2000 Point Nutcracker - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    2000 Point Nutcracker

    Ok, as I said in my last post, I was on a bus for 14 hours and I really enjoy making lists. This is what I came up with for my goal list as of right now. I have noticed two problems, when running through some mock battles in my head, this army would have trouble taking on something like an Avatar. It has enough long range weapons to take him down, but he will most likely be in cover (I used shield units) and once he got in CC, nothing could touch him. This could be a problem with demons or Hive Tyrants I would imagine. The second is the Wraithlord not having a Seer. He fits perfectly with the strategy, so I really dont want to take him out, and one turn of doing nothing could go either way, not hurting or being terrible. However, that is where your input can help! Have at it.

    The list is comprised of a firebase with two wings to crack the nut! I have two types of setups for the wings as well. I like both, but could use some input from those with experience.

    Wings

    Autarch
    w/ Spider Jump Pack, Fusion Gun, Power Weapon, Mandiblasters
    10 x Warp Spiders
    w/ exarch, powerblades, Spinneret Rifle

    6 x Guardian Jetbikes
    w/ two Shuriken Cannons
    1 x Warlock
    w/ conceal, Singing Spear

    5 x Shining Spears
    w/ exarch, Star Lance, Withdraw
    5 x Shining Spears
    w/ exarch, Star Lance, Withdraw

    Ok, this one is because I love Warp Spiders! I realize this is a bit unorthodox, but until I have the exprience to say otherwise, it seems to me it could work out.

    The Autarch and Spiders are the major threath on one side. They should really be able to tear up lightly armored units with Str 6 shots and should be able to do some real damage to more heavily armored ones with two AP1 shots and 8 Powerweapon attacks with a BS of 5+. Flying with this unit would be the Guardian Jetbikes. They are really more of a distraction, though they should be able to cause some pain as well if need be. I see them using their 3+ saves and 5++ conceal saves to protect the Warp Spiders if they should ever get caught out in the open. With three weapons at 8+ Str, this side could also bust some tanks.

    The Spears would be on the other side and pack a real punch. They can take on Terminator squads, completely wipe out mid sized squads of medium armored units, and get out of combat when they need to. Plus, with T 4 and 3+ saves, they can take a beating.


    Firebase

    Asurmen
    10 x Dire Avengers
    w/ exarch, Power Weapon, Shimmershield

    7 x Pathfinders

    5 x Dark Reapers
    w/ exarch, EML, Crack Shot

    1 x Fire Prism

    Wraithlord
    w/ EML

    Here, the Reapers hold down the middle. The Fire Prism is deployed on one flank and the Pathfinders on another. The Wraithlord would be stationed slightly between the Pathfinders and Dark Reapers to protect the side of the Reapers from any Deep Strikers or flanking attacks. Any major threats would be engaged by the Dire Avenger squad. Simply put, Asurmen is ridiculous... In the Eldar army list (only one I am familiar with) the only characters that can beat him are Jain Zar with the charge and the Avatar. Anything else, he rocks. He is nigh impossible to hit, rarely misses, and provides valuable skills to the Dire Avengers.

    So, that is the list. The other option would be having the Autarch in one Shining Spears squad, an extra Dire Avenger squad, and a Bke Seer Council rather than the second Spears squad and Asurmen. This would pair a mobile stall unit with an extremely hard hitting strike unit with 17 Str 6 Powerweapon attacks on the Spears and the Guardian Jetbikes. However, it would prevent them from using Withdraw as long as the Autarch was there. On the other hand, the Council would be extremely resilient with rerollable 3+, 4++ saves and T4.

    My list has -

    26+ Power Weapon attacks per turn if the Shining Spears get the charge
    12 Str 6 Power Weapon Attacks
    6 potential Str 8+ antitank weapons, 3 mobile
    7 BS4, 2+ wound with 33% chance of AP1 shots a turn
    Plethora of AP3+ weapons

    There you have it. In theory, I would say it has a good amount of AT once my Wings get in there, lots of Power Weapon attacks, Reapers which just own, and the Pathfinders to pick on any super high Toughness units.

    I am not familiar with much besides the Eldar and Marines, so I am not sure how this would fare against other armies. But with high Initiative and all those power attacks and 3+ saves, I hope they would be able to survive some swarms as well.

    Thoughts?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Dire's Avatar
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    List is nice, though your Shining Spears will suffer well before they die easily doing nothing but sinking your points.

