 ·
Interesting breakdown Karantalsis and as always I respect how critical you can get, although for this list I think theres a tactical reason why it is so, although some mistakes may have been made (we all make them).

ST
 
#12 ·
Hey everyone, I've kinda been away for a bit so I didn't get the chance to respond to this topic :3

In either case, how the battle went:

It didn't XD

Basically what happened is that between really bad reserve rolls (I got one a turn each turn until the end of the game), and really bad deep striking, the battle never worked. However, I did learn a few things:

Just say NO to incubi. Incubi are awesome and I love them but the key to this list is dropping within 12" of your intended target(s). That is a VERY narrow margin to fall in and if you get a bad roll, you'll lose the whole unit AND your archon/dracon. So bad times indeed. I lost the whole command squad when I rolled double 6s on my scatter and when directly in to the enemy (I didn't land on top of any of them, but I couldn't get around landing within 1" of them and thus popping).

The strategy, as a whole, still shows a lot of potential even with my epic failure on the first test. Every single unit that deep striked in, pinned down one unit. I was against a chaos marines list (ie. Ld 9/10 across the board) so that is rather impressive. He wasn't expecting my plan so although he was (prudently) spaced out a bit to protect from blast weapons, he wasn't the maximum spaced out method to completely negate the small blast template.

The list is very vulnerable to heavy armor lists, even more so then I expected. More units would help here a lot.


If I were to re-do this list with what I learned (and ignoring what models I actually have), I'd actually go wyche cult (strangely enough) and heres why: A better version of this list would be having a LOT more but weaker units. That means 5 man squads inside a raider with a character inside with a Terrorfex and a raider with scream jets, trophy racks, and horrorfexes.

The cheapest way to do this is with 6 units of raider squads (4 warriors + sybarite + raider). However, this is where you run in to a problem: Unless you are fighting an MEQ type army with fewer but stronger units, you aren't going to be killing this very fast. This is a major problem since although you'll take them down a bunch with the first volley, they'll remove guys so you won't get more then 2-3 guys under the templates (and thus be less likely to pin them next time). We simply cannot lay down enough firepower to kill them with the second volley to the point where they aren't a threat anymore. In addition it is quite risky due to the fragility of our units. The second problem is that all your anti-armor firepower is tied down shooting at the infantry squads on turn one (all those blasters have to fire at the same targets as the horror/terrorfexes).

So the (possible) solution? Use wyches in raiders rather then warriors. This has the disadvantage of making the units individually more expensive but is better in the long run. Turn 1 you swoop in and lay down pinning fire. Then you unload the mini wyche squads and chew up the enemy with the succubus' agonizer. That leaves the raiders free to pin down the remaining enemy infantry or start taking pot shots at the remaining heavy armor and MCs (if any). The warriors (now an elite choice) would be formed in to 10 man "sniper" squads with the two DLs whose sole purpose is to fire at un-pinned infantry squads and heavy armor.

In the latter list, the wyche lord would be mounted on either a jetbike or hellboard and rush towards the enemy to engage them once the raiders drop in and start pinning stuff (likely turn 2 or 3).

However, there are still a few problems to be reconciled (which might not be possible with the current codex):

First of all, we are deep striking in with an army that has no ability to improve our deep strike. We don't have teleport homers or similar abilities to make our deep striking more accurate, and we don't have something like the Tau Positional relay or marines "Drop Pod Assault" rule which allows us to get more guys in sooner from reserve. As such, the list is still very luck dependent rather then skill dependent (which is the DE's preference).

Second, the list can pin down large swaths of enemies but can't kill very well. If we increase our firepower (at range or in assault) we lose much of our points budget thats needed for deployment and pinning. A balance might be achievable here but it will be difficult.

Lastly, some armies/lists are just completely immune to the strategy. Orks (with units larger then 10 becoming fearless), Tyranids (synapse), Certain Chaos lists (with lots of vehicles and/or fearless units), Guard (since they can field more vehicles then we can destroy and/or more units then we can pin), any heavy mechanized/vehicle list, etc. In all, it is only good against heavy infantry MEQ lists (Marines, Necrons, certain CSM lists, etc).


Hi,
Coming in late here but the Incubi with Blasters combination is from the old Codex and not legal anymore.
Cheers.
What do you mean by that? Do you mean you can't have blasters + punishers?
 
#14 ·
What do you mean by that? Do you mean you can't have blasters + punishers?
Hi again,
Brain snap time again, I thought that you meant punishers with blasters on the same model and then confused the whole issue!

Carry on as though I am not here.

Cheers.
 
#13 ·
I'm not sure how effective a Wych Cult deepstrike list would be since I haven't tried it, but maybe the way to go is a "true" Army of Shadows list.

Decapitator + 30 Mandrakes start "on the board" and the rest deepstrike in.
Maybe put an Archon on a skyboard with a Hellion retinue
Cheap Raider Squads
Ravagers, and maybe even a Cannon toting Scourge Squad.

That's the list I'm trying to build.
 
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