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  1. #1
    Member TheBloodening's Avatar
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    2000 point 'Nids (WIP)

    Well, before 5th edition came out (When I played more, before the ravages of University befell me once more) I had a decent list thought up, tweaked and fixed up by a couple LO members. Unfortunately, 5th edition came out and around the same time I didn't have as much time to play, and now I fear my old list would be outdated.

    So I was hoping that other Tyranid players with experience in 5th edition (As I sadly have none) could help me out in planning out my army again. Fortunately, I have few enough models that I'm pretty much starting from scratch again.

    So far, my 'army' consists of a Battleforce (Sniperfex, Death Spitter/Strangler Warrior group[Not sure if I want to keep these guys in or not], Genestalers, 8 x Spinegaunts, 8 x Termagaunts, a few Ripper Swarms), a Dakkafex, Sniper-Tryant with Guard, 2 Zoanthropes, and a Ravener.

    As it stands, there's a couple things I know I'd like to add. First is some kind of Flyrant (Everyone loves the Dakka-Flyrant, but i just love the idea of modelling an Assault-Flyrant. I'm rather torn between what would be good and what would look cool).

    Next would likely be another Sniperfex, and probably another Dakkafex. This still leaves an Elites slot empty. I'm rather tempted to grab a Lictor or two here, mostly because I love the model, (And because the little bit I played with my Warriors before 5th came out resulted in lackluster performance on their party. They're quite firmly glued together, and mostly painted, so changing them up isn't really an option here. Also, as much as I would tend to love shoving another Carni of some sort into my Elites, opponents tend to yell 'Cheese!' when you shove in too many Monstrous Creatures).

    Troops is what I need help with the most I think, as I've been hearing horror stories now and again about how 5th edition isn't so good for armies whose troops were formly expendable in 4th. With only 16 Gaunts, 8 Genies, my troops selection is both very sparse, and easily open to comment. The main hurdle is the weaponry supplied in the Gaunt boxes, and the somewhat tight University budget I must live on (ie. No buying extra boxes just for the weapons, and leaving everything else unused). This is why I would really have to churn out 8 Spinegaunts and 8 Termagaunts per box.

    Any and all help from 'Nid players more experienced with 5th would be great, and as I start getting more suggestions, I'll start churning out an army list.

    Thanks in advance.

    [Thousand Sons]
    [Tyranids - Unnamed Hive Fleet]
    [Tau Empire]

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  3. #2
    I Sincerely Want a Parrot counterwavecounter's Avatar
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    I don't have any experience with Tyranids in 5th edition because Tyranids are an army I've been conceptualizing, but have not committed to collecting yet. I do however, have experience with 5th edition rules and have done extensive research on the Tyranids. So...

    It's true, Troops now win and lose games. With that in mind, Tyranids need to take tons and tons of Troops to be successful because the primary Troop choices, specifically the Gaunt variants, are all extremely fragile. Most of the lists I see use Spinegaunts because they're cheaper and will pretty much do the same thing as Termagants.

    So, in regards to the money issue I would make half of the Gaunt boxes Spines and the other half Hormies. Hormaugants are much more expensive than both, but give you an extremely fast unit that can dish out its fair share of pain in CC, or, if you don't want Hormies, get some green-stuff and make everything a Spinegaunt.

    You're still going to need to buy at least 4 boxes. I would say in your standard 1500 point list there should be a minimum 72 Gaunts of one variation or another.

    It's not much, but no one has posted, and I hate to see '0' replies when I open the Army List boards. I've posted a fair share of lists that have received nothing in return, it frustrates me.
    Last edited by counterwavecounter; December 15th, 2008 at 15:38.
    "The man in the bowler hat is Mr. Average in his anonymity. I, too, wear one; I have no great desire to stand out from the masses." - Rene Magritte

  4. #3
    Back with a vengeance Tarnag's Avatar
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    Lets see, everyone is right on the dot about having tons of troops, because ours, unfortunately, are fragile all around.

