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  1. #1
    Senior Member Strategist's Avatar
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    2000 pts Competative

    HQ
    Farseer w/ Doom, Guide 130pts
    Troops
    Dire Avengers x 10 w/Exarch, dual cats,bladestorm 152pts
    Dire Avengers x 10 w/Exarch, dual cats,bladestorm 152pts
    Jetbikes x6 w/shurken cannon x 2 152pts
    Guardians x 12 w/scatterlaser 111pts
    Guardians x 12 w/scatterlaser 111pts
    Storm Guardians x 12 w/flamers x 2, warlock w/destructor 143pts
    Fast Attack
    Swooping Hawks x 8 w/exarch, Intercept, Skyleap 200pts
    Vypers x 2 w/shuriken cannons x2/ea 120pts
    Vypers x 2 w/shuriken cannons x2/ea 120pts
    Heavy Support
    War Walkers x 3 w/EML x 2/ea 210pts
    Dark Reapers x5 w/Eaxarch, Fast Shot, EML 217pts
    Falcon w/Shuriken cannon x2, Holofields, Spirit Stones 175pts

    Till I have enough more Jetbikes, the guardians are there to add a little extra fire. The Farseer is meant to hang around the reapers or walkers, if not both, and add to their punch. I normally don't go this much shooty, but wanted to try out something new this weekend. I'll prolly be facing either a chaos marine army or maybe even Necrons.

    Any suggestions or critiques are welcome.


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  3. #2
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    Nice balanced list. But that's easy at 2K, I guess.

    Bladestorm is usually for softening up a tough enemy before assault, I think. Which means probably switching to PW&Shimmershield for the exarch, losing what, 2 shots? This is pretty important, since you will need a CC screen sometimes, and that's your DAs and the Storm Guardians.

    I'd put starcannon on the falcons - 4 AP2 shots is much better than 2, especially when you have BS3. otherwise, you're going to find terminators and ext. carapace carnifexes a real PITA.

    With all the anti-tank in the list already, I'd change the Reaper X to a tempest launcher.

    I might drop a squad or both squads of Guardians for 6 man quads of CC troops.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Der_Kaiser's Avatar
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    Well, on the DAs, 2 cats and bladestorm works best if they have a wave serpent, and on the turn after they bladestorm, get back into their transport. If you drop both those guardian squads, you can get 2 with tl-shuricannon and spirit stones. I run that exact set-up and it's only failed me once, when I was stupid enough to unload one squad too close to a talos. There's nothing wrong with the guardian squads, so if you want to keep them, I'd replace the dual cats with pw/ss.

    I'd replace the hawks with warp spiders. warp spiders have much better armor and far superior guns for 1 point more per model.

    Aside from the emls on your war walkers ther isn't much anti-armor (although admitedly, there is a lot of anti-armor on those 3), so it would appear that your walkers would attract a lot of fire in your opponents effort to make his tanks safe. The pulse laser on the falcon and the eml in the reaper squad help, but the falcon is likely to get shaken as it's so hated, and firing the reapers at a tank will probably see it off, but you waste the rest of the squad. I'd keep the reaper squad as it is for versatility's sake, but drop the falcon for a wraithlord with brightlance and missile launcher. Much more reliable anti-tank.

    I personally don't see the footslogging storm guardians ever making it into combat. They just aren't tough enough. I'd see if you can fit some infiltrating scorpions in their place.

    All in all, you have the right idea, just some tweaking will help. Hope that helps;Y

  5. #4
    Senior Member Strategist's Avatar
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    My original thought instead of one of the guardian squads, was having eldrad instead of the farseer for baiting on setup so that i wouldnt have to worry bout my walkers or any other important squads.

    I had the swooping hawks for mobile anti tank. The people i play against think that they are a point sink and a waste in every aspect. As for the Dire Avengers, I was originally going to setup the avengers with the shimmershield, but was debating whether it was too many points wasted on those squads.

