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So I'm getting stomped by my friend's Space Marine list. We play eachother often and he has access to a lot of miniatures, meaning he's been able to slightly tailor his list against mine. So in true metahammer style I'm planning to do the same. I would still like to keep it a mostly all-comers list though.
I'll usually run something like this:
Lord w/ Res. Orb, Warscythe, Phase Shifter
He'll usually run something like this in return:
Captain w/ Lightning Claws, Jump Pack
5-8 Sternguard w/ Wound-on-2+-Boltguns in Drop Pod
5 Terminators w/ Assault Cannon
10 Marine Tactical Squad w/ Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun in Drop Pod
10 Marine Tactical Squad w/ Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun in Drop Pod
5-8 Vanguard w/ Jump packs
5-8 Devastators w/ Missile Launchers
The Sternguard vets will arrive on Turn 2 almost every time due to the Drop Pod special rules. They will deep strike right in front of the C'Tan and take him out in one turn of rapid fire with those pesky boltguns that wound on 2+. The Tactical Squads will deep strike wherever needed, usually near the massed Warriors and Lord.
By Turn 3 the Devestators will have taken out the Destroyers which have had a hard time penetrating the armour of any space marines they try shooting at. Usually at this point the Monolith will deep strike in either near his rear lines (taking out the Devastators with Necron Warriors entering from reserve) or in the middle of his army (for Flux Arc goodness).
As soon as my Necron Warriors get into rapid-fire range, the Space Marines will inevitably use the next turn to assault me. Once I'm stuck in combat, it's only a matter of time before I lose and get wiped out in a Sweeping Advance.
Captain, Vanguard and Terminators will deep strike wherever they are likely to engage the Lord or Warriors in combat and proceed to swiftly wipe out whatever they assault. My Monolith is mostly ignored while he pounds the Warriors until I phase out. My one weapon against the Terminators (the C'Tan) was safely killed in Turn 2.
I'm having real trouble here and when I win it's usually through sheer luck. I've come up with the following list which I hope is a bit more balanced. Thoughts very much welcome!
Warscythe, Res. Orb, Phase Shifter, Gaze of Flame
10 Flayed Ones
7-9 Scarab Swarms
Here's the rationale!
Lord: I'm hoping that by pairing the him with a Flayed One retinue and Gaze of Flame, the inevitable assaults are going to be less effective. Warscythe stays because it's my only real defence against heavy armour (ie. Terminators).
Flayed Ones: More troops on the field, less chance of Phase Out. More capable of being assaulted and surviving. They'll be used for a retinue.
Destroyers: Five would stand more chance of surviving a round of shooting than three. This time, the whole unit can't be wiped out by one turn of lucky Krak Missiles. We'll Be Back is now viable. 15 S6 shots will also dish out some hurt compared to nine. This might make it a viable hunting unit.
Scarabs: For turbo-boosting up the field to tie up Devastators, Vets or anything else threatening. Also good for boosting and contesting objectives.
Monolith: Speaks mostly for itself. This time I'll probably have it on the board from deployment though, rather than wasting all that yummy Particle Whip goodness for a few turns.
Lose the Monolith it is nothing but a big target and alot of points, try using Flayed ones and field some wraiths instead. Also take advantage of the Pariah if you want other options, and maybe a tomb spider if you have some points left over.
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I meant to say use (more flayed ones) from 10 to maybe 20
Get a 6th destroyer! Having two squads of three makes the squad far more survivable.
Tomb spyders can walk up and crank space marine squads in the teeth, can also get rid of drop pods and counter terminators. Drop the d-fields on the scarabs, and maybe drop their numbers, they won't be very effective against marines for the most part, their attacks hit too hard for the scarabs to keep in combat for too long as a staling unit. They would still be a good way to tie up his sternguard I suppose though.
The lord+FO idea is an interesting one, I had been considering that just last night actually, tell me how it goes.
By the way, the sternguard can change their ammo type every shooting phase. I'm glad you took the C'tan out though.
Terminators: Tomb Spyder (or two) and Destroyer fire
Sternguard: Scarab tie-up squad
Tactical Marines: Warrior rapid-fire, tomb spyders.
Devastators: Infiltrated Flayed ones. (keep your destroyers and spyders out of their firing arc!)
Vanguard + Captain: Destroyer fire, Particle Whip (Do NOT get charged)
I'd run a list like:
Lord - Res Orb (140)
Elits- 6 flayed ones - infiltrated (10
Troops - 3x10 Warriors (540)
FA - 2x3 Destroyers + 5 scarabs (360)
HS: 2x Tomb Spyders, Monolith (345)
Thanks Alzer, some great points there which I had completely overlooked. Tomb Spyders! They could very well be the saving grace against heavy infantry (Terminators). I was tempted to keep D. Fields on the Scarabs on the off-chance that any opponent would field tanks, but good ol' Gauss rapid fire would take care of that just as well.
I suppose I'm reluctant to take a 6th Destroyer because I've never really had much success with them. I mostly play MEQ armies and the Gauss Cannon, while good, just doesn't hold up to masses of rapid firing Gauss Blasters. I'm going to keep 5 for now and see how it goes - if it's more effective then I'll think about running 2 x 3.
Similarly, I haven't used Flayed Ones before so I'm going to try both the retinue and infiltration methods. I'll try to get back to you on how useful they are later in the week!
