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  1. #1
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    1500pt Tourney List ... Feedback needed bad

    Here we go-

    Farseer, Fortune, Guide, Spirit Stones

    5 Warlocks 3 with destructor, 1 enchance, 1 embolden

    (They are in a) Falcon Scatter Laser, Holo, Spirit Stones, Shiruken Cannon


    Avatar


    10 Dire Avengers Exarch Dual Cats Bladestorm
    Wave Serpent, Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance

    5X Rangers (yes rangers... didn't have points for upgrade)

    10X Guardians Scatter Laser

    5 Dark Reapers - Tempest Launcher Exarch Crack Shot

    WraithLord- Bright Lance, EML, Twin Flamers





    Tourney - one annahilate, one 5 objective mission, and one capture

    I'm a bit worried for the 5 objective one, but I'll outflank my rangers there, and hopefully keep my DA's alive to claim another


    Basic Strat - Stay still and shoot for a while... Avatar in center to avoid LD checks, everything shoots. Guide and fortune the reapers and have them bake infantry. Have my pulse laser and WL deal with tanks (WS can help here too). Have the warlocks to deal with non 2+ armor stuff in CC and flame masses. Avatar will deal with termies and such (hopefully with fortune he'll stay around).

    Anyways does this have any chance of working?
    Ideas comments? Any input would be awesome!


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  3. #2
    It came from the warp... Fleeting Ęther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbart View Post
    Here we go-
    I'm going to pick this army apart unit by unit so you can see the flaws in it.

    Farseer, Fortune, Guide, Spirit Stones
    Looks pretty good for a Council Seer, but he needs Doom instead of Guide.

    5 Warlocks 3 with destructor, 1 enchance, 1 embolden
    Looks good for a Council.

    (They are in a) Falcon Scatter Laser, Holo, Spirit Stones, Shiruken Cannon
    Why are you paying for the Shuriken Cannon upgrade? If the Falcon moves more than six inches, then you're wasting points on the upgrade (which you should be moving more than six for a few turns so the Seer Council can get where it needs to be. If you don't move it more than six, then your massively expensive Seer Council is going to waste just sitting in the Falcon. Personally, I'd drop the Falcon for a Wave Serpent for the Guardians (deploy the Guardians outside the Serpent and embark the Seer Council into it on the first turn. Or you can go with a bike council, which is just as fast, has a 3+ armor save in addition to the 4+ invuln save, and you can assault without sitting there for a turn once you're in range.

    Avatar
    Seems kind of lonely with nobody to back him up. I'd include a melee unit if you run the Avatar, Scorpions are probably best.

    10 Dire Avengers Exarch Dual Cats Bladestorm
    Wave Serpent, Spirit Stones, TL Bright Lance
    DA's look perfect, and the Serpent looks good, unless the list changes so dramatically that you don't need the lances anymore.

    5X Rangers (yes rangers... didn't have points for upgrade)

    10X Guardians Scatter Laser
    The sad thing is, that these guys aren't going to do much but get shot at. If you advance, their 5+ save will get them killed quickly, if you stick them back, well, they'll be fighting the Rangers for cover, and you really don't need a whole lot of firebase units in 5th.

    5 Dark Reapers - Tempest Launcher Exarch Crack Shot
    Don't get me wrong, reapers are awesome, but they're not worth their points in an all-comers list, such as those needed in a tournament. They're good at wiping MEQ off the board when they stray into the open, but when anything is in cover, they become just slightly better than dire avengers at killing them, and since you're paying nearly triple the cost of an avenger, you're better off dropping these guys.

    WraithLord- Bright Lance, EML, Twin Flamers
    Just how I run them, they work best in pairs though, so there's more targets for your opponents AT and so if one misses or fails to pen, you've got another to pick up the slack.

    Tourney - one annahilate, one 5 objective mission, and one capture

    I'm a bit worried for the 5 objective one, but I'll outflank my rangers there, and hopefully keep my DA's alive to claim another

    Basic Strat - Stay still and shoot for a while... Avatar in center to avoid LD checks, everything shoots. Guide and fortune the reapers and have them bake infantry. Have my pulse laser and WL deal with tanks (WS can help here too). Have the warlocks to deal with non 2+ armor stuff in CC and flame masses. Avatar will deal with termies and such (hopefully with fortune he'll stay around).

    Anyways does this have any chance of working?
    Ideas comments? Any input would be awesome!
    Sample list 1: Monstrous Creature Tag-Team

    ==HQ==
    Avatar - 155
    ==Troops==
    10 Dire Avengers - 152
    ---Exarch
    ---Dual Avenger Catapults
    ---Bladestorm
    Wave Serpent - 145[290]
    ---Bright Lance
    ---Spirit Stones
    5x Rangers - 120
    ---Pathfinders
    ==Elites==
    8 Striking Scorpions - 180
    ---Exarch
    ---Scorpion's Claw
    ---Shadowstrike
    ---Stalker
    ==Heavy Support==
    Wraithlord - 155
    ---EML
    ---Bright Lance
    ---Flamers
    Wraithlord - 155
    ---EML
    ---Bright Lance
    ---Flamers

