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Well....As a long time eldar player it shocks me to say it, but i think that the call of the dark eldar has lured me
yes, looking through a friend of mines codex and seing my new favourite model at AUS GD i think i may do a wych army, this is just what i had to srart with...idead+comments are appreciated
10 wych bodyguard
4 dark lances
yesss as above, first list, comments apreciated...
I don't play wych cults myself so can only offer you limited insight but one thing I'd suggest is replacing some (if not all) of those shredders with blasters. You've got very little anti-armour otherwise and blasters are just generally more useful against most armies, plus they're half the cost
Nurse by day, Haemonculus by night
Ditto on the blasters from Matty, you need more anti-armour. The problem with shredders is that they might backfire and hit you! Also:
1- take the scythes off the ravager, replace it with another disintegrator.
2- scourges=no no, esp a squad of 10. What are you using them for? Could 2 units of warriors with 2 DLs each do it better?
3- Only one raider? A wych cult needs to hit the enemy, and fast. You have 6 wych squads, and one raider for transport. Drop the raider squad and use points saved from the scouges to buy some. 3 should be sufficient. You should then be hitting the enemy nice and quickly.
4- Lelith's unit drop to 9. They can fit in a raider now, unless you plan to give the 12" assault drug. In which case fair enough, but if a couple of other units get it too then they may as well jump in a raider. Actually, a squad of wyches with 12" assault drug in a raider is a pretty nasty thing! Esp. when you have 3. Turn 1 assaults!
5- Plasma grenades. You have none. At least get some for the agonisers if nothing else (you can buy them inividually for succubi from the wargear section).
I don't want to seem discouraging, but these are all things I came across whilst doing a cult army of my own.
Good luck with it though, which model was it that inspired you?
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Greetings fellow 40k minds
So, apparently you have been stickybeaking around in MY codex. Well, at least I am glad to be of some inspiration. Anyway, with a Wych List, there are some things which I think to be essential.
1. At least one Succubus with an Agoniser. That way, they can be adept at huntin those pesky MCs or if you really want to any of those vehicles that are running rings around (which is highly unlikely) but you get the idea.
2. Blasters. Alright, Shredders, are of some use, what with the new "No-Partials" rule, but at AP - it is going to be difficult to penetrate that armor. EVen Termegaunts and Boyz get a save with them. I would seriously consider more blasters than Shredders, as they are an assault form of the DL, and much more adept at taking out the HQ unit, and/or any troops if you have a lot of Wyches.
3. Plasma Grenades. It is no good giving up your god-like Intiative of Hesperax (the source of his inspiration) when charging at a coward in cover. Try and give each Succubus (make some) and the Wych Bodyguard P.G, and watch them reap the benefits.
Those are the basic and most essential necessities. As for everything else, I agree with what the others have said, in particular with the Scourges and the HQ squad. Lower these guys (and gals) to 9, and replace the Scourges with two squads of Warriors. That way, you save up a Space Marine Chapter amount of points, which you could spend on a Raider for the HQ, and you are able to take a lot more firepower and CC, to support your horribly armored Wyches, and you have two Sybarites to dish out, which I would give one a Punisher/T.Helm combination (for troop slaughtering) and the other Poisoned Blades (for all around effectiveness). With the Ravager, however I would not give it Scythes. Charging a Ravager into CC is tantamount to suicide, so I would rather have a Horrofex to stop the enemy in its tracks, or if the situation really calls for it, a Night Shield. Give a Blaster to the Raider Squad to do.
However on a personal note, with the Warriors, have you ever thought about a Gunboat or Super Gunboat? Because the Raider is not a Dedicated Transport, a Warrior squad with 2 SC and 2 Blaster can ride around in the Raider if the Raider Squad had just disembarked, and they stick around as half a Sniper Squad if they have a Dark Lance, perfect for taking out those annoying weapons platforms, or high powered weapon squads, when used with the DL on the Raider itself, or in your case the Dissie.
