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  1. #1
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    A few warriors short...

    I'm trying to put together my DE list for take-all-comers non-tournament play...though I'd like to be competitive enough to attend some small local tourneys and take some prisoners!

    I've tried to stick with fluffy things that I like (Haemonculi, Jetbikes) and think this list is fairly decent, by only concerns are the lack of Trophy Racks and the small size of the Raider squads. The minimal Jet Bike "retinue" has me a bit concerned too, but I think if handled with care they'll prove their worth.

    The Haemonculi are intended to each join one of the Raider squads, and add their template to the close-range firepower of the squad...but is 6 + Haemonculus enough? Could they be reduced to minimum? Perhaps held in reserve (or at least somewhere safe-ish) until a late-game objective-grab?

    HQ: Archon (1#, 187 Pts)
    1 Archon @ 187 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x1); Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades; Animus Vitae; Reaver Jetbike

    HQ: Haemonculi (1#, 47 Pts)
    1 Haemonculi @ 47 Pts
    Scissorhand; Destructor; Plasma Grenades

    HQ: Haemonculi (1#, 47 Pts)
    1 Haemonculi @ 47 Pts
    Scissorhand; Destructor; Plasma Grenades

    HQ: Haemonculi (1#, 47 Pts)
    1 Haemonculi @ 47 Pts
    Scissorhand; Destructor; Plasma Grenades

    Elite: Wyches (10#, 214 Pts)
    8 Wyches @ 214 Pts
    Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades
    1 Succubus @ [42] Pts
    Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad)
    1 Raider @ [60] Pts
    Dark Lance; Horrorfex

    Troops: Warrior Squad (10#, 100 Pts)
    10 Warrior Squad @ 100 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x 8 ); Dark Lance (x2)

    Troops: Warrior Squad (10#, 100 Pts)
    10 Warrior Squad @ 100 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x 8 ); Dark Lance (x2)

    Troops: Raider Squad (7#, 118 Pts)
    6 Raider Squad @ 118 Pts
    Blaster; Splinter Rifle ( x4 ); Splinter Cannon; Raider
    1 Raider @ [55] Pts
    Dark Lance

    Troops: Raider Squad (7#, 118 Pts)
    6 Raider Squad @ 118 Pts
    Blaster; Splinter Rifle ( x4 ); Splinter Cannon; Raider
    1 Raider @ [55] Pts
    Dark Lance

    Troops: Raider Squad (7#, 118 Pts)
    6 Raider Squad @ 118 Pts
    Blaster; Splinter Rifle ( x4 ); Splinter Cannon; Raider
    1 Raider @ [55] Pts
    Dark Lance

    Fast Attack: Reaver Jetbike Squad (4#, 163 Pts)
    3 Reaver Jetbike Squad @ 163 Pts
    Splinter Pistol; Blaster (x2); Splinter Rifle (x1); Combat Drugs; Reaver Jetbike
    1 Succubus @ [68] Pts
    Punisher; Splinter Rifle (x1); Tormentor Helm; Plasma Grenades; Reaver Jetbike

    Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 120 Pts)
    1 Ravager @ 120 Pts
    Disentegrator (x3)

    Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 120 Pts)
    1 Ravager @ 120 Pts
    Disentegrator (x3)

    Total Roster Cost: 1499

    Thanks for any feedback!

    Last edited by Malagant; March 31st, 2009 at 06:09.

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  3. #2
    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    I can appreciate that you want a fun list rather than a power-gaming list, but the haemonculi squads are going to be easy targets for any army with decent shooting. You certainly don't want them in close combat either, so they're a bit of a one-hit-wonder. You'll end up dropping them, getting a round of shooting, and then they'll be scattered to the wind most likely.

    You're better off putting a Hell Mask or Vexatrope on your Haemonculi and putting them in squads that can handle themselves in close combat. That way you get the added firepower, and the Haemy is not a sitting duck.