    TOTAL - 1359

    Sample List 2: Council
    ==HQ==
    Farseer - 163
    ---Jetbike
    ---Doom
    ---Fortune
    ---Spirit Stones
    ---Singing Spear
    5 Warlocks - 275
    ---5x Jetbikes
    ---3x Destructor
    ---Enhance
    ---Embolden
    ==Troops==
    2x 10 Dire Avengers - 152[304]
    ---Exarch
    ---Dual Avenger Catapults
    ---Bladestorm
    Wave Serpent - 145
    ---Bright Lance
    ---Spirit Stones
    Wave Serpent - 130
    ---EML
    ---Spirit Stones
    5x Rangers - 120
    ---Pathfinders
    10 Guardians - 125
    ---Scatter Laser
    ---Warlock
    ---Embolden
    ==Heavy Support==
    2x Fire Prism - 115[230]


    TOTAL - 1492

    The fundamental flaw in your build, is spending WAAAY too many points on HQ. You want the monstrous creature tag team (Avatar with Wraithlords) AND the Seer Council. Well in 1500 points you're going to have to choose one, as they cost too much to have both since they fulfill more or less the same role, that is soaking up fire while puttting the smack down in CC. The first list utlizes dual Wraithlords with the Avatar and Pathfinders as the units in your objective. The Avengers in Serpent zoom up a flank where the Scorpions have infiltrated to, and begin to mulch opposition up there. The second list is more of a hybrid list with a lot of highly mobile elements and a hard firebase. The Guardians sit on your objective, the Fire Prisms lend support wherever it's needed, the Avengers in Serpents rush up a flank and the Council goes for the most troublesome target it can take down.

    Now I'm no expert on either of these types of lists, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but do keep in mind that putting so many points into HQ will come back to haunt you. It should be the rest of the list that does the work for the Eldar, the HQ is like the keystone in an arch, it holds the whole thing together.
    Scratchbuilding Fire Prism Crystals
    2K Mech Eldar in 2010: 25Win/4Lose/8Draw

  4. #3
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    Ok Drastic Redesign...

    You're right too much was spent on the HQ, I think this setup will prove much more flexible:

    Farseer: Guide, Fortune, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding

    Dark Reapers: 5 with exarch with tempest launcher and crack shot

    Avatar

    Wraithlord BL EML twin flamers



    ------------------------- This is my firebase .... the setup will be farseer in DR squad to guide and fortune them ... avatar to side guarding them from CC with wraithlord behind him (4+ cover save from avatar! and I can see over him so no penalty for me!)

    I thought about what you said about the DR's. The crack shot skill allows me to ignore cover and reroll wounds: therefore I think this unit (especially when guided) will still be crazy effective with 2 templates that wound of 4+ rerollable vs marines and insta kill with no save regardless of cover... plus whatever extra the vanilla DR's can put in (they are pretty much an exarch caddy). Hopefully this will shred other infantry like orcs and such. The wraithlord snipes vechicles, and 2 monsters in one spot will make this unfriendly to cc

    -----------------------

    Falcon Holo Scatter Laser Spirit Stones
    5 Dire Avengers one upgraded to exarch (no dual cats here, not nuff points)

    Wave Serpent TL Bright Lances Spirit Stones
    10 Guardians, Warlock with destructor (thinking maybe embolden instead and then give the above exarch dual cats) and Bright Lance weapon platform

    Wave Serpent TL EML SS
    10 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Dual Cats, Bladestorm


    ------------------------ Ok, all scoring units, which is nice... the guardians can come out and still fire the BL which is cool. As a last resort I can come out and shiruk cat and destructor a unit. I can grab objectives last turn which is also nice. Key is going to be keeping the skimmers alive... I'll have to use cover like crazy, but I can pop out every turn and lay down some fire, even from far away with the guardians.



    I feel like the eldar melee is very weak right now, banshees get owned after initial combat, and scorpions feel too slow to be competative. So I really don't want to go there as I only have one unit of each. (Now if i could go 2 units of banshees in 2 WS with Eldrad I would do that, but I don't own the models =P )

    Fire prisms would be awesome too, but I only have one, and I feel the do best in pairs. Anyways this is what I came up with so far ... still very open to suggestions/ changes.

    Think this will do any better...?
    Last edited by bbart; February 19th, 2009 at 05:21.

  5. #4
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    Couple comments. So far I'm liking a EML on my falcon. S4 lets you fire the thing while on the move, and if you hold still (probably behind some cover) you have weapons with matching range and strength, which I find is nice for maximizing firepower effectiveness.

    I like your edited list more.

    I'm not so sure about putting the farseer with the firebase on foot. That's a pricey model, DR are pretty good at hitting stuff anyway, and I think the biggest risk your list faces is being overrun, possibly by transports. If melee units hit that unit you stand to lose both it and your farseer right away.

    Since the FAQ lets the farseer cast fortune, guide, and doom from inside transports, I'd suggest trying the farseer out with one of the other units.

    To have your cake and eat it too, to a degree, you could put the farseer in the falcon with the DA and have that thing sit back behind cover with your firebase firing away. Casting psychic powers with even greater flexibility since the falcon can move better.

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