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  1. #1
    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    1000pts Tau 5th edition Tournament army

    First I'll post the list, then do a short run through of why I have chosen what I have. Would love to hear any constructive criticism or idea's you guys might have.

    HQ: 87pts

    shas'el w/ plasma rifle + missile pod + multi-tracker
    87pts

    Elites: 287pts

    xv8 w/ TL missile pod, targeting array
    57pts

    xv8 w/ TL missile pod, targeting array
    57pts

    1x Shas'ui w/ Team leader + blacksun filter + markerlight + HW multi-tracker
    2x Shas'ui w/ drone Controller + marker drone
    173pts

    Troops: 280

    6x fire warriors w/ devilfish
    60pts
    f-w Devilfish w/ burst cannon + sms + multi-tracker + targeting array + disruption pod
    120pts

    10x kroot w/ 5x kroot hounds
    100pts


    Heavy Support: 345

    sky ray w/ sms + multi-tracker + targeting array + disruption pod
    165pts

    hammerhead w/ railgun + sms + multi-tracker + target lock + disruption pod
    180pts


    Primarily with this army I have gone for a min/max approach. I have taken what I feel is needed just enough for the squad to perform its given task. With the view in mind that I would rather have multiple squads that fulfill a role rather than a single squad that will always guarantee success.

    HQ: I feel that this is a shas'el that people have seen most often with the exception of the possible targeting array. It shouldn't need to much explaining beyond that.

    Elite: I have fielded two deathrain suits able to stream out constant fire at up too 42" combined with their ability to move back out of line of sight. But while in 4th I would always have fielded them in two's, with the introduction of true line of sight and wounds being carried accross to models in a unit not in line of sight. I have found that I would rather two single suits jumping back behind cover and in the event that the enemy should for some reason manages to spot one. At least this error of mine wont result in the incoming fire killing both off.

    The stealth suits are a mobile markerlight team and I have found their ability to markerlight targets at 30" then jump back 6" has almost made them impossible to shoot down. In combination with their ability to negate coversaves, increase BS and assist in pumping out multiple seeker missiles without fear of return fire. Have proved invaluable.

    Troops: Although many people I know have been telling me that because troops are all that are able to capture objectives in 5th, that half your army should be filled up with them. They never used those exact words, but when telling me what I should take thats what the cost tallied up to. And while I don't for one second doubt the strength of full 12man firewarrior squad riding around in a devilfish. Just two units of these can almost make up half my army. Over the last few games my approach has been to take a warfish and minimal 6man firewarrior squad and have my warfish do all the work. While in the last few turns fly it over to an objective and capture it from the troops just sitting inside. Hence the small size.

    Many people underestimate just how good a troop selection kroot have become now. And with all the posts floating around these forums discussing their strengths and the strength of their hounds I don't feel I need to list them here. But in many cases this unit will run with the outflank special rule. And be supported by my 12" advancing skyray since it can fire all its SMS shots and its markerlights count as defensive weaponry with there Str n/a. AV13 front blocking line of sight to the kroot ends up helping this unit isolate a weaker enemy squad and has proven to work very well.

    Heavy support: With transports and vehicles in general being harder to kill in 5th edition, infantry units being able to run in the shooting phase. And units like genestealers being able to outflank (any infiltrator/scout) I have found broadsides are much more dangerous to use than before. This combined with the twin linked fusion blaster XV8's having a very difficult time producing solid results without the use of a pathfinder devilfish's marker beacon. I have grudgingly found that Railgun mounted hammerheads have become extremely valuable in 5th edition than ever before (having always used ionheads myself). Str 10 has always been valuable but in addition to AP1 now destroying vehicles on a 4+ instead of the base 5+ they have become godly.

    Also with stealth teams being able to markerlight units on the move with their new relentless rule I have found skyray's to be extremely effective. Even more so due to the fact that although a tank may be sitting out in the open a piece of terrain blocking half its body can easily confer a 4+ coversave. A seeker missiles ability to negate this scenario has given them a slight buff in my eyes.

    Overall the armies strengths work out like this:

    Tanks AV12-13 4+ coversave beyond 12" with 3 SMS systems able to pick off units out of line of sight anywhere withing 24" in addition to their previous abilities.
    An almost impossible to kill stealth markerlight team
    Two troop choices able to capture objectives, one being difficult to kill and another outflanking. While the entire army is able to contest objectives.
    Two deathrain suits and a commander able to earn points back at a potential 42" range.
    Anti-tank (6x BS4 Str7, 6x markerlit Str8, 1 Str10 AP1)
    Every unit semi-effective to effective at anti infantry killing.

