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    Brand new to the game 1st army 1500 point

    Moved too new thread with new list.

    Last edited by Kenshar; October 29th, 2008 at 09:06. Reason: Remaid army

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    here are your main faults

    -you need an HQ and 2 troops and you don't have an HQ
    -i should put the crisis battle suits in one unit(opinion)
    -you have to split your fire warriors in to units, because the maximum of a unit is 12
    -just one kroot in a unit may be upgraded to a shaper
    -do you have the tactics from the GWS site?
    -you devilfishes have to be taken with the troops, so they aren't fast attack
    -on this forum you must give points per unit

  4. #3
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    -on this forum you must give points per unit
    @grotsnik

    Where does it say you must give the points for each unit? I've always seen people give totals for a section or no points at all. Additionally, you might have considered helping him with his list a little more. But you did at least point out the key problems.

    1 XV8 Crisis Battle suit (Team Leader and Shas'Vre) with Airbusting Fragmentation Projector, Missile Pod, and Targetting Array.
    As the guy above me pointed out twice, for he accidentally double posted. You lack an HQ. Take this crisis suit and use him as your HQ. Something tells me your paying way too much for him.

    With a crisis suit unit you can either upgrade a model to team leader or to shas'vre, not both.

    But you want to make this your HQ character. When you make this your HQ he'll cost a bit more. Make him a Shas'el and keep that targeting array on him. After that I recommend giving him a cyclonic ion blaster and a plasma rifle. They'll kill a lot more then the missile pod and afp.

    2 XV8 Crisis Battle suits with TL Missile Pods and Targetting Arrays
    These are actually fine, you won't be hunting troops with these unless there are no vehicles on the table. These can glance AV13 so you'll want to focus on light vehicles and heavy troops with these before the smaller guys, unless the small guys are the real threat.

    23 Fire warriors (2 of them are Shas'ui and carry Hardwire Target Locks and Marker Lights)
    As already noted you have to look at the maximum and minimum sizes that squads can be. Sadly to say Fire Warrior squads have a max unit size of 12. To some extent I guess you understood this as you sorta have 2 Shas'uis.

    What you'd actually want to do with these squads is break them in half, run 2 squads of 12, each one with a shas'ui who has a bonding knife. Markerlights are nice, but there are other units that can provide them and aren't required for capturing objectives. Additionally being able to regroup is a lot better given that Tau are not fearless.

    20 Kroot Carnivores (2 upgraded to Shapers) +6 Armour save given to the other 18 to make them all have +6.
    Again you must break this unit into 2 separate units if you wish to run 2 shapers. Additionally your better off not listing the save and instead writing out what the save is called.

    2 Devilfish transports with Targetting Arrays, Fletchette Dischargers, Disruption Pods, and 1 Seeker Missile for each.
    As already noted these aren't fast attack, they are "attached" to whatever squad you bought them for, after first turn they can pick up anybody not in a battlesuit. Your best off dropping the seeker missiles, seeker missiles are more of a anti-space marine thing then anti-tank unless its transports and light ones at that. Drop the targeting arrays no point to them, and drop the fletchette dischargers. Additionally your shas'ui would not be able to fire his markerlight after hoping out of his vehicle.

    3 XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (1 Team Leader/ Shas'Vre Upgrade) with Targetting Arrays and the Leader with Hard-Wired Drone Controller and a Marker Drone.
    Drop the marker drone and I'll suggest to you a better use for getting your marker lights that is cheaper. Ok if your going to upgrade again its either team leader or shas'vre not both. Second drop the targeting arrays on these guys its why they are twin-linked. Instead give them A'S'S = Advanced Stabilaztion System- pardon my spelling. being able to move and fire those weapons is a much better deal for them.

    1 Hammerhead Gunship with a Railgun Turret, Two Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod and 2 Seeker Missiles.
    Again drop the seeker missiles, unless your playing against a mechanized list you'll have little need for them and even then you'll only be able to take out AV10 reliably. Replace the seeker missiles with a multitracker so that this thing can move further and fire most or all of its weapons.