Well, I won! Played properly this is a wonderfully balanced list. I decided to take the list in bold in my post above. The mission was Annihilation, Dawn of War setup. Quickly summarising, the game went something like this:
I deploy 10 Warriors and Lord about 1/4 in on the table, at the start of my turn the other 20 Warriors and Monolith come in on my back edge. Destroyers and Scarabs turbo boost next to (and Scarabs, in front of) the Lord Retinue.
Marines deploy 1 Tactical Squad who move up the field towards me. Sternguard drop pod right into my deployment zone but are reduced to two men by the 30 Warriors rapid firing. They assault a Necron squad but are wiped out in CC.
Flayed Ones outflank and come in on turn 2 right next to one of his two Devastator Squads at the rear - promptly shot by the Heavy Bolter squad and assaulted by Missile squad. Reduced from 10 to 4 (all six get back up again the following turn!).
Scarabs turbo boost up towards the Devastators.
Terminators and Vanguard with Captain deep strike into the middle of the board. Terminators open fire at Lord retinue, but no kills. Vanguard assault the Scarabs who are reduced from 6 to 3. He took the bait.
Monolith drops a pieplate on the first Tactical Squad in the center and kills 5. Lord Retinue rapid fires and kills another 4. Lone Sergeant holds fast! Destroyers flit around and unload on the Terminators, killing two. Other Necron squads move out of assault range!
His 2nd Tactical Squad arrives by drop pod mid-board. Takes the Lord Retinue squad down to 6 out of 10. They get assaulted by the Lone Sergeant from Tactical 1, who survives.
Vanguard fails to kill the 3 remaining scarabs bases, the unit has 1 wound left. Opponent begins to get very frustrated.
Flayed Ones whittle Missile Devastator squad down to 3 men but the Space Marines stay in combat.
By the start of turn 4, the game looks like this. Sorry if the picture is a bit blurry:
2 Warriors in the Lord Retinue get back up. The Monolith teleports them out of combat and the other 2 down also get back up! The squad rapid fires on the Terminators, who are now down to 1.
Destroyers and Warrior squad open fire on Tactical 2 who are down to 3 men now.
Flayed Ones finish off the Missile Devastators and consolidate towards the HB Devastators.
Vanguard Veterans jump up towards my forces but fail to get within assault range.
By the start of turn 5, the game looks like this:
The game is pretty much finished by this point. The enemy has a full squad of HB Devastators, a Vanguard squad, 3 Tactical marines and 1 Terminator left. He has succeeded in killing only 3 Warriors, 1 Flayed One and 6 Scarab bases.
Turn 5 is spent laying down rapid fire on his remaining troops while using the Monolith to teleport any squad that gets assaulted out of combat. By the start of turn 6, the opponent forfeits.
Deploying the Monolith at the beginning of the game helped immensely. Being able to teleport troops around from Turn 1 to escape assault and better open up firing lanes basically won me the game.
Flayed Ones served their purpose wonderfully as a flank harrassment unit, even without any support they kept two Devastator squads occupied for most of the game. This more or less saved my Monolith and Destroyers from being shot down.
Scarabs managed to distract the opponent and keep his Vanguard Veterans and Captain in combat for 3 rounds! This allowed my Warrior Squads to move around and decimate the rest of his army without fear of assault.
Terminators survived for quite a while but were too slow to be able to get into assault range, mostly thanks to the Monolith teleporting any Warrior squads that got too near out of range.
Destroyers as a unit of 5 was able to lay down more effective supporting fire and survive much longer. While a unit of 3 looks like an easy target, five are a bit more formiddable, leading the opponent to concentrate instead of easier phase-out targets such as Warriors.
All in all, great game. I think I played a bit too conservatively, keeping Warrior Squads away from his forces a bit too much meaning the game dragged on a bit as he chased me around. With a bit more aggressive movement within close range (and rapid firing) I could probably have wiped him out by Turn 4. Lessons have been learned!
Thanks for the battle report, Ravendove, really enjoyed reading it!
Hope to post some of my own soon!!
Nice battle report. Had you not played and won with your list, I may have suggest Wraiths instead of Scarabs.
I just love the way Wraiths phase thru scenery, buildings, everything. Point for Point they do not have as many attacks/saves as Flayed, but you are paying for Speed & Mobility.
Last edited by LugNutz; April 24th, 2009 at 18:18.
Good job! I've learned the hard way NOT to keep the 'lith in reserve. Each turn you do, you're wasting 200+ points of your army. Think about that. As soon as it hits the table, most everybody wants to hit it. Nice way to draw fire.
I don't know flayed ones well, but scarabs can be neat "tarpit" units, as you found out. Fun how they "stick" to something and don't let go!
The trick to destroyers is not to use them all alone. Make sure you target as little of your opponent's army with as much of your ARMY (warriors, destroyers, etc.) as possible, and they'll go boom.
Well done. everyone likes marines getting a good thrashing!
As for your army list if you want to just kill off marines then i have one word for you SCARABS. They will absolutly play hell with marines. I also would never run destroyers against them. They never really pay for their points against 3+ armour. Great against anything else but its something i leave at home if i know im fighting Meq. I would run 3 squads of 3x scarabs to tie up any shooty infantry they have (devastators especially). I also run as many tomb spyders as i can against them. With their devastators tied up they really don't have anything to hurt them. Apart from that flayed ones and warriors with possibly a flying circus stuck in there and your well away. As for HQ, if you can't fit in a flying circus i would go for a destroyer lord with a warsythe. Most marines have a tough time against toughness 6 and hes great for zooming round blowing up light vehicles or finishing off terminators that have been dropped down to one or 2 guys left.
Hope this helps!
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