Anywho, seems to me like you have a basic understanding of the DE. Its all about the games you play. You seem to be pretty good with the Eldar, but the DE are completely different. We are not a shooty army. We are not a close combat army. We are a shooty and close combat army. Use these to your benefit, and you will prevail.
Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
thanks a lot guys,
seeing as i dont have hawkuli's codex here at the moment... (dammit xD) i cant revise my list but rest assured i will be scabbing it tomorrow at school
and it was the lelith model which inspired me, awesome stuff lol
thanks guys, revised list up tomorrow, watch this space
One could write a tactica just on Lelith herself and the ideas behind her use let alone the entire list. I suppose you gonna hear it regardless so here are my ideas based on being mainly a wych cult wwp player in 4th edition. 5th edition has its challanges now and the cult in general has become a little more trickier with the whole troops being scoring and massacre rolls becoming consolidation rolls, grrr!
Looking at the list I am surprised to find that there are no raiders for any of your wych units. I have no advice for wych units that don't have raiders other than, don't do it.
Next I notice there are no succubi for the squads. I have no advice for wyches without succubi but again I say don't do it.
And again, I notice that there is only 1 power weapon in the list (the one that automatically comes with Lelith). Not sure if that is what you intended, I have no advice if you did.
So I will offer a little (and I do mean little) wych 101 advice cause I hate to see wych cult squads get massacred. Let's look at Lelith a little bit. Her price is a bargain if you compare it to a regular Archite with the same gear. She is a little better than the standard in her characteristics as she has a better WS but her value comes in to play when you consider she comes with the shadowfield and agoniser/pistol combo and the ability to pick her combat drug if she has a retinue (otherwise without a retinue her combat drug would have to be random). Also take note that she does not have plasma grenades and she will strike last when charging into or out of cover (unless you have chosen the “always strike first” drug which I hope you didn’t).
Is she worth taking without a retinue? I would say no, the whole point in taking her is for taking a retinue and getting to choose her combat drug – otherwise, I would easily take an Archite. An Archite is a stronger model in that you get to choose all the wargear and that alone would make the Archite a better choice especially if you like using plasma grenades, a punisher/t-helm and the animus vitae with trophy racks in which I think is the most lethal IC in the game but you are going to pay close to 170 points for it.
Back to Lelith, is taking her with a retinue include a succubus with an agoniser a good idea? Absolutely, at least with the wyches and succubus you can give them plasma grenades to retain their initiative while Lelith’s is a “1”. Having another agoniser in the squad will allow you to get some agoniser hits in first before Lelith does. My retinue succubi have an agoniser, pistol and plasma grenades and the wyches do not carry blasters. The squad does have wych weapons and plasma but essentially the retinue squad of wyches are for close combat so I do not give them blasters. If they are not in close combat then they should be “running” to get into it, no time to shoot blasters (especially if you are going to run them on foot across the board with no raider).
Sometimes when points allow it I will take a Dracite as well. I like to put this guy in with Lelith and her retinue and if opportunity warrants it I got a raider of 3 agonisers (Lelith, Dracite and the retinue succubus) that can tackle anything in the game with 2 legs in about a round or round and a half. I like the Dracite riding in this raider simply because the Dracite can either charge with Lelith or can charge a different target altogether – some like to skip the Dracite altogether and I can agree with that too, it just depends on the how many points I am playing (at 1500 you can do without easily).
Would I run Lelith in a web way portal (wwp) list or in a raider rush list? At 1500 I would opt for a raider rush list and would definitely ensure that she and all her wyches are riding in raiders. They are too fragile to run on the ground naked (bikini’s really) and with wyches being scoring units its “open season” on them, they are sitting ducks. As far as I am concerned if you are taking wyches in your list then its automatically going to include a raider – if I only have points just for the wyches and not the raider then I do not take them at all – its that important to me.
