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i am in love with grots, paindocks and their various creations , thats how this list came about
shokk attack gun
riggers and plates
all cyborks and eavy armour
deffrolla, riggers, stickbomb chucka, plates, borden plank, graben klaw
4 big shotta
15 burna boys
3 zzap guns
3 amo runts
6 aditional crew
3 zzap guns
3 amo runts
6 aditional crew
3 killa kans
i think im gona modle the shookk attck gun as sort of a personal zzap gun for the big mek
the mek goes with the grots, i find this hilarious for some reason
the warboss hangs out with the nobs in the wagon, i just love the mental picture of the graben klaw/bording plank smashing down on a land raider the boss jumpin out and pealin back the roof and saying "howdy".
Sigh...if you're in love with gretchin, I think you're in for some heartbreak. For some unknown reason, they've stripped grotts of nearly all the special abilities that made them cool. If you still like them, then go for it, but you've been warned. ^_^
Anyway, there are several changes I'd make to this list, some more pressing then others.
The warboss looks good, although I'm not really a fan of attack squigs. A lot of people are though, so if you like them, use them. I just think they're kind of expensive.
The ammo runt gives you re-rolls to hit, but the shokk attack gun doesn't roll to hit. There's no reason to have him attached to the big mek.
That gretchin squad could probably be cut down to 15-19. You only need a runtherd for every 10 gretchin (no rounding, so 19 only needs 1), and since having more than one isn't very useful, I wouldn't take more than 19 in a squad. In this case, two units of 15-19 gretchin would work better than one unit of 30. Honestly, I think shoota boyz are a much better choice now, than grotts, but it's up to you.
Personally, I'd give the deff dread at least a single long range weapon, but just like with the attack squig, a lot of people like the scorchas, so it's up to you.
'Eavy armor on the nobz seems expensive, given the painboy and the cybork bodies. That's 50 points that's probably better spent elsewhere. Specifically, it's better spent on two powerklaws. Even with the warboss attached, this team of nobz needs 1-2 more powerklaws to help ensure victory. Also, it allows you to put the warboss with the burnas, when you're fighting Marines (more on this later). The team also needs a bosspole (vital for making sure they don't run from combat). Be sure to put the bosspole with the nobz, rather than the warboss, or killing the warboss will be much too tempting an option.
The nobz's battlewagon is too expensive. Instead of having a single battlewagon that's trying to do it all, you really need two battlewagons that can each do something well. Also, with the new rules coming out in a few months for 5th edition, the big shootas will no longer count as defensive weapons, meaning that if you move, you can shoot the lobba or one of the big shootas, but nothing else. You need to cut off all but a single gun (the lobba or a big shoota). You're also overdoing the 'assaulty' extras. I'd leave the deffrolla, but cut off the klaw (not very useful), and probably the boarding plank too (it isn't bad, but the deffrolla should be enough). You could attach a wrecking ball though, if you like. They're very effective.
Remember I mentioned needing a second battlewagon? It's for the burnas. Burnas are highly effective, but you need a transport, or they're going to be assaulted and killed long before they earn back their ponits. Last game I played, the ability to roll up a battlewagon right next to a large unit of enemies, and cover it in 10 burna templates was amazing. Without a transport, it wouldn't have been possible. Burnas now also count as having power weapons in close combat, provided that they didn't shoot their scorchas that same round. Against Marines, I like to attach either a warboss or Mad Doc Grotznik, and give the burnas a lot more punch in close combat. Also, I like to field at least two of the burnas as meks with kustom mega blastas. This way, you can also use them to hunt tanks, when no enemy troops are around.
The storm boyz look solid, but they need a powerklaw and a bosspole. I usually run 15 myself, but 20 doesn't hurt, if you can spare the points.
The big guns units are a little expensive, given their vulnerability (I usually only use kannons, and often only in units of 1 kannon a squad), but they can be very effective so it's up to you.