    Spinegaunts are great and cheap, so they are my Gaunt of choice for objective games.

    Genestealers are still lovely, but the new Rending rule (rends on the wound roll rather than the hit roll, only an extra d3 on tanks) hurt them and the Lictor, but now Preferred Enemy is just great, and Feeder Tendrils are a mich more attractive option.

    I love both kinds of Flyrants, but the Dakka build performs better and is a tad cheaper in all that I have seen.

    Overall, we are still competetive, just much more Troop reliant.

  5. #4
    Member TheBloodening's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by counterwavecounter View Post

    So, in regards to the money issue I would make half of the Gaunt boxes Spines and the other half Hormies. Hormaugants are much more expensive than both, but give you an extremely fast unit that can dish out its fair share of pain in CC, or, if you don't want Hormies, get some green-stuff and make everything a Spinegaunt.
    As good of an idea as green-stuffing Spinefists for my Gaunts would be, I just don't think I could stand having to do it for half of the savage number of Gaunts I would need to stay competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by counterwavecounter View Post
    You're still going to need to buy at least 4 boxes. I would say in your standard 1500 point list there should be a minimum 72 Gaunts of one variation or another.
    Case in point, I wouldn't want to greenstuff 72 Spinefist arms for 32 Gaunts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    Spinegaunts are great and cheap, so they are my Gaunt of choice for objective games.

    Genestealers are still lovely, but the new Rending rule (rends on the wound roll rather than the hit roll, only an extra d3 on tanks) hurt them and the Lictor, but now Preferred Enemy is just great, and Feeder Tendrils are a mich more attractive option.

    I love both kinds of Flyrants, but the Dakka build performs better and is a tad cheaper in all that I have seen.
    The group I play with tends towards Annihilation games; In fact, I think I've only ever played on objective based game before. I'm sure Spinegaunts are still a decent option, but I'd generally prefer something with a bit more power to them. Cannon fodder troops don't help much when you both need them, and don't have enough stuff to support them.

    I was tentatively considering Genestealers, mostly because of the nerf to rending (Which was one thing I knew for sure about 5th). I suppose though that taking feeder tendrils on the stealers (Or at least getting them into CC with a model that had them) would certainly help offset the number of dice you lose between rolling to hit and rolling to wound. I'm curious if it would be more worth the points though to take say, Feeder Tendrils on the Genies themselves, or just make them Scuttle and hope they get in range of some Lictors. The other alternative is a Infiltrating squad with a Broodlord, but that kind of limits my HQ options unless we end up playing some kind of Apocalypse game.

    As for the Flyrant issue, I know that Dakka Flyrants are the better performers, but it's more of a psychological thing when you're opponents see a wonderfully taloned beasty flying down the board at them with an invulnerable save, ready to rip them to shreds. Again, it's mostly a battle between what's ruleswise effective, and what's psychologically effective.

    So, I suppose, taking some of this advice, I'll draft up a quick first version of an army list.
    (Sorry about all the comments in the list. Stream of consciousness to get my reasonings across, and make it easier for you people to point out the flaws.)

    2000 Point List


    HQ

    Tyrant; Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, 1 Tyrant Guard
    ~202 points
    (Strangler is mostly because I'm running a bit of a Psychic Choir army. It's tempting to give this Tyrant Scream as well, but I know he's not going to be within 18'' of other models as much as the Zoans would be supporting Synapse, so I'll leave the psychic power slot blank, and maybe open to suggestions.

    There's a couple options here for my second HQ;
    Tyrant; Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Winged, 2 x Twin Linked Devourers, Warp Field
    ~196 points
    OR
    Tyrant; Adrenal Glands(I), Toxic Miasma, Winged, 2 x Scything Talons, Warp Field
    ~187 points
    (I opted for just Toxic Miasma, instead of Toxic Miasma+Adrenal Glands(WS) because the change between WS 5 and WS 6 really only makes a difference when fighting opponents of equal weapon skill, and you wouldn't be going for opponents of weapon skill 6 very much with this guy anyways).

