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Ok so here is my first attempt at a 5th edition list. I will post the list with brief explanations as to the reasons for each unit taken. I will expand if further explanation is needed.
2 X Shas'El
Fusion, Plasma, HW MT, TA 97pts X 2
A return to the Helios multi, not as daft as it sounds, the new rules are going to make it hard to pop vehicles from distance (Hammerheads and XV88’s); the Helios will work as Monat’s which will make them much easier to hide and also make it easier to negate cover saves by getting close to the target. I may use the Drones from vehicles to help provide mobile cover when on the move. I can also use these to boost other units (LDS and for hitting tough targets which other units are struggling against like Dreads etc).
2 X Death-rain teams
1 X team leader with Twin linked Missile pods, TA, HW TL, HW DC and Marker Drone
1 X XV8 with Twin linked Missile pods and TA 146pts X 2
These are going to be a very important unit. Again with the new rules for vehicle cover and as vehicles are tougher to crack it is going to be more important to get more volume of shots to hit. The Death-rain with the TA and the ML Drone will have a BS5 re-roll to hit which ensures a near 100% hit rate (the more shots hit the better chance to damage or stop a vehicle). The ML Drone can also be used to benefit either the DR unit or another Tau unit, making the unit versatile. Range is also an issue for XV8’s in the 5th in so far as they will be more reliant on it to survive. The parity of range between the MP and ML plus relentless rule makes the DR/ML Drone unit very survivable. A possible 42” between the unit and the opponents units will mean many weapons will not be able to reach the unit.
Stealth team1 team leader with HW TL, HW DC and ML Drone
5 Stealth’s (vanilla) 220pts
The Drone is used more for upping the BS of the unit or to knock down cover saves. Obviously it will also be able to ML for other Tau units. The Stealth field will offer a massive advantage in survivability when allied with the assault phase move.
12 Fire Warriors, 1 Shas’Ui upgrade, BK. All with Pulse Rifles 135pts
Devil-fish with Disruption pod 85pts
2 X 10 Kroot 70pts X2
2 X Kroot units10 Kroot and 7 Hounds 112pts
10 Kroot and 6 Hounds 106pts
These will be infiltrating or outflanking. I will also be further assessing the viability of using the Devil-fish to transport the 10 man units; maybe to objectives (these will be awesome as objective pill boxes). The hounds will make it the two Kroot units a viable assault unit and all the units will be valuable nuisance units.
8 Pathfinders with one Shas’Ui upgrade with HW TL 116pts
Devilfish with Disruption pod 85pts
Hammerhead X 2
Railgun, Gun Drones, Multi tracker, Disruption pods 175pts X 2
Gun Drones, TA, Multi tracker, Disruption Pods 165pts
The Gun drones are taken for a reason. I am going to drop these as soon as the vehicles are deployed and they will provide mobile cover saves for more valuable units (as well as nuisance factor and preventing assaults). With the Devil-fish this will provide 5 2 Drone units. I think this is better than taking Burst cannons which are hardly ever used and are not classed as defensive weapons anymore in 5th. The Gun drones will probably provide more firepower throughout the game than the Burst Cannons.
The list includes a total of 13 Marker lights and seven different units can be targeted a turn with the ML's. This gives me a lot of possibilities regarding reducing cover saves, Seeker launches, BS upgrading and so on. ML’s are going to be key for Tau success in 5th what with cover saves and units running. It is going to be vital to maximise any available firepower as quickly as possible to punch holes in units as they cross the playing field. The ML’s will also help to minimise the scatter of the Subs rounds by upping the BS of the HH’s to 5.
Note: I have typed this list from memory in my work lunch (I am awaiting delivery of my new home PC) so there may be a few points discrepancies. If there are I will rectify.