    Last edited by eckyl; July 24th, 2008 at 19:40.
    "It's important to remember at all times that anyone who's done more than you has no life... Also, anyone who's done less than you is a noob."

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    The only real worry I see is that your troops are fairly minimal. If you have the models, I would replace the stealth suits with an 8-man Pathfinder unit, and bulk out the Firewarrior squad or even add a second with the saved points. If you assign the Devilfish to the Pathfinders then that satisfies the requirement, and under the new rules I believe the Firewarriors can still use it.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  4. #3
    Senior Member Spartan Command061's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    First I'll post the list, then do a short run through of why I have chosen what I have. Would love to hear any constructive criticism or idea's you guys might have.

    HQ: 87pts

    shas'el w/ plasma rifle + missile pod + multi-tracker
    87pts
    Pretty standard HQ, although a notable lack of a Targetting array which may result in less than expected performance. If you can find 10pts i'd definetly give this upgrade to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Elites: 287pts

    xv8 w/ TL missile pod, targeting array
    57pts

    xv8 w/ TL missile pod, targeting array
    57pts

    1x Shas'ui w/ Team leader + blacksun filter + markerlight + HW multi-tracker
    2x Shas'ui w/ drone Controller + marker drone
    173pts
    Nice sniper pair, nothing much wrong there, nicely covering the light vehicles giving your singular railgun breathing room. On the fence at the moment about stealth marker teams (you might have noticed the thread discussing them, i'm waiting to see how it pans out.) Although at this level it may be better to get the PF team and use the devilfish on your firewarriors. Or leave the FW's as is, and get another warfish (with 4 PF's) and load up the kroot in it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Troops: 280

    6x fire warriors w/ devilfish
    60pts
    f-w Devilfish w/ burst cannon + sms + multi-tracker + targeting array + disruption pod
    120pts

    10x kroot w/ 5x kroot hounds
    100pts
    Noticable lack of oomph from this sector. Possibly lose the stealth team entirely and add in a 12 strong FW team (and bump the 'fish unit up to full as well, this would mean losing a hound though). The problem I see for you is dealing with multiple horde units (imperial guard, orcs, tyranids), or indeed any force really, there isn't the firebase to mop up units after a heavy hitter has been through. 6 BS3 shots aren't going to do a whole ton.

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Heavy Support: 345

    sky ray w/ sms + multi-tracker + targeting array + disruption pod
    165pts

    hammerhead w/ railgun + sms + multi-tracker + target lock + disruption pod
    180pts
    Not to wild about skyrays but they're really more about what works for you, no major quibbles with 'em. The 'railhead is fine, if a bit expensive (you could lose the SMS in favour of a TA on the shas'el). Unless you feel trading the speed for 4 SMS shots is worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Primarily with this army I have gone for a min/max approach. I have taken what I feel is needed just enough for the squad to perform its given task. With the view in mind that I would rather have multiple squads that fulfill a role rather than a single squad that will always guarantee success.

    HQ: I feel that this is a shas'el that people have seen most often with the exception of the possible targeting array. It shouldn't need to much explaining beyond that.
    Firstly in a tournament sense you may be penalised for min/maxing. Secondly at this level it leaves you seriously underpowered if you lose even a single unit. Most armies should be able to keep rolling with the loss of a few units, not crippled by losing a few squads.

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Elite: I have fielded two deathrain suits able to stream out constant fire at up too 42" combined with their ability to move back out of line of sight. But while in 4th I would always have fielded them in two's, with the introduction of true line of sight and wounds being carried accross to models in a unit not in line of sight. I have found that I would rather two single suits jumping back behind cover and in the event that the enemy should for some reason manages to spot one. At least this error of mine wont result in the incoming fire killing both off.

    The stealth suits are a mobile markerlight team and I have found their ability to markerlight targets at 30" then jump back 6" has almost made them impossible to shoot down. In combination with their ability to negate coversaves, increase BS and assist in pumping out multiple seeker missiles without fear of return fire. Have proved invaluable.
    Depending upon terrain squads of two suits may/may not be viable. Think about what terrain you normally fight on and chose accoringly.
    If you feel that the stealth marker team is points effective then take them, but possibly at this level you don't have the surplus points (nearly 1/5 of your points in 4 models. As above you maybe better served by their abscense and the inclusing of another scoring unit (and a more formidable FoF team, which can better support the kroot, being able o absorb casualties and severely maim firebases.)