    Elites

    Dakkafex; Enhanced Senses, 2x Twin Linked Devourers, Flesh Hooks
    ~114 points
    Dakkafex 2; Enhanced Senses, 2x Twin Linked Devourers, Flesh Hooks
    ~114 points
    Standard Dakkafexes right here, with a Flesh Hook twist to navigate some terrain, in case I can get an advantage doing it.
    The next elites slot is where I'm wondering what to do. I was considering maybe 2 Lictors (160 points) to support any CC troops I might include (Such as Genestealers or Hormies), and because that extra point on units of Genestealers adds up pretty quickly when I already have to put Extended Carapace on them just so they can survive (I play against a lot of AP 5 weapons, mostly MEQ's). Add in the fact that I might want to add scuttlers on the silly things just to ensure that they get close enough to do some damage, and you've already got an assault troop at 23 points a pop. No need to make them 24 if I don't have to. Suggestions for what to do with this Elites slot are open.

    Troops

    All I know that I'm going to do here is shove in a decent number of Spinegaunt squads, and probably roll with some kind of squad(s) of Genies, and maybe Hormies depending on how much I want to either convert some to Spinegaunts somehow, or spend a few extra points on Termies.

    Fast Attack

    Really not much here. I mostly have the Ravener because it's a cool model, and they don't really do much in small groups of by themselves, so unless I wanted to take a decent number of them, which I probably won't have the points for with all the troops, I'm pretty much out of options. Gargoyles are out of the question because they are both extremely expensive to buy, and I have not the materials around to convert them myself from even MORE boxes of Gaunts I would have to destroy. And Spore Mines are just silly, although Bio Acid are almost tempting to try and make up for the Tyranid deficiency of vehicle destruction.

    Heavy Support
    Only section I really know everything that I think I want in it.

    Sniperfex; Bonded Exoskeleton, Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks, Reinforced Chitin, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon
    ~184 points
    Sniperfex; Bonded Exoskeleton, Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks, Reinforced Chitin, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon
    ~184 points
    Standard Sniperfexes, again with the Flesh Hooks so that I can place them up on advantageous pieces of terrain. The +T and +W biomorphs are to ensure their survivability, because in playing smaller games with just the one I have, they really did the most, and survived the longest, because of it.
    3 Zoanthropes; Synapse Creature, Psychic Sceam
    ~165 points
    Standard Psychic Choir material right here, mostly to compliment the 3 Barbed Stranglers I have, since I have no idea what does and doesn't require leadership checks in 5th, and which of those might be advantageous for me to lower leadership on. I have Synapse on them instead of Warp Blast for a couple reasons. First off, I don't want the damn things blowing up their own heads trying to hit vehicles with BS 3 AND having to take a psychic test, and secondly, with the large number of Gaunt troops I'll have to take, 2 Tyrants holding up the synapse just ain't going to cut it. And with the pitiful 18'' range of Warp Blast, I'm never going to get the silly things close to vehicles alive, since they're always in the back, behind vehicles. I might as well just keep scream on them and be done with it, since it can only help me when the opponent has leadership checks to do.

    =1159 points already determined, and I haven't even taken any troops yet. It's certainly going to be interesting to see what people suggest I could/should fit into those remaining 841 points (681 if I decide to take a least 2 Lictors for my 3 Elites choice)

    Again, any and all input would be appreciated. I'd prefer to have this army more well planned out, lest I have a repeat of my Chaos Marines. (ie. I played Word Bearers before the codex change, and was quite mad when I realized the bulk of my army (Daemons) were now basically Marines that couldn't shoot first).
    [Thousand Sons]
    [Tyranids - Unnamed Hive Fleet]
    [Tau Empire]

  6. #5
    Back with a vengeance Tarnag's Avatar
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    Yeah, I play mostly Annihilation games too (in fact I can only recall one game with my brother that was objective based), so I keep two lists, my Nidzilla/Genestealer list and my Spinegaunt heavy Nidzilla list. If you are more casual, just make a list that can do the killing with none of the filling.