    Prism = a
    2x Prism = a*a

    Slight difference. I hope I'm undestandable.

    Dual Death Spinner>>>Spinerrete Rifle

    Too many Spiders in a single unit... and they need Withdraw.

    Asurmenites need Serpent.

    Too many Pathfinders in a single unit. They're not to kill, they're to spread fear. Via pinning test your opponent is forced to take.

    Besides, nice to see something fresh.

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    The spider squad may be a bit large, my personal taste is around 7 or 8 the full unit can sometimes get hard to hide/move. I'd say play around with the numbers some to find what works best for you. the withdraw is a good idea, if nothing else it lets you jump out end of enemy turn for another round of shots and a charge.

    I have to kind of agree with dire on the shining spears I own 10 of them myself and love them but they draw alot of attention and it doesn't take many loses to really hurt the squads performance. Having said that the times they do work right it is a thing of wonder, just wish it happened more often.

    One possible way to get a babysitter into your list would be to switch asurmen with a fortuneseer and give the exarch the powers. less overall points and the rerolling saves can try to make up for the loss of the PLs melee, just a thought.

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    Senior Member FartsMcGee's Avatar
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    Yeah i agree, Asurmen has a lot of well aimed shooty, but its still just a shuricat. A fortune seer will actively change how the army functitons, instead of just tossing a couple more shots.

    My other thought is that going into a match with an expectation of a certain level of performance for all of your units will probably only result in dissappointment. I would feel confident of the wing holding a side if all of the wing units were on one side, but to split them up means that your opponent can simly pop a hole in one or the others and have a safe place to run. The other thing I've noticed is that you're counting a lot of power weapon strikes out of units that aren't all that great in CC. Sure an Autarch is alright in CC, but to drag his warp spiders in with him with out a doom seer to ensure at least a couple of 5's means that the spiders take losses and lower their ability to crank out lots and lots of shots. Spiders aren't really that much of a CC unit imo, even with the upgrades, cause they are still just strength 3 and toughness 3, at least banshees each get two swings of a power weapons. If you really want that unit to function in CC i'd really consider a doom seer.

    Also your list is really hurting for antitank especially at 2000 pts. The Spears' lance shots are nice, but not nearly reliable enough to pop anything scary due to their limited range, one prism and 2 eml's is the only reliable AT in the list, and two of the those shots are probably better used sorting out hordes or heavy inf. Personally I see all sorts of trouble with mech anything especially land raiders. Don't get me wrong I like spears, but to throw them out there without any real support to either screen for em or increase their survivability is akin to betting the family farm on opie the dyslexic in a speed reading contest cause he said he's feeling good today. (I don't mean to be that mean, but the analogy struck me as funny so i used it.)
    Last edited by FartsMcGee; June 13th, 2009 at 18:11.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FartsMcGee View Post
    Yeah i agree, Asurmen has a lot of well aimed shooty, but its still just a shuricat. A fortune seer will actively change how the army functitons, instead of just tossing a couple more shots.

    My other thought is that going into a match with an expectation of a certain level of performance for all of your units will probably only result in dissappointment. I would feel confident of the wing holding a side if all of the wing units were on one side, but to split them up means that your opponent can simly pop a hole in one or the others and have a safe place to run. The other thing I've noticed is that you're counting a lot of power weapon strikes out of units that aren't all that great in CC. Sure an Autarch is alright in CC, but to drag his warp spiders in with him with out a doom seer to ensure at least a couple of 5's means that the spiders take losses and lower their ability to crank out lots and lots of shots. Spiders aren't really that much of a CC unit imo, even with the upgrades, cause they are still just strength 3 and toughness 3, at least banshees each get two swings of a power weapons. If you really want that unit to function in CC i'd really consider a doom seer.

    Also your list is really hurting for antitank especially at 2000 pts. The Spears' lance shots are nice, but not nearly reliable enough to pop anything scary due to their limited range, one prism and 2 eml's is the only reliable AT in the list, and two of the those shots are probably better used sorting out hordes or heavy inf. Personally I see all sorts of trouble with mech anything especially land raiders. Don't get me wrong I like spears, but to throw them out there without any real support to either screen for em or increase their survivability is akin to betting the family farm on opie the dyslexic in a speed reading contest cause he said he's feeling good today. (I don't mean to be that mean, but the analogy struck me as funny so i used it.)
    Extremely helpful. All the comments were. Glad to hear it is at least a little unique. Just wanted to address some of the stuff.

