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heya all, sporting my new saim hann list as my last one did only so so in the past bunch of 40k battles I've been hitting. Here goes:
Farseer ss bike fortune doom singing spear 143
4x Warlocks, bikes, 1 embolden, 3 destructor, 3 spears 224
5x guardian jetbikes, 1x cannon 120
8x DA, exarch, bladestorm 123
Serpent, SS, Scatter Lasers 125
Fire Prism 115
Fire Prism, holo fields 150
To give some tactics, the whole army (depending on the opponent's army) stays in reserve. The seer council play as a strong survivable distraction to my opponent, and generally strike mid field with exceptions. The jetbikes (couldn't find the points for both HF on the prism and the extra bike and cannon) will be playing a defensive roll, and maybe taking pot shots at low armor. DA focus mainly on protecting my objective, but can switch to a static firebase and be replaced by the jetbikes if need be. The Lastly the fireprisms takes basic shots, and move flat out to contest enemy objectives.
comments and concerns highly welcome, any improvements would be great. =)
Last edited by Speed; June 22nd, 2009 at 18:06.
Looks pretty fun, always love seeing bike councils. IMO you need two prisms to make the most of their might. Either ditch the Vypers for another or get something else I say.
Lose the Starcannons for some scatter lasers or something and use the points for a Spirit Stone for your WS, its pretty useful for 10 pts.
I was gonna make some other amazingly important point, can't for the life of me remember it :p
Hope you get some better luck with this list.
I love my vypers, but I can see where this list would majorly boost in effectiveness if I switch them for a prism. Also, because of the extra high str low ap another fireprism would bring it does open up that room for the starcannons to be brought down to scatter lasers. I'll reformat the list now
Loads of help thanks a bunch!
Nice list, but theres one thing I don't understand.
I'm a Saim-Hann player too and I totally don't get the biker council. Sure its an epic conversion project, which a good enough reason for doing it I guess, but what are they actually good for in the game?
I don't mean to be facetious, but they are super expensive, don't carry power weapons and don't have masses of attacks, so against anything with AS3+ or better they will just bounce off. Sure they will pop any vehicle they run into but there are much cheaper anti-vehicle options in the Eldar army.
Given that Shining spears are at least 10pts cheaper per model I'm struggling to see why they're not a better choice unless theres something huge that I'm missing.
to make an effective distraction, the unit HAS to survive. The council can wipe a lot more than you think, although the wording is fishy in the codex, my friends and I play the way that the upgrade to the spear does not limit you from using the witchblade and pistol instead, also I learn a lot from a guy that's been to GT's and the like and those rules have always been accepted. So the council lays down destructor, which does a mighty bit itself, then charges in with three attacks a piece always wounding on 2s. Granted, facing termies is not ideal, but if it's a squad of six or less, the seer council normally eliminates them in one or two rounds of combat.
On to the important part though, the survivability. The seer council gets fortune. Sure doom is a neat trick to take out some enemy stuff on the way, but fortune does wonders. If you get shot at by something that would instant kill a shinning spear (with withdraw, this is likely to get shot at a lot) then you can use the invuln save and reroll it giving a 1/4 chance per high strength wound to kill the warlock. Then add in that if they turbo boosted (which is normal for the first round) that 1/4 chance becomes a 1/9 chance as they get the 3+ cover save. Then add in that if the weapon is not tough enough to skip the save, the same 1/9 counts. That's extremely better than an instant killed shinning spear (or 1/3 from turbo boosting) or a 1/3 from a normal save.
The seer council does not have power weapons, true, but they dish out the hurt much more than the shinning spears when you count in survivability.
Looks for me are only a side bonus and fun bit compared to their pure effectiveness on the field. But it also depends on how you play and what you play. Test them out with your SS models and see how they fair. for 1000 pt games 4 locks, and for 1000+, 5 locks. give all of them destructor but one for embolden (making sure the seer doesn't fold his fortune rolls) and check them out. Let me know how it goes, and thanks for the question!
So essentially a pts denial unit that is pretty handy at killing tanks, I guess I can live with that
The shining spears have done me well, when two of them and an exarch slam into a terminator unit they've already made their points back in most situations. Having one less attack with power weapons is better against most things that are AS 3+ or better.
In addition I don't know how you can claim an model is armed with a singing spear AND witchblade because the codex very clearly says that the witchblade is UPGRADED TO a singing spear. I think most schools of English grammar would agree that means the model does not still have a witch blade.
Question: Do the Jetbikes ridden by Farseers/Warlocks carry inbuilt shuriken catapults in the same way Shining spear and guardian ones do?
All jetbikes have the twinlinked catapults. And as said the strength of the council is in how hard they are to kill and when on bikes how fast they can get around. With the new combat rez rules it is very easy for a council to win simply because they don't die, against high save units it is a bit harder but they can crush hordes easy and if you run with destructors the shots before the charge are very nasty.
As for the list perhaps look at dropping the holofields on the prism and get another bike with a cannon. I also like a warlock with embolden in guardian jetbike squads but not sure where the points would come from.
Well regardless of which way you play, you can just take two or three spears in stead of the full load out. And it is true that a shunning spear group will get there points back if they hit a group like terminators, but overall they are less effective due to their low survivability (a 3+ save won't do too much when you factor in that they have few models and if your hit and run fails to put you in cover, your an easy juicy target.) Don't misunderstand me, I do agree that shining spears do better vs some meq units, but the seer counciltakes over for being more tactical, as it can handle 3+ well, be hordes even better. The thing that makes the council more competitive and shine, though, is it's survivability. Just as easily as you can rip through terminators, the space marines have guns to kill the spears. The council on the otherhand will take about 3/8s of the losses than spears. That survivability allows them to deliver the hurt and keep their vps