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Troops: Although many people I know have been telling me that because troops are all that are able to capture objectives in 5th, that half your army should be filled up with them. They never used those exact words, but when telling me what I should take thats what the cost tallied up to. And while I don't for one second doubt the strength of full 12man firewarrior squad riding around in a devilfish. Just two units of these can almost make up half my army. Over the last few games my approach has been to take a warfish and minimal 6man firewarrior squad and have my warfish do all the work. While in the last few turns fly it over to an objective and capture it from the troops just sitting inside. Hence the small size.

    Many people underestimate just how good a troop selection kroot have become now. And with all the posts floating around these forums discussing their strengths and the strength of their hounds I don't feel I need to list them here. But in many cases this unit will run with the outflank special rule. And be supported by my 12" advancing skyray since it can fire all its SMS shots and its markerlights count as defensive weaponry with there Str n/a. AV13 front blocking line of sight to the kroot ends up helping this unit isolate a weaker enemy squad and has proven to work very well.
    Keep in mind that your tanks are most certainly not godfalcons of yesterage, they're tough, granted, but a lascannon or a volume of autocannon (or equivellant) can severely ruin your objective snatching aspirations. Upon relying on the warfish to do all the work, your getting 4 shots (at a higher BS and no LoS needed) for the price of 12-24 shots (at a higher range, lower BS). Personally i think the warfish is a SUPPORT tank, mopping up what the fire warriors fullisade did not destroy.

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Heavy support: With transports and vehicles in general being harder to kill in 5th edition, infantry units being able to run in the shooting phase. And units like genestealers being able to outflank (any infiltrator/scout) I have found broadsides are much more dangerous to use than before. This combined with the twin linked fusion blaster XV8's having a very difficult time producing solid results without the use of a pathfinder devilfish's marker beacon. I have grudgingly found that Railgun mounted hammerheads have become extremely valuable in 5th edition than ever before (having always used ionheads myself). Str 10 has always been valuable but in addition to AP1 now destroying vehicles on a 4+ instead of the base 5+ they have become godly.

    Also with stealth teams being able to markerlight units on the move with their new relentless rule I have found skyray's to be extremely effective. Even more so due to the fact that although a tank may be sitting out in the open a piece of terrain blocking half its body can easily confer a 4+ coversave. A seeker missiles ability to negate this scenario has given them a slight buff in my eyes.
    Broadsides are now more vulnerable to the enemy (as everyone has sped up by D6), but not a whole lot more than before. Infiltrators still arrive the same distance away, outflankers pop up on a random edge so no guarrentees their (and by turn 3, when most reserves show up they should have killed/hurt whatever they're good against enough for the rest of the force to proceed without them. Also as they will undoubtedly be deployed in the rear of your lines, if the enemy goes for them he's condemed a unit to be inactive for the rest of the game (as you're mobile enough to get away)
    The skyray is probably a better source of ML at this level, as it comes with seeker missiles.

    Quote Originally Posted by eckyl View Post
    Overall the armies strengths work out like this:

    Tanks AV12-13 4+ coversave beyond 12" with 3 SMS systems able to pick off units out of line of sight anywhere withing 24" in addition to their previous abilities.
    An almost impossible to kill stealth markerlight team
    Two troop choices able to capture objectives, one being difficult to kill and another outflanking. While the entire army is able to contest objectives.
    Two deathrain suits and a commander able to earn points back at a potential 42" range.
    Anti-tank (6x BS4 Str7, 6x markerlit Str8, 1 Str10 AP1)
    Every unit semi-effective to effective at anti infantry killing.
    [/quote]

    Your stealth team will not like infiltrators/jump/fast assaulters, they're not quite as invincible as they seem, also deep strikers will shoot them up nicely (or in the case of guard, lob a demo charge at them)
    I disagree with the FW's being hard to kill, 6 men. If they show their face they die to the return fire, if they hide in the tank they're 60pts wasted in a potential deathtrap. 5thed has not made our tanks INVINCIBLE, just tough. Also the kroot will die to a determined assault or concentrated fire (both of which they will face if they're sitting on the objective). You want another unit to support and control more area (or lend more power to your focus point)

    You have the AT side covered though.

  5. #4
    Senior Member spec.ops's Avatar
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    Have you been able to play test this list with 5th rules?