    - Asurmen is there mainly to help hold down the firebase. His ability to take on most anything in CC will be a buffer for the Reapers and Pathfinders. Whenever an enemy deepstrikes or cruises in on bikes or jumppacks, he will be there to intercept or countercharge.

    - When it comes to the Warp Spiders, I wasnt counting TOO much on their prowess in CC. Mainly they were going to be shooting and charging in when necessary, if at all. The Autarch was there to ensure they could actually do something if they had to get into combat with his high WS and attacks. I can see that a unit of 10 is too big and unwieldly, actually 11 with the Autarch. Will trim it down.

    - With some of the points saved, I can split the unit of Pathfinders into two smaller units and have them on each flank. Force more tests that way.

    - Expectations werent too high, but that is what I had them there to do!

    - If I gave the Spiders withdraw, wouldnt it be rendered useless with the Autarch in the unit? Same with the Spears if he joined them? Havent checked the new rulebook yet. I am on a 4 month trip in South America so it will be a bit before I can brush up on the new changes...

    Alright, so too light on AT and looking like Asurmen is going to be unnecessary. Might give it a try at some point to see, but will look at reworking the list. Perhaps the other one was a bit more effective. The only thing is, how would you recommend getting more AT in there?

    Wing 1

    Autarch
    w/ Jetbike, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun, Mandiblaster
    Shining Spears x 5
    w/ exarch, Star Lance, Withdraw

    Guardian Jetbikes x 6
    w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
    Warlock
    w/ Conceal or Enhance (not sure which would be more useful), Singing Spear

    Wing 2

    Farseer
    w/ Jetbike, Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones
    Warlocks x 6
    w/ Singing Spear x 2, Enhance, Embolden, Destructor x 3, Jetbikes

    Firebase

    Dark Reapers x 5
    w/ exarch, EML, Crack Shot

    Fire Prism

    Fire Prism

    Dire Avengers x 10
    w/ exarch, Power Weapon, Shimmershield, Defend

    Dire Avengers x 10
    w/ exarch, 2nd Catapult, Bladestorm

    Pathfinders x 5

    Pathfinders x 5

    Another option I just though about was making the Farseer council part of the firebase in lieu of either one or both of the Dire Avenger squads as they are just as survivable if not more so. After that, I could replace their wing with something else, maybe some Waveserpent mounted troops with another squad of Guardian Jetbikes to screen them?

    Again, thanks for all the comments!

  7. #6
    Senior Member FartsMcGee's Avatar
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    There are still some issues in this list i think, the low model count for one is gonna be one of the number one problems it faces, but the jet council will be a lot of fun. This is definately a list that needs to keep its options open. Running 2 wings i think its still quite a bit of a liability. Just use all of the bikes to force your opponent into range for your shooting gallery. Bike lists can be lethal, but they aren't a gimme by any means. A starting strat for a list like this I would suggest is good old fashioned side denial. The jet council is brutal especially if you make the vanilla bikes screen for the shinning spears. This will only really work if the wings are concentrated. There isn't enough staying power in the mobile units if they are split apart. The pathfinders are a fun unit, just be sure to keep em out of assault range. With you using all 5 troop slots in this list it'll be adventageous to keep the pathfinders off of the objectives and keep people from out right slaughtering the pathfinders.

    As for the AT issues 2 prisms, the melta on the autarch, and the witchblades/singing spears on the jet warlocks isn't bad. If there was a way to throw a serpented unit of dragons in there i'd consider it, but at this point you probably have enough at this point to stay afloat.

    I imagine that you'll find that the dire avengers die off pretty fast. The CC dire avengers isn't a build that I'm a huge fan off to be honest. But that's a personal preference i suppose. My thoughts are if you can't shoot what ever is in assault range to pieces before it gets you the cc perks in DA's aren't gonna keep you afloat anyway. I mean if two bladestorms, a TL prism blast, and a volley of dark reaper fire doesn't cook an incoming unit you probably failed to use your bikes correctly.

    Embolden will be the most useful warlock power on the jet bikes cause my jetbikes ALWAYS end uptaking like 50,000 checks a game, and since they are falling baack 3d6 it can hurt a lot when they fail.

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