    The walkers have a dual purpose though, after tank elimination, they were going to force multiple saves with the plasma blasts. I have killed 13 of 20 bezerkers in one turn cause of that, with only 3 walkers.

    i know normally that most people dont think guardians are worth anything, but I have always used them since i started with eldar. They are a backbone for the force. Roll your dice. See how many 10 man squads of Marines will live up against 2 squads of guardians. especially when you throw 3 flamers into the mix. This setup has secured flanks for me at times. Its more intimidation, than it is efficient. But I also usually ran them as 15 man squads.

    The Falcon was a toss in, was debating about runnin extra walkers instead of it, but..... I dont think I would toss a wraithlord in there to replace it though. mine have never gotten their points back, other than as a fire magnet.

    For the reaper's exarch, think of the EML as a higher strength reaper launcher, or adding some secure blast shots.
    Last edited by Strategist; March 25th, 2008 at 01:25. Reason: One more thing

  6. #5
    Senior Member Der_Kaiser's Avatar
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    Heh, I think you may have misunderstood me. Keep the reapers and warwalkers as they are, I think they'd do fine. If you don't want to lose the guardians that's perfectly fine, set them up in front of the DAs and that's a lot of shurikens. I was simply offering them as a suggestion of something you could remove if you wanted wave serpents. My only issue with the guardians is that the storm guardians are pretty unlikely to make it to the enemy. I'm not sure what your plan is, but it seems like you'd be better off rplacing them with more regular guardians, more DAs, or a dedicated assault squad like scorpions or harlies.

    It's a tough call when equpping the DA exarch, though i almost always go 2 cats since i don't like missing out on that lovely BS 5. Most people will say that when footslogging, pw/ss is better. I haven't played pw/ss that much, so i wouldn't really know.

    And really, I don't see any problem with the warwalkers, I just think it might be too many eggs in one basket. If you're opponent fires enough at them, they'd be seen off pretty cleanly, and you'd basically be out of luck when it comes to deealing with tanks.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Strategist's Avatar
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    hehe, just as i figured. I sounded a lil too harsh with the response, lol. I haven't done the mech eldar yet, just because I know enough opponents that will try to blow up or immobilize every tank-type they see on the board within the first turn or two. I dont blame them, but at the same time it has forced me to run more infantry in comparison. Like e.g., Havoc squad vs. a predator. which do u think you'll get more shots out of and more survival. But anyways, I completely understand the eggs. I broke that habit in WHFB. But that would be why I have the hawks, my just in case.

    For the guardians, I've contemplated the same issue, Storm vs. Defenders.... I do strongly feel that the list is missing ALOT of CC opportunity. But I'm favoring it towards shooty purposely. My normal lists usually are alot more balanced than this one. The guardians are there to help wittle things down on different fronts that the avengers dont. Same concept as avengers, just from an older style. I would put more avengers in there, but atm I only have enough for 3 squads of 8, basically 25 of them.

    i'm not too sure with the mech-aspect setup, how do you maintain it to be successful without cutting your own throat? To me, if your opponent has enough AT throughout their army, its not going to help having that much mobility that will be deplenished rather quickly.

    What squad size is suggestable for Scorpions for this size game? I've gotten a relative harlie squad setup, I usually run them 8 strong, with shadowseer, and at least 5 kisses, pending on points. They have been rather successful for me, almost enough to replace my banshees, but not quite. As for the scorpions, I only have 6 of them, only because they're one aspect I have never really used too often. The banshees, again, have always suited the tasks better for me. Would you suggest them being ran with the falcon in that case, then?

