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  1. #1
    Senior Member lLonginus's Avatar
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    2000 point competitive: needs help

    Alright folks, I've got a 2000 point tournament coming up this weekend with a $25 entry fee, so prizes are expected and I aim to win. I expect to face everything from Nidzilla to deepstriking Dark Angels, so I need a competitively balanced force that can destroy the enemy and take objectives. My list so far looks like this:

    Shas'el +PR +MP +TA +HWMT +BSF
    3 Crisis +PR +MP +MT with Team Leader +TA +2SD +BK
    2 Crisis +MP +MP +TA
    6 Stealth +TL +BK
    12 Fire Warriors +Devilfish +DP
    12 Fire Warriors
    12 Fire Warriors
    10 Kroot
    8 Pathfinders +Devilfish +DP
    8 Pathfinders +Devilfish +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP

    It's balanced and fairly able to take objectives, however I feel that it could be much more elitist and I'll take any advice I can get.

    My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member lLonginus's Avatar
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    An alternative list that I just came up with is this:
    Shas’el +PR +FB +TA +HWMT
    1 Crisis +TL +PR +FB +TA +MT +BK +2SD +2 Crisis +PR +PR +TA
    1 Crisis +TL +PR +FB +TA +MT +BK +2SD +2 Crisis +PR +PR +TA
    1 Crisis +TL +PR +FB +TA +MT +BK +2SD +2 Crisis +PR +PR +TA
    6 Fire Warriors +Devilfish +DP
    6 Fire Warriors +Devilfish +DP
    6 Fire Warriors +Devilfish +DP
    11 Kroot
    11 Kroot
    11 Kroot
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +BC +MT +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +BC +MT +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +BC +MT +DP

    It's low on the basic trooper count, but can wreak havoc on most every MEQ list, as well as Nidzilla, and the submunitions will allow me to deal good damage against horde armies (aka Orks). Small troop units, but each squad is scoring, and infantry don't need to leave their transport to score, allowing me to preserve my Fire Warrior squads until the endgame, then move them up to capture objectives. Kroot in forests will draw horrendous fire and survive it, and can put out good firepower in their own right, as well as capture objectives (I may keep them on my rear objectives). I'm waffling on whether to use Fusion Blasters or Missile Pods on my Crisis suits, as Missile Pods will allow me to deal with transports early, and Fusion Blasters will destroy MEQs and heavy vehicles, as well as MCs.
    My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.

  4. #3
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lLonginus View Post
    Alright folks, I've got a 2000 point tournament coming up this weekend with a $25 entry fee, so prizes are expected and I aim to win. I expect to face everything from Nidzilla to deepstriking Dark Angels, so I need a competitively balanced force that can destroy the enemy and take objectives. My list so far looks like this:

    Shas'el +PR +MP +TA +HWMT +BSF
    3 Crisis +PR +MP +MT with Team Leader +TA +2SD +BK
    2 Crisis +MP +MP +TA
    6 Stealth +TL +BK
    12 Fire Warriors +Devilfish +DP
    12 Fire Warriors
    12 Fire Warriors
    10 Kroot
    8 Pathfinders +Devilfish +DP
    8 Pathfinders +Devilfish +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP

    It's balanced and fairly able to take objectives, however I feel that it could be much more elitist and I'll take any advice I can get.
    I think this is the better list, however a few suggestions if I may.

    To many Pathfinders. In a tournie these will just draw so much fire they will not last that long. Believe me one unit is seen as evil by most tournie players so two will just end up being chased down or shot to pieces purely because of the intimidation factor that putting down that many ML's creates.
    The Fire knife unit! two suits with BS3 is not what you should be taking to a tournie, they just are not efficient enough. Also BIG UNIT 3 XV8's and two Shield Drones is going to be very hard to hide. What you need is a hard hitting Fire knife unit that can do enough damage to prevent or minimise return fire.
    I would lose the Shield Drones and take a Marker Drone for the unit, this will give the unit a 50% chance of hitting at BS4 every turn. This is going to be much more useful than a couple of Shield Drones. I know it is only one model short of the unit you are taking but it is still easier to hide and is much more efficient.
    I would go for:
    Team leader with MP, PL, TA, HW Multi, BK, HW DC and Marker Drone
    2 x XV8 with MP, PL, Multi.

    I would also consider putting a HW DC on the team leader of the Stealth's and giving him a Marker Drone as well. The fact is that a 50% chance of 18 BS4 shots per turn is worth 30pts.

    Now I am sure you are aware of the argument regarding the target lock and controlled Marker Drones (I/E which target does the Drone fire at, the controllers target or the units). I am not sure how the judges would rule on this so I leave it to you to decide if a target lock would be a worthwhile addition to the XV8 and Stealth teams.