    2 Sniper Drone Teams
    Finally- Get rid of these, as cool as they are they aren't worth it, if your spotter dies, you lose the drones he was controlling. Replace this unit with 2 units of Pathfinders. Pathfinders go in your fast attack section, you can give each pathfinder unit a devilfish from the two you have, they are each required to have one, but as soon as the game begins other units may use the fish. Pathfinders provide markerlights. Additionally if you still want some rail rifles you can take 2 teams of 8 each one with 2 rail rifles, and then 6 markerlights, although you may want to take 3 rail rifles control yourself and dont, markerlights are far more important, they increase your chances of hitting, and they lower your opponents cover saves, and they are a lot more useful on a unit that can't capture objectives.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
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    Sorry I didn't break them up the right way... The Fire Warriors and Kroot are two units... and all the suits are in the same unit... I didn't know I needed to put them on the same lines vs seperate lines to show them that way. I am in class atm and don't have my HQ choices in front of me, but I will reform the list tonight right after class so that it shows they are in different units and add an HQ. The devilfish are the transport for the two Fire Warrior troops. I will look into taking the snipers out.. .also did I meke the right choice by giving some of my units Targetting Arrays or can you tell me which ones will need it and which ones don't.... Sorry for all the confusion. This is my first swing at any of this. Thanks and please keep the input coming.

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    [quote=Pathofskulls;1285029]@grotsnik

    Additionally your shas'ui would not be able to fire his markerlight after hoping out of his vehicle.



    Why can't he use a markerlight after riding in a Devil Fish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pathofskulls View Post
    @grotsnik


    Drop the marker drone and I'll suggest to you a better use for getting your marker lights that is cheaper. Ok if your going to upgrade again its either team leader or shas'vre not both. Second drop the targeting arrays on these guys its why they are twin-linked. Instead give them A'S'S = Advanced Stabilaztion System- pardon my spelling. being able to move and fire those weapons is a much better deal for them.

    The book states: One Shas'ui per team may be designated as a team leader at +5 points, and may select items from the Battlesuit Wargear list. A Shas'ui team leader may be upgraded to a Shas'vre for an additional 5 points."

    This makes it seems as if upgrading them to both is the whole point. Why are you saying I can't do that?

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    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    @Kenshar:
    Why can't he use a markerlight after riding in a Devil Fish?
    Markerlights are classed as Heavy Weapons. You cannot move and shoot with such a weapon. When the Shas'ui descends from the DF he counts as moving so you lose at least one turn of shooting from the ML.

    This makes it seems as if upgrading them to both is the whole point. Why are you saying I can't do that?
    I think there's been a little confusion here. It would be the same as having a soldier with corporal's stripes and sergeant's stripes at the same time on the same guy.

    A Team Leader gets to take all the nice stuff from the Battlesuit armoury, but he has to be upgraded to Shas'vre before he can take the *really nice* Special Issue stuff. He is no longer therefore a Team Leader. If you treat the upgrades as corporal and sergeant then it makes it clearer to understand.

    One of the most basic pieces of advice I can pass on to you may seem like I'm being cheeky/insolent, but it is genuinely one of the best things you can do when starting out with Tau (or any army for that matter). That piece of advice is to read your codex carefully and then re-read it twice or three times before you start to think about putting army lists together. There is a great deal of information which needs to be assimilated and understood in the Tau Empire Codex (as with all codices), and a good deal of it also needs to be read in conjunction with the rulebook. The concept of Markerlights being given to troops mounted in a Devilfish would be one such example: if you don't know the rules for heavy weapons use, then you may automatically assign them to units which may end up not being able to make full use of them, as I explained above. Also, a Markerlight in a Fire Warrior team costs (effectively) double its own points so you're giving a lot of % of the army list points to something which will not get to fire every turn if the Shas'ui is in a Devilfish for a turn or two. In other words, it's a bit of a waste of points.

    However, never fear - the Tau players here at Librarium Online are always on hand to help you out with little details like that. It is important though that you do read the codex carefully, along with the rulebook. Personally I have been using the TE codex since its inception and I'm still coming across tiny nuances I haven't spotted before. And I did read it carefully!

    Hope this was of use to you, and welcome to the Greater Good!

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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    Senior Member Castellan Green's Avatar
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    Marker lights are heavy weapons.

    And I don't have my codex with me but I always thought it was one then the other. As in a team leader is in charge but hasn't been promoted to Shas'ui yet.
    WHich is 10pts, in my opinion, but if its one or the other then it only makes sense to take the shas ui, as both can take equipment but only the shas ui has +1 Ld

    (no codex to double check that by the way)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenshar View Post
    I am trying to get a grasp on the tactics and army building of the game. I haven't really even read the rule book yet and I am waiting for my first set of figures to arrive at my local shop. While I am waiting I put together this army list. Please give me some criticism and reasons behind them. please read it carefully. Rules that might apply that you know I might not. Thanks a ton.

    PS. If you have any links to good army list that I should look at link them.


