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    1500 Dark Eldar List

    Hey!
    My first ever post!!!

    So, i've spent ages trying to make a perfect 1500 army list for my tastes and its such a struggle to fit everything in. thought I'd sign up and ask your opinions on the matter. Heres what i got so far

    HQ
    Archon
    Shadow field
    Agoniser
    Splinter Pistol
    Drazhar
    5x Incubi
    Incubi Master
    Raider 394

    Haemonculus
    Reaver Jetbike
    Hell Mask
    Scissorhands 70

    Elites
    10x Wyches
    Wych Weapons
    Succubi
    Raider 193


    10x Wyches
    Wych Weapons
    Succubi
    Raider 193

    5x Warp Beasts
    Beast Master 75

    Troops
    20x Warriors
    2x Splinter Cannon
    2x Blasters
    Sybarite 196

    20x Warriors
    2x Splinter Cannon
    2x Blasters
    Sybarite 196

    Fast Attack
    5x Hellions
    Sucubbus 106

    Heavy Support
    Talos 100

    comes to 1498 altogether.

    Main things i would like to know is if the warriors should be raider squads instead of 20 men, if the hellions are really worth it (i was thinkin of variety, so if my wyches dont perform - maybe they could have a lucky day), if the haemonculus is just cannon fodder and any other suggestions you can think of. Thanks for your time


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  3. #2
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Hey!
    My first ever post!!!

    So, i've spent ages trying to make a perfect 1500 army list for my tastes and its such a struggle to fit everything in. thought I'd sign up and ask your opinions on the matter. Heres what i got so far
    First of all Welcome to LO. Secondly Welcome to the DE forum and thirdly well done for choosing DE.

    1500 is indeed a struggle to fit all the shinies in, I'll go through your list and break it down, unit by unit, please don't be scared off by my (sometimes) harsh tone in posts. I can't analyse properly unless I'm critical and everyhting really is a suggestion not a command . Its important to play what you enjoy and have fun.

    So onto the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    HQ
    Archon
    Shadow field
    Agoniser
    Splinter Pistol
    Drazhar
    5x Incubi
    Incubi Master
    Raider 394
    Woah there nelly! Several probelms with this unit so I'll do em bullet point style

    1) Drazhar is not worht his points, hes OK if you want to play him, but not in less than 2000

    2) An incubi master is NEVER worth his points, hes really expensive and its just +1 attack on a normal Inc really.

    3) Its a bad plan to mix Agonisers and Punishers, Agonisers want you to fight big, tough monsters, punishers want you to fight numerous, weak (T 2-5) troops choices. If your taking Incs take a punisher.

    4) The archon is too expensive in this points size, your better off taking a Dracon with Combat drugs.

    5) You need Combat drugs.

    And the good stuff?

    5 incubi is a really good number (3-5 is about perfect, so good choice), the raider is a msut, as is the shadowfield, nice job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Haemonculus
    Reaver Jetbike
    Hell Mask
    Scissorhands 70
    Haemies aren't great in CC, I'd suggest tooling him up with a Destructor and using him as a close range shooting unit to back toher people assaults, especially on a JEtbike, hes really good at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Elites
    10x Wyches
    Wych Weapons
    Succubi
    Raider 193


    10x Wyches
    Wych Weapons
    Succubi
    Raider 193

    5x Warp Beasts
    Beast Master 75
    The beasts are really not much use without a portal, they'll just get shot.

    Wyches do much better in units of 5-6, and also need plasma grenades. Succubi require agonisers. I'd suggest dropping this to 2 6 man squads with grenades and an agoniser and dropping the beasts entirely, or 3 squads of 5 if you can find the extra 12 points (maybe drop 1 incubi or 2 warriors, something like that)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Troops
    20x Warriors
    2x Splinter Cannon
    2x Blasters
    Sybarite 196

    20x Warriors
    2x Splinter Cannon
    2x Blasters
    Sybarite 196
    These are OK, but really you need mroe troops than this. You can get more by geting rid of the hellions squad entirely (reasons mentioned below) and dropping the size of your warrior squads a bit. 15 is about as effective as 20, 'cause the extra 5 are mainly ablative wounds. Raider squads cost the same as 15 man squad so are equally good for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Fast Attack
    5x Hellions
    Sucubbus 106
    Hellions are a waste of points, they cant really do anything, they are slower than raider mounted warriors and point for point not as goo din combat, they can't frie and assault and they can't fleet. They are, sadly, rubbish.