What drug would I choose for Lelith’s retinue? That would depend on the opponent, mission, deployment, terrain and if I am moving first or second in the turn. In 4th edition when you could massacre and consolidate into other enemy units (and roll armies) I chose the 12” charge drug as it ensured me a sense of safety that I could always get her into combat where it was safe. Now with 5th edition I tend to like “re-roll misses” when fighting tough armies and I like to take “extra attack” when fighting hordes with weak armor (like orks). 12” charge is still fairly popular with me but I am using it less depending if I think I can get a good deployment with good cover.
What does the other wych squads look like? My wych squads are pretty much the same no matter if I play raider rush list or a wwp list. They look like this:
Succubus, agoniser, pistol, plasma grenades and wych weapons
7 wyches, 2 blasters, plasma grenades and wych weapons
Raider, dark lance and sometimes a horrorfex.
That’s a total of 8 wyches on a raider and if they are going to be “troops” in my list then they are usually put into reserve. If they are “elites” in a Kabal then they are starting on the board. I find 8 wyches with 2 blasters to be just as efficient as 10 wyches without blasters – the 2 blaster shots before the charge will make up for the 2 wyches and save points as well, its cheaper. Do I notice a difference between the two, not at all and with the room on the raider I can decide to attach a Dracite to them if I like in case you get a “Dawn of War” deployment (in which Lelith would not be able to be deployed, Lelith+retinue+raider = 3 hq units).
As for shredders? I do not like them as they “compete” with what you would want to do with the wyches, crowd control. Shredders could easily kill enough models for you to fail a charge. If you were charging and I had to remove models from a blast template where do you think I will remove the models? I will do whatever I can to ensure you fail your charge so I can rapid fire your sorry “6+” armor save wyches. If your plan was to keep your wyches on the raider and fire shredders from the raider then I could see a weak reason but I must also question why you would want to do that when raider squads and warrior squads do shooting so well. Stick with the blasters and try not to cause your target to take a morale check and run away, that is just as devastating as failing your charge.
Hopefully that provides some reasoning for the changes I am suggesting and some of the other are suggesting as well. I can’t see this list doing much other than running off the table.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
I have to echo Kwikwag's comments. If I take wyches a succubus with agonizer and plasma grenades and a raider is compulsory. Night shields are optional and horrofex are optional on the raider and blasters are optional for the squad.
The problem is, if you are playing anyone who knows what wyches can do they will make sure they dont get anywhere near their units on foot, and even lasguns slaughter wyches.
hmm...just been thinking
8wyches+scubbus w/agoniser+2 blasters+raider = 201pts
5x these as troops choices 1005pts
with lelith+8wyches+scubbus w/agoniser+2blasters+raider =290
now im left with 205 points left to buy anti armour, what do you think i should put in?
Farseer_Matt, I should point out to you that you have your points a little bit muddled. Firstly 8 Wyches + Succubus w/Agoniser and 2 Blasters and a Raider = 189 points, and 5 squads of these guys will equal only 945 points. Next, with Lelith and her Retinue, they total 279. All in all, the total cost is 1224, and you want to make a 1500 point list, hence you have 276 to spend. This makes your choices more broad. Personally, I have to agree with everyone else, there is not a lot of firepower and you do not want to give up the god-like Intiative of the Wyches. Therefore, main priority is putting some Plasma Grenades and most importantly those dreaded Wych Wepaons. I can only hope you just 'forgot' about them. Next, I would most definitely put a Ravager in there, and since you are versing the same armies I will be mainly, put on a Dissie and two DLs. Now lets see our Ork opponent badmouth that! Oh, and a Night Shield too. This will take up roughly half of what you have left, which then I would include a Warrior Squad consisting of 12 individuals with 2 DLs and 2 Blasters, and sit them back as a Sniper Squad, which should cater for some more Anti-Armor.
Anywho, let's hope you have fun with DE. I know I do.
Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Q_Q yes...i did only "forget" about the wych wepons lol
and seeing as i have no codex here at the moment (grrr) i may very well have gotten my points muddled.
ill grab it off you tomorrow and re-write this list ^^