    The only other thing I can see is that having an IC joining Raider squads will make it harder if you ever want to put everything in reserve. You would have to roll for the ICs separately, and they would have to walk onto the board slowing down your Raiders' advance unless you leave them behind. Coming in from reserve with a Raider list is extremely useful, so it's something to consider.

    --•-My 40K projects-•--

  4. #3
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    Sorry if I didn't explain...the Haemonculi aren't going it alone, each of them is joining a raider squad.

  5. #4
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    I will make a few comments but primarily I will try to keep your list in tact and then tell you how I would change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malagant View Post
    The Haemonculi are intended to each join one of the Raider squads, and add their template to the close-range firepower of the squad...but is 6 + Haemonculus enough?
    I think the raider squads will do ok, that would be the smallest I would entertain if these units are going to be your scoring units. In a Kabal list I would run 8 with a sybarite and aggy but purely my personal preference, these guys are what you need to win 2/3 of the games. I do like the Haemonculi in each squad and would see about those trophy racks for the Haemys.

    Could they be reduced to minimum?
    I really do not like the idea – again, they need to be more durable not less durable.

    Perhaps held in reserve (or at least somewhere safe-ish) until a late-game objective-grab?
    I may be nuts but this tactic is the only valid one and my lists are designed for that in mind – hence, I no longer use foot squads and prefer being “mechanized”. Yes, the raider squads are perfect for putting into reserve – the 3 raider squads should be looked at as being 3 scoring units (the raider squad itself) and 3 contesting units (the raiders that transport them). I play as if the game ends on turn 5 so when the raiders come out from turn 2 to turn 4 (sometimes turn 5) you assess the game board at that time and get the raider squads into position.

    HQ: Archon (1#, 187 Pts)
    1 Archon @ 187 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x1); Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades; Animus Vitae; Reaver Jetbike
    Combat drugs + Shadowfield + Bike + Animus = 100 points, everything else would have to be dropped. I do not like that setup so I would say keep the bike and drop the animus OR keep the animus and drop the bike. I prefer dropping the bike and keeping the animus and have the Archon ride with the wyches.

    HQ: Haemonculi (1#, 47 Pts)
    1 Haemonculi @ 47 Pts
    Scissorhand; Destructor; Plasma Grenades
    Unfortunately the Haemy can not use the plasma with scissorhand (scissorhand references poison blades and poison blades cannot be used with plasma grenades. Otherwise the ride with the raider squads.

    Elite: Wyches (10#, 214 Pts)
    8 Wyches @ 214 Pts
    Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades
    1 Succubus @ [42] Pts
    Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad)
    1 Raider @ [60] Pts
    Dark Lance; Horrorfex
    All good. I run mine at 6 wyches but only if there is another wych squad in the list or if the Archon is going to ride with the wyches. Wyches + HQ is a natural match and this unit can tackle basic marine squads perfectly.

    Troops: Warrior Squad (10#, 100 Pts)
    10 Warrior Squad @ 100 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x 8 ); Dark Lance (x2)
    I dislike this squad but it does add 2 lances and a scoring unit so fine as is.

    Troops: Raider Squad (7#, 118 Pts)
    6 Raider Squad @ 118 Pts
    Blaster; Splinter Rifle ( x4 ); Splinter Cannon; Raider
    1 Raider @ [55] Pts
    Dark Lance
    Fine as is but I like to add horrorfexs to the raider squads.

    Fast Attack: Reaver Jetbike Squad (4#, 163 Pts)
    3 Reaver Jetbike Squad @ 163 Pts
    Splinter Pistol; Blaster (x2); Splinter Rifle (x1); Combat Drugs; Reaver Jetbike
    1 Succubus @ [68] Pts
    Punisher; Splinter Rifle (x1); Tormentor Helm; Plasma Grenades; Reaver Jetbike
    I think the squad is outfitted correctly so it is fine as is. I do think it is weak for CC however but it just might work if you are really careful. I think the squad is too small, too expensive and an easy killpoint. This is just my opinion though so nevermind me. If I really wanted to keep the bikes I would run just a plain tank hunting squad of 3 bikes with 2 blasters and forgo the idea of getting into CC with them. They make a wonderful distraction unit either way and they will get tons of attention even though they are not that threatening.

    Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 120 Pts)
    1 Ravager @ 120 Pts
    Disentegrator (x3)
    Fine as is and 2 ravagers in 1500 is perfect.
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

  6. #5
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    Incredibly good feedback, Kwik! I thank you! I'm humbled by my math and rule errors

    I'm addicted to the Archon on the bike, and think the Animus Vitae will have to go. Dropping that, and the PG from the Haemonculi (with their Raider squads so small, I'm hoping to not need to assault with them anyway!), this frees up enough points to either add a warrior to each Raider squad, or Trophy Racks to the Haemonculi. I'm preferring the former, since I felt the squads were on the small side, and again, getting the Hemmi in CC is a last resort anyway!

    Thanks again, and I welcome any more feedback!

    New & Improved (?):

    HQ: Archon (1#, 172 Pts)
    1 Archon @ 172 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x1); Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades; Reaver Jetbike

    (CDD + SF + Helm + PG + Jetbike < 100 pts of wargear. Punisher is a Weapon, so shouldn't count towards the limit.)

    HQ: Haemonculi (1#, 45 Pts)
    1 Haemonculi @ 45 Pts
    Scissorhand; Destructor

    HQ: Haemonculi (1#, 45 Pts)
    1 Haemonculi @ 45 Pts
    Scissorhand; Destructor

    HQ: Haemonculi (1#, 45 Pts)
    1 Haemonculi @ 45 Pts
    Scissorhand; Destructor

    Elite: Wyches (10#, 214 Pts)
    8 Wyches @ 214 Pts
    Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades
    1 Succubus @ [42] Pts
    Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad)
    1 Raider @ [60] Pts
    Dark Lance; Horrorfex

    Troops: Warrior Squad (10#, 100 Pts)
    10 Warrior Squad @ 100 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x8 ); Dark Lance (x2)

    Troops: Warrior Squad (10#, 100 Pts)
    10 Warrior Squad @ 100 Pts
    Splinter Rifle (x8 ); Dark Lance (x2)

    Troops: Raider Squad (8#, 126 Pts)
    7 Raider Squad @ 126 Pts
    Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x5); Splinter Cannon; Raider
    1 Raider @ [55] Pts
    Dark Lance

    Troops: Raider Squad (8#, 126 Pts)
    7 Raider Squad @ 126 Pts
    Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x5); Splinter Cannon; Raider
    1 Raider @ [55] Pts
    Dark Lance

    Troops: Raider Squad (8#, 126 Pts)
    7 Raider Squad @ 126 Pts
    Blaster; Splinter Rifle (x5); Splinter Cannon; Raider
    1 Raider @ [55] Pts
    Dark Lance

    Fast Attack: Reaver Jetbike Squad (4#, 163 Pts)
    3 Reaver Jetbike Squad @ 163 Pts
    Splinter Pistol; Blaster (x2); Splinter Rifle (x1); Combat Drugs; Reaver Jetbike
    1 Succubus @ [68] Pts
    Punisher; Splinter Rifle (x1); Tormentor Helm; Plasma Grenades; Reaver Jetbike

    Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 120 Pts)
    1 Ravager @ 120 Pts
    Disentegrator (x3)

    Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 120 Pts)
    1 Ravager @ 120 Pts
    Disentegrator (x3)

  7. #6
    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malagant View Post
    Sorry if I didn't explain...the Haemonculi aren't going it alone, each of them is joining a raider squad.
    I commented with that in mind. My point revolves around the fact that you have to join them together on the board and cannot come in together from reserve. And even with the joined squads with guns, these combined units will be easy pickins once they get close enough to do damage. You need to join you haemies with squads that you can afford to assault with, and also maybe put Hell Masks to discourage them from being targeted separately since they are ICs.