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    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    Ty for your post spartancommand061 some interesting views things there

    Quote Originally Posted by spec.ops
    Have you been able to play test this list with 5th rules?
    Only been able to test this army once so far. Versed tyranids


    Grouped up as below he ran:

    Hive tyrant w/ enhanced senses + toxin sacs + flesh hooks + winged + TL devourer + TL devourer
    165pts


    Broodlord w/ feeder tendrils + flesh hooks + extended carapace
    86pts
    6x genestealers, acid maw
    120 [Infiltrating]


    14x spinegaunts
    70pts
    3x warriors, 3x deathspitter, 3x rending claws, enhanced senses
    90pts
    carnifex w/ TL devourers, TL devourers, enhanced senses, flesh hooks
    114pts


    20x spinegaunts
    100pts
    6x genestealers, flesh hooks
    102
    carnifex w/ scything talons, scything talons, adrenal glands (+1ws), flesh hooks
    106pts
    Zoanthrope w/ synapse creature
    45pts

    998pts

    First two turns all three sms systems guided by skyrays markerlights and a submunission shot from the hammerhead destroyed the 14spinegaunts. Since they where no longer shielding the warriors the my two suits took out 2 warriors. Shas'el failed to kill anything.

    third and 4th turn Stealth team arrived on the hive tyrant side behind the dakkafex, skyray shifted another 12" and between the two of them fired 4 seeker missles at it but rolled a 1 to wound on one failing to kill it :<. Trying to avoid the hivetyrant and his gay wings, stealth team gets within 12" of the board edge. And his genestealers just happen to show up on that side and wipe the unit out. 23 attacks hitting on 3+'s and wounding on 3+'s re-rolling missed hits and wounds is nasty . Nice combo of supporting biomorphs though. XV8's finish off the last warrior and put a wound on the carnifex. Hammerhead missfired sub shot at 2nd spine gaunts. 3 SMS kill the genestealers and put the brood on 2wounds. 4th turn kroot arrive and assult the spinegaunts. Dogs with higher initiative (4-5) kill 8 spinegaunts, kroot kill 3. Shas'el takes a wound of carnifex.

    5th turn Firewarrior Squad fly onto the objective the dakkafex was heading for. Two XV8's, shas'el, and skyray with one seeker missile hit, kills carnifex. leaving objective uncontested. Again 3 SMS fire killing the 6 genestealers hiding behind meleefex (no coversaves unless in area terrain or touching) Rail head sub misses again. Meleefex
    Charges in with last wound hivetyrant. Dogs strike at the same time as hivetyrant killing 5 spinegaunts. unit gets wiped out.

    6th Sub shot with 1 SMS kill last gaunts. Tanks XV8's block my objective. Hivetyrant flys in and kills 1 XV8. Game ends

    Objectives 1-0 my win.


    After all my worrying and concern with the hivetyrant killing my stealth team (which jetpack troops do well) I forget about the genestealers and they drift withing 10" of the board edge at the same time they show up.) I played a little more agressively with the kroot when they showed up using them to thin the 2nd spine squad and blowing it up. Rather than sticking them on an objective then using the SMS to kill off units advancing on it. I got cocky halfway through since my SMS where trashing units. Needed less ordinary terrain on the board and more area terrain such as a forest though. Becasue almost nothing got a save >_>
    Last edited by eckyl; July 27th, 2008 at 01:34.
    "It's important to remember at all times that anyone who's done more than you has no life... Also, anyone who's done less than you is a noob."

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    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    Btw sorry if the battle-report makes no sense I just copied what he wrote and added a bit.

    It's a shame his troop choices didn't get a chance to shine. I really like the list it makes a nice change from Godzilla lists.
    Last edited by eckyl; July 27th, 2008 at 01:36.
    "It's important to remember at all times that anyone who's done more than you has no life... Also, anyone who's done less than you is a noob."

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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Your points are off for your Deathrain Battlesuits, they should be 53 points a piece, not 57. I'm a bit worried about your lack of Troops, as 5th edition relies heavily on Troops and you're quite minimal on them. I'd look at getting a second Fire Warrior squad, personally, but that's just me.

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    Senior Member Spartan Command061's Avatar
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    Yeah Lost Nemesis is correct, you've done yourself out of 8pts!

    2 carnifexes at 1000pts? That's pretty mean, but you seemed to handle it ok. Like i said the stealth team is vulnerable to fast assaulters. (and outflankers as they'll usually be on the fringe of the fight.) I seriously agree with Lost Nemesis, your lack of troops is a worry, the stealth team just attracts to much heat being one of the ML's in your force. They're more easily ignored in 1500-1750pts, as their is more obvious threats running around.