    I would take:

    Shas'el +PR +MP +TA +HWMT 97pts

    3 Crisis Team leader with MP, PL, TA, HW Multi, BK, HW DC and Marker Drone
    2 x XV8 with MP, PL, Multi. 236pts

    2 Crisis +MP +MP +TA 106pts

    6 Stealth +TL +BK + HW DC and Marker Drone 220pts

    12 Fire Warriors +Devilfish +DP 205pts
    12 Fire Warriors + Devilfish +Dp 205pts
    10 Fire Warriors 100pts
    10 Kroot 70pts
    10 Kroot 70pts

    8 Pathfinders +Devilfish +DP 181pts

    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP 165pts
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP 165pts
    1 Hammerhead +Railgun +Burst Cannons +MT +DP 165pts

    1986pts (leaving 14 pts for the Target locks if you decide to take them or take another Fire Warrior.

    If you notice with the changes you still have two mobile FW units but you now have two Kroot units (with all the infiltrate goodness they provide). You have Fire knife unit and Stealth units that are going to hit harder for a usual (if probabilities are accurate) minimum of 50% of the game and with luck maybe 4 or 5 turns (of course there is always the risk that you could roll badly but you still have the same hit rate you had originally).
    You still have a unit of Pathfinders (you may want to consider finding the points for a team leader with target lock for a bit of split fire, maybe lose a Fire Warrior if you use the 10pts for TL's on the XV8/Stealth teams).
    The Hammerheads are always good.
    Anyway I hope this at least gives you something to consider. I think the points are correct (or damned close), I have done the list from memory so forgive me if it is a bit out.

    Edit: I would avoid the Fusions if I were you, all it is going to do is place your valuable XV8's in harms way. Remember most games rely on troops to win, objective taking or kill points. This means you need to keep your forces safe and hurt the opponent. Taking 5 troop choices and keeping the XV8's safe will pay dividends. The Fire-knife unit is hard hitting and you have the Hammerheads for MC killing if needed. Keep the two mobile FW units as safe as possible and only commit them if you are sure you can really damage a target, otherwise use them for objective taking.
    Last edited by Rikimaru; January 26th, 2009 at 21:29.
    1984

  5. #4
    Senior Member lLonginus's Avatar
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    I very much appreciate the advice rikimaru, your sage words are valued as always.

    I was very hesitant to take a marker drone on the Fireknife squad. A torrent of fire could quickly do away with it, whereas the shield drones would lengthen the team's time on the board. My pathfinder typically don't endure punishment too severe to manage, my opponents typically focus on the more immediate threats. With two Pathfinder teams and Fire Warriors getting into and out of their Devilfish, there will probably be extra markerlight tokens lingering about. Heavy fire going into the Pathfinders, in cover, will mostly be a waste on my opponents' parts, and Kroot squads I would prefer to keep on home objectives in forests or protecting the Pathfinders in KP missions.

    I would be much quicker to include a Marker Drone on my Stealth team than my Crisis team due to the stealth rules and double the model count (rendering torrents of fire relatively ineffective). However, once again, with two pathfinder squads I'll have plenty of extra markerlights.

    The fusions are definitely a larger risk, but I figured they may bring a large benefit if I positioned carefully. Anti-infantry weaponry abounds in this list, but the ability to deal with MCs and Deepstriking Terminators, or an excessive number of AV14 tanks... I don't get to play as often as I'd like, and these are things that concern me. I wouldn't worry too much about it in objective games except a MC contesting an objective is hard to move, even with 3 Hammerheads.
    My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.

  6. #5
    Senior Member oceanwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lLonginus View Post
    I wouldn't worry too much about it in objective games except a MC contesting an objective is hard to move, even with 3 Hammerheads.
    I agree to your final statement. MC seem impossible to kill sometimes (my last game!) and I always end up feeling like I wish I had an extra fusion blaster somewhere when fighting those Nidzilla lists.
    Two droids walk into a bar. The bartender says "Hey, we don't serve your kind here.", so they leave.

  7. #6
    Member Da Boyzz's Avatar
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    First list is the way to go, I would say make all suits other then commander TL MP's. This will be a balanced list but remain competitive I think & seems to be the best bet for tau at the moment.

    Second list will fail in many objective missions... 6 man FW's won't hold objectives for long & as often happens, you need to drop them out turn 5, but if it goes to turn 7 you are boned.
    [2000] Orks [2000] Tau,
    [1500]SM [2250] WHFB Chaos

  8. #7
    Senior Member lLonginus's Avatar
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    One thing about 5th edition is that Troops inside of a transport can still capture objectives. I was playing a game and someone did this on the last turn, which I highly doubted until they showed me the specific entry (somewhere on the pages that deal with transports). Minimum Fire Warrior squads in transports can still score, and will be invulnerable to anti-infantry weapons until their transport pops. This leaves anti-infantry units to fire at my elusive crisis teams or my Kroot with 3+ cover saves, making my opponent waste a great deal of effort. Kroot holding rear objectives in forests will be hard to move, and Fire Warriors in transports can easily move to forward objectives late in the game to score.
    My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.

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