I don't think the grotzookas have enough range, not when considering the slow speed of a kan. Another problem is that there really isn't much anti-armor in this list. Both problems can be solved by giving the killa kans rokkits.
I really like this boyz-free list (no regular orks here ^_^). I think with a little work it can be both competitive and fun. In any case, good luck!
that probably the best reply i have ever gotten to an army list post, thank you
as to the warboss attack squig, i have two bad reasons for it, with out it the mek costs more than him and i thought that was odd. the second reason is that it helped fill in some points, and it is an extra attack.
did not know that bit about the shokk attack gun not needing to role to hit, thanks it makes it much better.
i see your point with the greachen, two units would probably serve me well.
deff dread and the kans in my head are to act as deterrent to hurting the zzap guns and the big mek unit, reason for so many templates is that jump pack units will normally bunch up a little more right before the assaults as to get more dudes in to the fray, so i thought that might be usefully. all though you are very right on the short range of the grotzuka might think about that a bit more.
i also think the battle wagon is a bit expensive, but all the upgrades are so cheep independently they feel like good buys at the time, ill trim it.
with the nobs i was under the impression that feel no pain only worked if you also got your armour save, or is it any save? ill go look it up in a bit.
i have herd that wrecking balls are good, and they seam so funny, i might take one.
i agree the burnas do need a transport, but that would mean taken out the kans or a big gun unit... and i like them... i need to think... witch would you cut?
i am not really a fan of the mega blasta. i don't have a real reason why i just don't.
thanks for the advice
'Feel no pain' is odd because it works two separate ways, depending on if it's the shooting or close combat phase. In shooting, it works unless the attack causes instant death (strength double the target's toughness). Even if the weapon's Ap is good enough to ignore your armor, you still get the 'feel no pain' roll. In close combat, it works unless the model is hit by a power weapon, or any other weapon that denies them an armor save (like a powerfist, powerklaw, dread, or monstrous creature). That's why cybork bodies are so useful, but 'eavy armor on top of that seems like overkill. 'Eavy armor is fine for the warboss though. He'll need it.
I wouldn't cut the kans or the zzap guns. I'd just trim off unnecessary upgrades. Still, if you need to cut off something, I'd cut down the size of the units, rather than eliminate units altogether. Here's some things which could possibly stand to be cut down, if needed:
The nobz could be cut down to 8 in the squad, rather than 10. As long as the warboss is with them, they'll still be quite effective.
The burnas could be cut down to 9-10. If they're inside a battlewagon, they won't need as many numbers to survive. If you intend them for close combat as well, 12-13 might be better.
You could cut out the deffdread, or a single killa kan. 3 Walkers should be enough.
The stormboyz can be cut down to 15-17 (and they still need a powerklaw and bosspole ^_^)
You could cut out the extra crews and/or the ammo runts on both big guns units. They aren't bad, but if your opponent focuses on them, nothing is going to keep them alive.
The trick is, I wouldn't cut out a zzzap gun unit or killa kan unit out completely, because besides the Shokk attack gun, they're really the only anti-armor you have in the list. I'd cut units down in size, or if you had to eliminate something, how about changing one of the big guns units into kannons, with no upgrades, for a cheap 60 points? That certainly wouldn't break the bank.
Good luck! ;Y
i knew about the scater on the shokk atack gun and all that. and after rereading the feal no pain bit have resolved to remove the eavy armour from the nobs, thats some points that will pay for a power klaw on the storm boy nob.
the reason i need to drop a heavy choice for a burna boy transport is that thay can't take one as part of the elite choice that thay oucoupy.
Most of the advice here is good, but whatever you do, dont put a custom mega blasta on a mek boy.... everytime somebody does this a warboss gets a squig brain transplant. Really, you have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting, and a variable chance of wounding, that is about half you your hits, or less vs armour. so you are looking at hitting and damaging something less than 1/6 of the time. On a gun that wounds an +6 model 1/6th of the time... It litterally does more damage to your side than theirs. And to even field a mekboy means you are spending 15 points for either a loota (one of the best things in the codex) or burna (a superb specialist unit, that needs only a good transport) and you can see why its a bad idea. now if you can spend a little more on the mek and give him a rokkit or something, i can see it being ok.