    Anyways, the list looks good, I still like a Dakka Flyrant (test one out, you'll see) for the HQ. I have never really liked a Sniper Tyrant (not enough strength on the guns), but you have part of a Psychic Choir going, so the BS would come in handy.

    Those Snipers are soaking up a ton of points, just loads, with those defensive upgrades. They will hardly ever use it, and with those points you could probably fit those Lictors in. Really, to put it in perspective, my Sniperfex has only died once, and thats when my brother got a lucky Terminator Lord + Retinue Deepstrike literally on its ass, defensive upgrades wouln't have made any difference. Otherwise he just sits back and lays down fire, they don't take many shots, and the base stats are plenty to keep it alive long enough. Those points are better spent elsewhere.

    Genestealers look like a nice addition, finish off those fleeing and pinned squads with a deadly charge, so I would suggest taking at least two squads, even barebones, just to bring the pain.

    If you can take the points, give Psychic Scream to your Tyrants, it will make your Tyrants that much stronger, and they are harder to kill off than your 'Thropes.

    Lots of Dakka here, I like it.

  7. #6
    Member TheBloodening's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    Anyways, the list looks good, I still like a Dakka Flyrant (test one out, you'll see) for the HQ. I have never really liked a Sniper Tyrant (not enough strength on the guns), but you have part of a Psychic Choir going, so the BS would come in handy.
    Mostly why I have him in the list, really. The extra BS for the pinning. I can't really think of what I'd include other than him, besides maybe a Broodlord to bring more Genestealer pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    Those Snipers are soaking up a ton of points, just loads, with those defensive upgrades. They will hardly ever use it, and with those points you could probably fit those Lictors in. Really, to put it in perspective, my Sniperfex has only died once, and thats when my brother got a lucky Terminator Lord + Retinue Deepstrike literally on its ass, defensive upgrades wouln't have made any difference. Otherwise he just sits back and lays down fire, they don't take many shots, and the base stats are plenty to keep it alive long enough. Those points are better spent elsewhere.
    I'm mostly paranoid, especially since I have a heavy-weapons-happy friend who plays Space Marines. But I suppose I could do without most, or all of the defensive upgrades, since me and most of my other friends have vowed never to play his Marines again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    Genestealers look like a nice addition, finish off those fleeing and pinned squads with a deadly charge, so I would suggest taking at least two squads, even barebones, just to bring the pain.
    I certainly like Genies, they just happen to be a HUGE target for other people, because of the fear they instilled from the old rending rules. As it is, Extended Carapace is almost a necessity. Depending on what kind of points i can scrape up, I'll see what I can do with these guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    If you can take the points, give Psychic Scream to your Tyrants, it will make your Tyrants that much stronger, and they are harder to kill off than your 'Thropes.
    I was considering putting it on the walking Tyrant, I just don't know how often he'll be within 18'' of other models, what with his longer range weaponry. And I'd rather have an invulnerable save on the Flyrant than Psychic Scream, since you can only take one power on a Tyrant at a time.