    Elite Units:
    1 Squad of 3
    2 XV8 Crisis Battle suits with TL Missile Pods and Targetting Arrays
    1 XV8 Crisis Battle suit (Team Leader and Shas'Vre) with Airbusting Fragmentation Projector, Missile Pod, and Targetting Array.

    Total Points: 183
    Took these to hop in and out of cover to put pressure on Enemy units and make them stay away from long range units. Took the one Airbusting because it seems like it would be good when alot of troops are coming up on them. Gave them all Targetting Arrays to up Ballistic Skill.

    I'd separate out the suits, they can't go below 50% squad size if there are only 2 of them. Grab a commander and some more low AP weapons.

    Troops:

    23 Fire warriors (2 of them are Shas'ui and carry Hardwire Target Locks and Marker Lights) (two seperate squads of 11 and 12 for the two devil fish)

    Drop the HW-TL and the Marker Lights, just have 2x 12 FW squads with a Shas'ui that has a bonding knife.

    20 Kroot Carnivores (2 upgraded to Shapers) +6 Armour save given to the other 18 to make them all have +6. (2 seperate squads of 10)
    Shapers aren't worth it in my opinion. Just take 2 squads of 10 kroot.

    Total Points: 480
    The Fire Warriors are my line holders. Will put them in devilfish and unload to hold a line. They will Stay behind the vehicles and fire under them (I heard you can do this). Gave the two upgrades and markers to help with the Seeker Missiles and sniping.
    The Kroot will stay in woods/ terrain 7 inches so they can fire out but no return fire. Use them to flank and control opponents troop movements. (Gave the 18 of them that arn't Shapers saves because I think the shapers come with the plus 6).

    You are correct about being able to shoot through the Devilfish. The 6+ Armor save that shapers give isn't worth it at all. Almost every weapon is at least AP 6, so it's a waste of points.

    Fast Attack Units:

    2 Devilfish transports with Targetting Arrays, Fletchette Dischargers, Disruption Pods, and 1 Seeker Missile for each.

    Drop the TA's, FD, and the seekers, but keep the Disruption Pods, they're amazing. By the way, these aren't Fast Attack choices unless you take them with Pathfinders, which I highly suggest.

    Total Points: 220
    Described above. Used as shields for Fire Warriors and line holders themselves. Seeker Missiles also give them sniping options.

    Enemies can fire back through the Devilfish.


    Heavy Support Units:

    3 XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (1 Team Leader/ Shas'Vre Upgrade) with Targetting Arrays and the Leader with Hard-Wired Drone Controller and a Marker Drone.

    Not a bad idea, but drop the Marker Drone, (Use Pathfinders) and put a shield drone there instead.

    2 Sniper Drone Teams

    Can't vouche for these, I've never gotten any. However, from what I've heard, these are fairly good as a HS choice, but they're not mobile, so you may want to put another hammerhead here instead.

    1 Hammerhead Gunship with a Railgun Turret, Two Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod and 2 Seeker Missiles.

    I'd drop the Burst Cannons and put a Smart Missile System here instead, it can fire at targets that aren't in line of sight. Also drop the Seeker Missiles as usual.

    Total Points: 615
    The team of three Broadsides and Tank are my artillary. Will stay in the back and snipe. Tank can also be used to watch over my flanks and protects the Broadsides.
    Took 2 Sniper Teams to add to my ranged power and gives me the ability to put more markers on targets. They will probably stay in the edge of cover or in the back.

    You have 1 too many Heavy Support Choices.

    TOTAL POINTS 1498


    So... there it all is. Tell me what you think... and please let me know if I broke any rules or made stupid newbie mistakes. Again thanks a ton.

    Not a bad list, just fix up the vehicles, add pathfinders, add a commander, and remove those seekers! Good luck and have fun with your army!


    Quote Originally Posted by eiglepulper View Post
    @Kenshar:

    One of the most basic pieces of advice I can pass on to you may seem like I'm being cheeky/insolent, but it is genuinely one of the best things you can do when starting out with Tau (or any army for that matter). That piece of advice is to read your codex carefully and then re-read it twice or three times before you start to think about putting army lists together.

    Hope this was of use to you, and welcome to the Greater Good!

    E.
    This is so true, best advice for new players of any army. Read your codex!
    Last edited by Nyxos; October 29th, 2008 at 02:32.


    Green Tide: 4000pts

  11. #10
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
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    Go figure you go away for a few hours and miss everything. When you decide to put up a new list I shall post on that one.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

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