EDIT: I should point out I have played 5 friendly games so far with this list (2 Marine (1 BA and 1 Ultra), 1 Eldar and 2 IG). The Marines were pretty much as I expected, the Kroot were awesome against the BA's Death company (INT 5 helped no end), holding them in CC for two turns and taking 4 down which allowed me to stop them dead with shooting next turn. The Ultra player objective hugged and the ML's were key to him losing two objectives by reducing the cover saves. The BA player won but I beat the Ultra player easily. The Eldar player played badly as it was his 1st 5th edition game, but again the Kroot performed well and the DF transports proved useful for moving them around fast. THe IG games were fun, lots of shooting but again the ML's proved the key to winning as the IG could not remove the cover saves of my vehicles and troop units and the BS uprgades really helped with my shooting.
Last edited by Rikimaru; July 29th, 2008 at 16:30.
that is a hardy list man. I still wonder how much more effective a pathfinder markerlight source is than a highly mobile 3 man stealth team. Any insight?
Helios...A suit with out a MP, well you have always used them in your list so why not, but be wary of annihilation - 1 crisis equals 1 VP as opposed to a 3 man team.
When I see a ML I think of 12/24 to 18 Pulse shots, or a few RG slugs, but not for DR's and that goes double for TADR's. You could take 3 TADR's for 159pts and achieve 5 to 6 wounds than a potential 3 to 4 with your current 2.
Did you take the PF's over the MLSS's team because they don't fill an Elite slot?
What?! Only 2 heavies?!
How many 'Weapon Destroyed' does your RH/ SR need to be destroyed since you took GD's over BC's?
Dartimien. I like the Pathfinders for their sheer volume of ML's, I drop them in cover if possible and use them to really hit units (BS improvement for the shooting unit and lowering cover saves etc) and this volume of ML's is not possible with Stealth teams. I have also spread my ML compliment throughout the army and this either takes attention away from the PF team or conversley the opponent concentrates on the PF to the benefit of the other ML units. It works very well. The other benefit is the PF Devil-fish can now be used by other units, which means not paying for an extra DF for the FW and Kroot teams.
Ive played multiple games in 5th and really havent had any trouble with the large point, small unit, 3 man stealth markerlight team. I mean sure you dont get the volume of markerlights, but you also will not ever surrender a VP due to the loss of the markerlight team if you use them correctly. Pathfinders are just asking to be shot up the second your opponent realizes their potential for destruction.
Just a quick question on all those Gun drones on your fishes and hammerheads. I may have missed the thread but I was under the impression that the drones off our skimmers count as another unit and therefor count as another kill point if they are destroyed? If that is the case that list looks like it gives up a large amount of kill points if you play that mission. If this isn't the case then I would agree with you as the usefulness of the drones on our skimmers could prove extremely useful right from turn 1 vs the standard BC or SMS options.
Dartimien: I am very skilled at using Stealth's, I have used full teams for ever and never had much trouble keeping them alive because I never rely on the Stealth field. The point of the team is not to provide marker light support (though they can obviously) but to provide accurate volumes of fire at the flanks and rear of units. I think any tau player is aware of the Pathfinder situation; however I have 5 units with ML's so just concentrating on the Pathfinders is not going to garner the opponent much of an advantage. Having the ML presence spread throughout the army in hard to touch units and on the Skyray really makes it hard for opponents. If they concentrate on the Pathfinders they get hit by 4 other units, if they concentrate on all the units then his units are spread all over the place and no one unit is going to be punished overly.
Last edited by Rikimaru; July 31st, 2008 at 09:29.
The aim of my post was not to challenge your aptitude at handling stealth suits. I guess maybe the role of the Markerlight Stealth team is in a smaller point game however wierd that sounds. Smaller points means playing on smaller tables, which means spacing is much more important. Really just want to find a niche for 5th editions obvious creation of the SSML team
Also why does smaller points mean smaller tables, when I play any game from 1000 to 2500pts it’s on a 6 X 4 table with decent cover (at least the minimum recommended in the rule book). I do not think the new SSML team needs a niche, if it works it will be taken whatever the points value of the game (maybe 500pts would be pushing it)