    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Heavy Support
    Talos 100
    Taloi should only be used when you know exactly what its for its not a good idea to just throw one in and hope it makes it, they are very slow and play differently to your army as a whole, its not neccessarily abad choice it depdns on what its for. Unusual in a list without a portal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Main things i would like to know is if the warriors should be raider squads instead of 20 men,
    That depends on your plan, if you can tell us what you plan to do to win it will make answering these questins (and assessing your list well) a much easier task.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    if the hellions are really worth it
    No they're not.

    Ok there you go, please post back with any changes you've made and, if you can, a plan for what to do to win. Its important when playing DE to know what each of your units is for before the game starts, or its hard to win with.
    Last edited by karantalsis; August 1st, 2008 at 15:17.

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    new list

    Okay, made some (Heavy!) chances to my squad now, gonna have LOADS of raiders now, hoping that some might get through if i have more of them so here goes

    HQ - 330
    Dracon with Punisher, TH, Shadowfield
    Drahzar (i know i know, but everytime i used him he deals more wounds than my incubi in total!)
    4 incubi
    Raider

    yes, no drugs on my lord, can't help thinkin that i get another incubi for the same price, seems silly to me.

    Elites - 534
    3x
    6x Wych with weapons
    succubi with agoniser (and TH?)
    plasma nades
    raider

    Troops - 624
    4x
    10x Warriors
    Sybarite
    1x Blaster
    1x Splinter Cannon
    Raider

    1488pts atm, could probs get the extra points some how.
    Let me know what you think.
    Also, my primary opponent is my brother and his basic eldar army ( guardians, dire avengers, bikes, wraithlords, fire prisms, farseer and warlocks galore) so thats gonna be what i'm tryin to beat.

    thanks

  5. #4
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    I'll second everything Karantalsis said. He's generally right.
    HQ:
    If you take Drazhar out, you can put drugs on your lord, and add another incubi. In addition, drugs on a lord are scarier than an incubi in my opinion.
    Elites:
    The succubi can have splinter pistols, you don't need to pay out points for a tormentor helm. I'd also add another wytche to each squad, but that's my personal preference.
    Troops:
    The sybarites need some sort of upgrade, or there's no point in taking them. I'd also switch at least one squad into a supporting fire role, and put it on the ground with a few more bodies.

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    (hopefully) final list!

    HQ - 370
    Dracon, SF, Punisher, TH, drugs, animus vitae
    5 Incubi with plasnades
    2 Warrior with Cannons, plasnades
    Raider with Night Shield

    okay okay i fold, no Drazhar and drugs don't seem too bad. included the vitae for upto 6 str! heh. Half my raiders now have night shields so they can park away from dire avengers or guardians without gettin shot and within assulting range. also, 2 Warriors for some long range attacks to soften them before assaulting, no fleet of foot anyway so not a problem there.

    Elites – 603
    7x Wyches w/ WW and plasnades
    succubi with Agoniser and TH
    Raider with Night Shield

    7x Wyches w/ WW and plasnades
    succubi with Agoniser and TH
    Raider with Night Shield

    7x Wyches w/ WW and plasnades
    succubi with Agoniser and TH
    Raider with Night Shield

    Equiping THs on all the sucubbi does give me +1 Attack for a measly 5 points right? Hope they aren't a waste of points. Anyway, increased the wych squads to 7; seemed to be a more worthwhile number than 6, see how they play, might put it down again. 3 Squads of wyches, all in raiders, maybe a bit excessive but the army is designed to flatten the opponent before he knows its his turn. The more raiders moving full pelt = more 4+ cover saves and more chance my army will get through to deal some heavy damage. After dropping of the troops, raiders gonna be used as portable Lances for as long as they last.

    Troops – 527
    8 Warriors
    Splinter Cannon
    Raider

    8 Warriors
    Splinter Cannon
    Raider

    8 Warriors
    Splinter Cannon
    Raider

    15 Warriors
    2x Dark lance

    Didn't bother with the sybarites, not enough points to equip them, hopefully these will be the least of opponents troubles, will be deployed behind the wyches/lord squads to make up for the lack of night shield. These are here to finish off any scraps of army left after my wyches had there fun. warrior squad will most likely sit around sniping until no tanks left then advance a little, hopefully a final third wave.

    Problems with this army - Lack of troops (mostly elite choices!) but imo enough to take any objectives etc, not gonna be much of their troops left by the end hopefully

    No Webway - Imo, too slow and unreliable! Don't want my army held up till turn 4 or 5 because of bad rolls much better to just raider everyone forward, plus the lances mean no need for any heavy support.