    2000 Point List (First Revision)

    HQ

    Tyrant; Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, Psychic Scream, 1 Tyrant Guard
    ~212 points

    There's a couple options here for my second HQ;
    Tyrant; Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Winged, 2 x Twin Linked Devourers, Warp Field
    ~196 points
    OR
    Tyrant; Adrenal Glands(I), Toxic Miasma, Winged, 2 x Scything Talons, Warp Field
    ~187 points

    Elites

    Dakkafex; Enhanced Senses, 2x Twin Linked Devourers, Flesh Hooks
    ~114 points
    Dakkafex 2; Enhanced Senses, 2x Twin Linked Devourers, Flesh Hooks
    ~114 points
    2 Lictors
    ~160 points

    Troops

    8 Genestealers;
    ~128 points vanilla, 160 points with Carapace, and an ungodly amount more with anything else
    8 Genestealers;
    ~128 points vanilla, 160 points with Carapace, and an ungodly amount more with anything else
    16 Spinegaunts
    ~80 points
    16 Spinegaunts
    ~80 points
    16 (Some kind of gaunt)
    ~80 points if I go with more Spinegaunts (somehow), 160-192 if I do some flavour of Hormies
    16 (Some kind of gaunt)
    ~80 points if I go with more Spinegaunts (somehow), 160-192 if I do some flavour of Hormies

    Fast Attack

    Nada, really.

    Heavy Support
    Only section I really know everything that I think I want in it.

    Sniperfex; Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon
    ~149 points
    Sniperfex; Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon
    ~149 points
    (So tempted to keep the defensive upgrades on these guys, but we'll see how they play without them.)
    3 Zoanthropes; Synapse Creature, Psychic Sceam
    ~165 points

    =1259 points (741 left)

    As it stands for the troops, I could take 16 vanilla genies, 32 Spinegaunts, and 32 vanilla Hormies. If I decided to take more Spinegaunts instead of Hormies, I could pull out some 16 Carapace Genies, 64 spinegaunts, and still have the points to pull out 20 more for a grand total of 84. (What a nightmare to paint >. <)

    So it seems that taking pure Spinegaunts with Genies is the best way to get pure numbers on the table. Hormies would likely never make it to CC, or at least if they did they likely wouldn't do too much being vanilla. There's not really much I could do otherwise to get Upgraded Genies and Upgraded Hormies into the list without cutting back even more on things I've already got.
    [Thousand Sons]
    [Tyranids - Unnamed Hive Fleet]
    [Tau Empire]

  8. #7
    Back with a vengeance Tarnag's Avatar
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    Looking better, if you are really nervous about defensive upgrades, I would suggest just putting extended Carapace on, it helps you dodge those missile launchers with AP3.

    A Broodlord sounds awesome to me if you are unsure about the walking Tyrant, he is basically an amazing Genestealer that pops up right on he enemy's lines. Lots of fun!

    Spinegaunts and Genestealers make a good combo of cheap troops and effective melée that will keep your opponent on their toes and do you well in most any battle. Hormagaunts can be modeled as Spinegaunts if you have some extra spinefists, so they aren't totally useless.

  9. #8
    Member TheBloodening's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    Looking better, if you are really nervous about defensive upgrades, I would suggest just putting extended Carapace on, it helps you dodge those missile launchers with AP3.
    Most anything that's going to be shooting at my 'Fexes are AP 2, so Extended carapace is more of a waste of points than anything. Just Bonded Exoskeleton would likely be a better investment, since it'll make it harder for things to wound. (And it's 5 points cheaper)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    A Broodlord sounds awesome to me if you are unsure about the walking Tyrant, he is basically an amazing Genestealer that pops up right on he enemy's lines. Lots of fun!
    I kind of like the walking Tyrant, but at the same time a Broodlord might also be a good decision. Mostly to have something up close to enemy lines that could support / be supported by the Lictors. I'll mess around with both a bit once I actually start playing more again and see what I prefer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    Spinegaunts and Genestealers make a good combo of cheap troops and effective melée that will keep your opponent on their toes and do you well in most any battle. Hormagaunts can be modeled as Spinegaunts if you have some extra spinefists, so they aren't totally useless.
    The Hormagaunt thing was mostly just pissing around with ideas, since you never get enough Spinefists to outfit all 16 Gaunts in a box, and I have neither the patience nor the skill the greenstuff that many Spinefists. If anything I'd just make the other half of the Gaunts I get Termagaunts and call it a day. They're only one point more, so it's not a "huge" difference in the long run for points, and I won't have to go out of my way to either get more Spinefists, or try and model my own.