  8. #7
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strategist View Post
    hehe, just as i figured. I sounded a lil too harsh with the response, lol. I haven't done the mech eldar yet, just because I know enough opponents that will try to blow up or immobilize every tank-type they see on the board within the first turn or two. I dont blame them, but at the same time it has forced me to run more infantry in comparison. Like e.g., Havoc squad vs. a predator. which do u think you'll get more shots out of and more survival. But anyways, I completely understand the eggs. I broke that habit in WHFB. But that would be why I have the hawks, my just in case.
    hmm mech eldar are not easy to put down, but it depends on the points size, your average eldar tank takes a lot of punishement to take out, the issue is more "can you get enough tanks at the points level
    For the guardians, I've contemplated the same issue, Storm vs. Defenders.... I do strongly feel that the list is missing ALOT of CC opportunity. But I'm favoring it towards shooty purposely. My normal lists usually are alot more balanced than this one. The guardians are there to help wittle things down on different fronts that the avengers dont. Same concept as avengers, just from an older style. I would put more avengers in there, but atm I only have enough for 3 squads of 8, basically 25 of them.
    I quite like storm guardians, they are under rated and seem to fit your army quite well, dont really have issues with the defenders in there either, this was an accepted approach with ultwe up to the last codex
    i'm not too sure with the mech-aspect setup, how do you maintain it to be successful without cutting your own throat? To me, if your opponent has enough AT throughout their army, its not going to help having that much mobility that will be deplenished rather quickly.
    ok very briefly, and I may be teaching you to suck eggs here:
    Eldar fast skimmers when properly equiped, are very resilient, they are also "diferently resilient".

    Your normal tanks rely on armour to protect them if you beat the armour to tend to et the tank, hence high str weapons are the order of the day

    Eldar tanks rely on the fast skimmer rule and upgrades so that the majority of hits dont damage them permenantly. To take out eldar tanks number of shots is the order of the day.

    since most high str weapons are single shots, this means most standard AT is pretty ineffective at taking down eldar tanks, and you exhaserate the situation by having a number of tanks, lets take 1500 points:
    in a guard army 2 AT squads with las cannons (6 cannons) is probably more than enough to take out any tanks on the field right?

    ok but against eldar, they give you probably 3 hits, probably 1.5 glances per turn, on average, a properly equiped eldar tank suffers either a crew stunned or crew shaken from this, i.e all that AT managed to temporarily stop one tank from shooting. (not really an issue if the tank was actually there to delive squads, say a wave serpent full of banshee)
    What squad size is suggestable for Scorpions for this size game? I've gotten a relative harlie squad setup, I usually run them 8 strong, with shadowseer, and at least 5 kisses, pending on points. They have been rather successful for me, almost enough to replace my banshees, but not quite. As for the scorpions, I only have 6 of them, only because they're one aspect I have never really used too often. The banshees, again, have always suited the tasks better for me. Would you suggest them being ran with the falcon in that case, then?
    Scorps, harleys and banshee at this level are ideally maxed out numbers, (but not kisses). the objective being to leave a small part of the squad they charge standing so that you dont get shot to shreds because you are out of combat in your opponents turn. this means they suffer from attrition slightly, with your harleys I wouldnt quibble too much, but 2 more harleys (no more kisses) will probably keep the squad kicking longer,
    Scorpions dont kill mechs so quickly as the other two (no rending, no power weapon) so need the boddies for number of attacks as well as attrition

    Scorps are cheaper without transport, give them stalker and shadow strike and they are fine.

    Remember that the falcon is tank which can transport, not a dedicated transport, it is more powerfull than a Tau Ion head at shooting, why put it close to an opponent where that AT stuff above is ehaserbated by short range mid strength guns just to get the scorps in when they can do that with infiltrate anyway?
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  9. #8
    Senior Member Strategist's Avatar
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    I had never looked at the mech eldar situation like that. That they take soo much damage just for One tank. At the moment I have access to up to 5 serpents, 3 falcons, and 3 prisms. I know against either army this weekend, that the chaos only has havocs, 1 dread, and a defiler. As for the necrons, up to 7 destroyers, and 2 hvy destroyers, and the rest of the gauss guns in his army. Minus characters, I know those are the only things that I have to worry about taking down my tanks. But my real issue with a mech based army is how do you maintain a solid attack against a infantry based army with reasonable saves. If you can't do enough damage to them when you attack, you wont have plenty enough squads to wittle them down, because of their return fire.

    So on another note, I was trying to favor it as a baiting shooty army. But do you think I should just favor it back to being a lil more balanced. Maybe by adding CC elements into it? I know that setup I have above would be good against horde or infantry based armies. Each time I glance at it, I keep thinking that it does need CC.

    If you think it should be balanced back, what units do think should be swapped out, and for what?

    All of the comments and suggestions are being noted, and accepted. It does help seeing these lists with other eyes viewing.

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