    Raider Reliance - Yes, if the raiders die then not only with a good portion of my army but my tank busters will too, so unlikely im just gonna pray it doesnt happen, plus there is a 15man sniper squad that may be able to deal some dmg.

    Lack of Talos/Warp Beasts - This is a shame because i really like both of these units but the talos is unfortunately far too slow to be viable and warp beasts will just be cannon fodder when the only other unit left to shoot at is raiders

    9 Tormentor Helms
    6 Punishers
    3 Agonisers
    7 Raiders &
    9 Dark Lances!

    Anyone see any vital flaws (which are almost definately in there somewhere!) I'd be happy to hear your comments
    Keep in mind this army is mainly designed to take down Guardians and Dire Avengers where it's never a good idea to let them shoot you for too long, hopefully they shouldn't do too badly when I finish building it all up (not quite at the 7 raider mark just yet ^^)
    Hope you all like this army list, would be even better if I inspired anyone in there armys.

    Thanks alot for your comments and your time
    Last edited by Milna64; August 3rd, 2008 at 04:28. Reason: wrong font

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    Nice List there, but i guess you missunderstood something withe the TH. It only grants you the extra attack for a second CC-weapon. So if you have a agoniser and a splinterpistol, the TH is no use, cause you already get the extra attack from the Splinterpistol.

    The TH ist mainly for models with a two handed weapon, as there you would not be able to get the extra attack, but with the TH you do.

    As for the List. I like it, but since the 5te Edition I do not use the witches that often anymore, as they are pretty screwed if they wipe out the enemy in one three or 5 tunrs...

    But I guess thats just my opinion;-)


    Edit: what I forgot to meantion, I have not found a rule, that says, that troops on an fast open-top transporter can shoot even if the transporter has moved more than 6". The only rule i found is for fire hatches, and there it says, that you can only fire it the vehicle has not moved more than 6".
    Last edited by crazy_irish; August 3rd, 2008 at 12:45.

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    So take out the THs on the wyches then? okay! That's an extra few points to play around with
    Considering the amount of squads, I'm hoping that most of them will be tied up and unable to shoot at any victorious wyches. Far from having this army built anyway, just wanted to have an aim to build instead of random models.

    Even if the raiders can only shoot and move 6" (i'm sure it's 12 tho!) on turn 2 and onwards, its still a little portability, which is always nice

    Edit:Took the THs of the wyches and equiped my raider squads with blasters
    Last edited by Milna64; August 3rd, 2008 at 14:24.

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    *Feral Grin*
    There's no such thing as a final list. You're always going to be looking for that one last thing to change. Trust me, I have at least a dozen lists written up just for 500 points.
    Troops:
    If you're going for a pure gunboat squad on you raiders, then drop people and max out on special weaponry. On the ground, I'd drop the five extra warriors from the dark lance squad. I'd use all those points to either add another dark lance squad, or to add a spinter cannon squad.

    Ideally, I'd drop a wytche squad altogether to add in more troops, but that's mostly personal bias. I do love my warriors.

  10. #9
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    The warriors will hopefully get into close combat at some point and i don't think 5 would quite have the punch to have the combat over in 2 assault phases, after the THs were taken out all these squads will be armed with blasters. including anymore foot soldiers will diminish the effect of the initial punch.

    Like you said tho, this list is not written in stone and changes will have to be made depending on how it plays.

  11. #10
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Me again . This list is alot sleeker than the previous one so there won't be as much to say, fortunately for us both . Good job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    HQ - 370
    Dracon, SF, Punisher, TH, drugs, animus vitae
    5 Incubi with plasnades
    2 Warrior with Cannons, plasnades
    Raider with Night Shield

    okay okay i fold, no Drazhar and drugs don't seem too bad. included the vitae for upto 6 str! heh. Half my raiders now have night shields so they can park away from dire avengers or guardians without gettin shot and within assulting range. also, 2 Warriors for some long range attacks to soften them before assaulting, no fleet of foot anyway so not a problem there.
    I'm not so sure the night shields are neccessary at this points cost, your assault range is 21" (12" raider move, 2" disembark, 1" base, 6" assault move) so you should be able to sit outside thier range even without the night shields and still be in assault range. Other than that it looks fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Elites – 603
    7x Wyches w/ WW and plasnades
    succubi with Agoniser and TH
    Raider with Night Shield

    7x Wyches w/ WW and plasnades
    succubi with Agoniser and TH
    Raider with Night Shield

    7x Wyches w/ WW and plasnades
    succubi with Agoniser and TH
    Raider with Night Shield