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    Senior Member spec.ops's Avatar
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    Spartan Command061
    carnifexes at 1000pts? That's pretty mean
    And here I thought fielding 5 dakka build TMC's was generous in a 1000pts, lol.

    @eckyl
    At these low points S7 murders, so try to cram some more in - "hint" IH's cost only 120pts now!

    That’s 3 for 360pts XD

    Oh, and ML’s in a 1000pt list is going to cripple you more than help.

  11. #10
    Member eckyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Command061 View Post
    Yeah Lost Nemesis is correct, you've done yourself out of 8pts!
    lol thank you for noticing I completely missed it. I also just realized I could drop the BSF acting as a compulsory support system because the other suits took one. And replace it with the HW multi tracker meaning another 3pts .

    2 carnifexes at 1000pts? That's pretty mean, but you seemed to handle it ok. Like i said the stealth team is vulnerable to fast assaulters. (and outflankers as they'll usually be on the fringe of the fight.) I seriously agree with Lost Nemesis, your lack of troops is a worry, the stealth team just attracts to much heat being one of the ML's in your force. They're more easily ignored in 1500-1750pts, as their is more obvious threats running around.
    I once ran a Dakka flyrant, two dakka fex's and two 12man spinegaunt units in a 500pt battle. That being said I understand what you mean about the troop choices and the ML team. Seeker missiles with multiple ML's are the bane of big bugs as with other MC's.
    I have changed my play style with the stealth teams to deploying them from the start instead of infiltrating getting ML's from the beginning. Keeping a 5" radius around them that the skyrays ML's can draw line of sight too. And keeping 18" distance from the outside of the radius to any terrain or enemy unit. Meaning if a flying model/unit does wish to go after them. The stealth team isnt miles away and still close enough to get their 30" ML's in. While meaning anything that runs after them will have to spend at least 1 turn getting shot. And full marker light hits with seeker missiles two deathrains and 3 SMS should be enough to counter it. If it's tough (3+ save) It will usually mean the unit is severely weakened for its attempt at killing the stealths who can also then "J/r/J" to gain distance.

    I have seen a friend of mine running running two additional units of human auxiliaries 6man strong behind both of his hammerhead's with their bases almost touching the ground. He says in 5th edition true line of sight means they have a mobile AV13 bunker to hide behind as they advance on objectives. Two 6man units are 72 points and leave room for adding firewarrior squad up to 10man strong. This gives me 3 troop choices either in a transport or behind a AV13 tank. While still keeping an insane amount of firepower in an army of only 1000pts.

    Also I am vs a chaos player this arvo so I will let you know how it goes.

    The new list:

    HQ: 97pts

    shas'el w/ plasma rifle + missile pod + Targeting array + HW multi-tracker
    97pts

    Elites: 276pts

    xv8 w/ TL missile pod, targeting array
    53pts

    xv8 w/ TL missile pod, targeting array
    53pts

    1x Shas'ui w/ Team leader + multi-tracker + markerlight
    2x Shas'ui w/ drone Controller + marker drone
    170pts

    Troops: 280

    6x fire warriors w/ devilfish
    60pts
    f-w Devilfish w/ burst cannon + sms + multi-tracker + targeting array + disruption pod
    120pts

    10x kroot w/ 5x kroot hounds
    100pts


    Heavy Support: 345

    sky ray w/ sms + multi-tracker + targeting array + disruption pod
    165pts

    hammerhead w/ railgun + sms + multi-tracker + target lock + disruption pod
    180pts

    998pts

    Seriously considering changing troop choice to.

    Troops: 282

    9x fire warriors w/ devilfish
    90pts
    f-w Devilfish w/ burst cannon + sms + multi-tracker + targeting array + disruption pod
    120pts

    6x Human Auxiliaries
    36pts

    6x Human Auxiliaries
    36pts

    Brings the point total to 1000pts exactly.

    Also I wonder.. I swear back in 4th edition you needed line of sight at the begining of a turn in order to assault a unit in the assault phase. And I'm not sure if this does still apply to 5th. Have the rulebook here just cant find it with 2hrs sleep >_<. And I wonder how do stealth suits work in conjunction with that rule. Well really how do night fighting rules work in conjunction with that rule? Does a unit have to do a sight test at the beginning of its movement phase, Shooting phase assault phase even with some units having 12" assault?
    "It's important to remember at all times that anyone who's done more than you has no life... Also, anyone who's done less than you is a noob."

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