    2000 Point List (Second Revision [More complete version])

    HQ

    Tyrant; Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, Psychic Scream, 1 Tyrant Guard
    ~212 points

    There's a couple options here for my second HQ;
    Tyrant; Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Winged, 2 x Twin Linked Devourers, Warp Field
    ~196 points
    OR
    Tyrant; Adrenal Glands(I), Toxic Miasma, Winged, 2 x Scything Talons, Warp Field
    ~187 points

    Elites

    Dakkafex; Enhanced Senses, 2x Twin Linked Devourers, Flesh Hooks
    ~114 points
    Dakkafex 2; Enhanced Senses, 2x Twin Linked Devourers, Flesh Hooks
    ~114 points
    2 Lictors
    ~160 points

    Troops

    8 Genestealers; Extended Carapace
    ~160 points
    8 Genestealers; Extended Carapace
    ~160 points
    16 Spinegaunts
    ~80 points
    16 Spinegaunts
    ~80 points
    16 Termagaunts
    ~96 points
    16 Termagaunts
    ~96 points

    Fast Attack

    Nada, really.

    Heavy Support

    Sniperfex; Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon
    ~149 points
    Sniperfex; Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon
    ~149 points
    (So tempted to keep the defensive upgrades on these guys, but we'll see how they play without them.)
    3 Zoanthropes; Synapse Creature, Psychic Sceam
    ~165 points

    =1931 (69 points left)

    Could use those 69 points to either add more Gaunts to the squads (not many though) or put some flavour of defensive upgrade on the heavy 'Fexes.

    Alternatively, I could put a Broodlord, with some more Genies instead of the walking Tryant.

    Broodlord; 8 Genestealers with Extended Carapace
    ~230 points

    Ends up being a few more points than the walking Tyrant if I take a full boxload with him, but ends up giving me more models and more potential, really. Could maybe take off a Genie or two and give him Feeder Tendrils, if I really wanted to. Help out in case the Lictors don't make it into CC with the same squad.

    I kind of like the Broodlord option, only problem being is it kind of obsoletes the whole "Psychic Choir" thing that was kind of going on in my army, leaving the Zoans costing more points than they need to, or less a relevant psychic power. Would probably switch out the Scream for Warp Blast or something if I went with a Broodlord.
    [Thousand Sons]
    [Tyranids - Unnamed Hive Fleet]
    [Tau Empire]

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    Back with a vengeance Tarnag's Avatar
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    If you are going for the Psychic Choir, go all out with two Hive Tyrants with Psychic Scream walking with the Zoanthropes (wings will disrupt the line moving in sync). Otherwise, give the Broodlord Feeder Tendrils at least, if not more (Toxin Sacs and Extended Carapace come to mind) as he can become absolutely beastly with the right upgrades.

    This is shaping up to be a good list, I like where you are going with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnag View Post
    If you are going for the Psychic Choir, go all out with two Hive Tyrants with Psychic Scream walking with the Zoanthropes (wings will disrupt the line moving in sync). Otherwise, give the Broodlord Feeder Tendrils at least, if not more (Toxin Sacs and Extended Carapace come to mind) as he can become absolutely beastly with the right upgrades.
    My only concern about putting Extended Carapace on the Lord is that it'll be a waste while he still has Genies with him (Majority saves and all that fun stuff. Not sure if it really matters unless they somehow can manage to pinpoint him in the unit though).

    Psychic Choir was kind of a cool idea, but for some reason I remember Leadership checks having less to do with CC resolution than it used to in 5th (I might be wrong) and as such it really only affects Pinning tests, which never really seem to work anyways. (At least with my luck). So if I'm probably switching to the non-Choir version anyways, if that's true.
    [Thousand Sons]
    [Tyranids - Unnamed Hive Fleet]
    [Tau Empire]

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