    Sybarites are the chief remedy to this problem.

    --•-My 40K projects-•--

  8. #7
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    I'm sorry, I don't understand how adding an expensive sybarite/agonizer is going to improve the survivability...he does 1w on avg vs. MEQ in assault, which is hardly stellar and doesn't seem to justify the cost. Moreover, I don't intend to have these guys in melee, at least not alone, as wyches or archon's bikers will be set up to counter & win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krovin-Rezh View Post
    I commented with that in mind. My point revolves around the fact that you have to join them together on the board and cannot come in together from reserve. And even with the joined squads with guns, these combined units will be easy pickins once they get close enough to do damage. You need to join you haemies with squads that you can afford to assault with, and also maybe put Hell Masks to discourage them from being targeted separately since they are ICs.

    Sybarites are the chief remedy to this problem.

  9. #8
    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    Sybarites with combat drugs average 3 wounds, which is usually good enough to stand toe-to-toe with most troops in my experience. Add that to the blaster, shredder, or splinter cannon, and you're not going to be taking very many return attacks. The Haemonculus is a bit of an unknown though, as he could just as easily get one kill as wipe out almost the entire squad, possibly leaving his squad out of combat during the following enemy shooting phase.

    But you're right about Sybarites without drugs. They average 1 wound, which is not worth paying points for IMO.

    At the risk of my possibly learning something new, are you saying you use the Haemy + Raider Squads as bait? What's to stop the opponent from just shooting them up?

    --•-My 40K projects-•--

  10. #9
    Resident Mongoose Mongooseo's Avatar
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    Sybarites with combat drugs are also prohibitively expensive for one wound characters. If you really need to tip the scale in assaults, then adding an IC is usually the way to go. I love my haemonculus, personally. I'm probably biased after watching just my haemonculus shred a wraithlord in CC in one round. He went on to do all sorts of other damage, and never had a wound he inflicted saved the entre game.

    I think he's planning on using the squads as bait to lock down enemy units in CC and set them up for a counter assault by specialists. What's to stop enemies from shooting them? Superior movement speed, and a nasty variable AP flamer template.

  11. #10
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    I'm currently using haemonculus' in my army, riding along with my 7 man raider squads and I must say that I find them effective aslong as used with caution. I do however gear the raider squads slightly differently, I run a sybarite with terrorfex and have a horrorfex on my raider, as well as the obligitory blaster and splinter cannon, jump out relitivly close to an exposed unit and let rip.

    I tend to use the terrorfex first to minimise the chances of it scattering off the squad and maximise the -ld for the ensuing pinning check, then depending on squad size and type (i need some left over to cover them from return shooting or to minimise the chances of getting assualted) I rapid fire (or not) the squad at them. I should note the rapid fire decision is decided and declared before the terrorfex is shot as shooting happens simultaneously!

    If the squad is now so small that it is no threat to me or is pinned, my raider will use the DL to maximum effect on whatever target I would gain the most from. If they are not pinned or are still a worrying size (eg for marines 3 or more of them as i dont want them tieing me up next turn if i can help it) then I use the horrorfex from the raider on them.

    Failing this I usually have CC back up close by (atm im using warp beasts with reasonable effect here as they can usually keep up with the raiders relitivly well) or just accept the concequences of the rash manover.

    Against threatening fearless troops you have to be a little more careful I how you got about this.

    Just some thoughts for you there.

    If you were to follow a similar route id drop a wych or two to help supply the points, however this depends how you intend to use them (defensivly like me) or agressivly, in which case they probably wouldn't get away with only being 6 strong.


    ST
    Last edited by stwess; April 2nd, 2009 at 20:44. Reason: spelling

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