As for zzap guns, they arent as good as they used to be. for 30 points a gun you get a model that hits 50% of the time (no longer auto) and does on average a S7 shot. for 10 points less you can field kannons, which give you a S8 shot. the difference of AP 2 to 3 isn't worth how unreliable the strength is (and on average its lower!) And AP2 is only really useful vs units that orks can just mob up on usually. I personally seen far too many careless termie or carnifexes pulled under by mobs of greenskins with PKs. Use the big guns and all, but at least run the ones that act like cheap rokkits.
If you are going to run kans, a great idea in my mind, run them with Kustom mega blastas and extra armour. since they are vehicles they ignore the gets hot rule, since they are grots they hit more often, and since they are squadrons having them downgrade to shaken is more useful than to role for them to move in the shooting phase. (squadrons have to maintain spacing otherwise immobile units are destroyed)
as for the dread loadout: skorchas arent that great on this unit, the reason being is that its a closecombat monster already, but it only can move 6 inches and assault 6 inches. With this in mind the earliest i can see your dread getting into CC range (which is almost the same as template range) is turn 3. (and this would require unusual gamestate, or a braindead opponent) Now once you get your walking AV 12 unit into CC range, you are going to use FLAMERS! are you trying you get your opponent a chance to deny assault?! all they have to do is remove casualties in a way to make sure you cant move 6 and be in base contact. The dread is already scary enough in CC, give it 2 KMB or rokkits to give it something to do for the first 2-3 turns of the game other than get shot at.
You know you dont even have to run grots with this list? you can use the dread and nobz as your troop choice due to the big meks and warbosses army rules. but if you are dead set on running them run them in a pack of no larger than 19. gives you the lowest average point value per model that way. (3.35 for a mob of 19 gretchin with runtherd vs 3.8 pts per model if you add just one more grot!) Yes i know its cheesy to bother min maxing gots... but if you plan on running something run it right! Saving 20 points in a list as cheap as orks can give you 3 whole boyz, a Kannon, or all but 5 points of a powerklaw.
if you want to run burna boys, drop a gun battery. And add a battlewagon. remember battlewagons can take big guns, rokkits, and even the mighty killkannon (but remember the restrictions that adding it will give towards movement and capacity) So you wont really lose that much AT by eliminating a gun battery and adding another battlewagon.
As for having your mek with your grots, its far better to have him hide behind his IC status, than to use grots a meat shields. Because of how the rules work if you attach him to a unit, they can fire at that unit, and grots are really bad units to hide in because of how fragile they are, and how likely they are to run. and if you put the Big Mek right next to the grots and roll double 3s... at least you didnt care about what you accidentally killed. (i wiped a squad of my own lootas that way) grots are also great at screening vs assaulting units. i put a unit of them next to a fire base of shokk guns, big guns, and lootas, and that grot screen ate up 2 turns worth of assaults from 2 units. It is quit suprising how effective grots are at this role, i personally used them to stop death company in its tracks for 2 turns, in that time the grots killed 3 marines, for the low cost of 8 grots. (a PK warbiker boss joined in killed lemartes, and wiped the sqaud... but still)
i dont think im gona play this list but i felt the need to post it any way, see what you fellas think.
deffrolla, riggers,chucka, plates, borden plank, graben klaw
12 burna boys
12 burna boys
just under 1850
burna boys go in the wagons with the rollas. lootas go in the one with the rokkits, tha range of thoes weapons meen that one wont neet to move all that much.
lots of dakka, lots of burna, lots of smash, and wagons, lots of wagons.
Last edited by murphy; March 30th, 2008 at 07:56. Reason: spelling