    Equiping THs on all the sucubbi does give me +1 Attack for a measly 5 points right? Hope they aren't a waste of points. Anyway, increased the wych squads to 7; seemed to be a more worthwhile number than 6, see how they play, might put it down again. 3 Squads of wyches, all in raiders, maybe a bit excessive but the army is designed to flatten the opponent before he knows its his turn. The more raiders moving full pelt = more 4+ cover saves and more chance my army will get through to deal some heavy damage. After dropping of the troops, raiders gonna be used as portable Lances for as long as they last.
    THs won't give you an extra attack (its +1 attack for an extra close combat weapon they give you, which you get from the pistol anyway, as I think has already been said). Wyches are not units to "flatten" an enemy they don't actually do much damage, about the same damage output as warriors to be fair. They are very good tarpits and anti elites units, but aren't that great at killing basic troops as when doing this they are not using any of their special rules (which you pay for!)

    For this reason I would suggest that you keep this in mind while playing them and, if you agree once you've had a game, switch one squad for extra warriors.

    Raiders don't last long, but with lots they do fine as floating guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Troops – 527
    8 Warriors
    Splinter Cannon
    Raider

    8 Warriors
    Splinter Cannon
    Raider

    8 Warriors
    Splinter Cannon
    Raider
    If you want these in CC they need Sybs with Agos (or punishers and THs), if they are pure gunboats these are fine. If you are adding syb+ago thats a grand total of 84 extra points, not a huge investment for the killing potential provided, could be gianed by dropping night shields, warriors from the dark lance squad (see below) or a combination of things (say a wyche here, a ngiht shield there, a few warriors).

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    15 Warriors
    2x Dark lance
    You don't need the extra 5 wounds on these, drop them .

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Didn't bother with the sybarites, not enough points to equip them, hopefully these will be the least of opponents troubles, will be deployed behind the wyches/lord squads to make up for the lack of night shield. These are here to finish off any scraps of army left after my wyches had there fun. warrior squad will most likely sit around sniping until no tanks left then advance a little, hopefully a final third wave.
    Your wyches are not as hard hitting as you think, a good portion of most DE armies punch in a cc force comes from agoniser wielding sybarites that double assault units with their wychey brethren. A syb with an aggo is pretty much as good as a succubus (and cheaper).

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Problems with this army - Lack of troops (mostly elite choices!) but imo enough to take any objectives etc, not gonna be much of their troops left by the end hopefully
    As I've said wyches don't kill all that much. More troops would serve you well, but if youjust beef up the ones you've got a tad they should do fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    No Webway - Imo, too slow and unreliable! Don't want my army held up till turn 4 or 5 because of bad rolls much better to just raider everyone forward, plus the lances mean no need for any heavy support.
    Webway is good in a WWP list, but no tin a none WWP list . Its cool without it. (I'll explain why its actually reliable and what you percieve as "slow" is actually a good thing if you ever make a portal list, this isn't the place).

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Raider Reliance - Yes, if the raiders die then not only with a good portion of my army but my tank busters will too, so unlikely im just gonna pray it doesnt happen, plus there is a 15man sniper squad that may be able to deal some dmg.
    This is not too much of an issue due to raider abundance methinks. Remember you don't have to reveal whats in which raider (provided you make a note of it before the game and theres a way to tell them apart)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Lack of Talos/Warp Beasts - This is a shame because i really like both of these units but the talos is unfortunately far too slow to be viable and warp beasts will just be cannon fodder when the only other unit left to shoot at is raiders
    These are exactly the reasons they don't fit your list and why they are great in portal lists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    9 Tormentor Helms
    6 Punishers
    3 Agonisers
    7 Raiders &
    9 Dark Lances!
    Need more Agos! and THs do squat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milna64 View Post
    Anyone see any vital flaws (which are almost definately in there somewhere!) I'd be happy to hear your comments
    Keep in mind this army is mainly designed to take down Guardians and Dire Avengers where it's never a good idea to let them shoot you for too long, hopefully they shouldn't do too badly when I finish building it all up (not quite at the 7 raider mark just yet ^^)
    Hope you all like this army list, would be even better if I inspired anyone in there armys.

    Thanks alot for your comments and your time
    Looks none too shabby, for beating up guardians though I'd take Warriors over wyches (more numerous, have Splinter Cannons, Syb is as good as a suc). For Dire avengers it depends on their initiative, which I can't remember, if its 4 warriors, if 5 wyches. For Scorps, Banshees and the like I'd use Wyches.

    Also Scorps vs Incs is a great grudge match (they have the same founder, don't you know?)
    Last edited by karantalsis; August 4th, 2008 at 13:03.

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