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  1. #1
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    1500 points vs Marines, post mortem

    It should first be mentioned that I didn't know I would be playing Marines, only that it was probable. Other possible opponents were CSM, Orks or IG.

    Troops -

    10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch, TwSc, BS
    10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch, PwSS, BS, Defend w/ Farseer, Doom, Guide, RoWit, SS in Wave Serpent w/ EML, SC, SS
    7 Pathfinders

    Elites -

    10 Howling Banshees w/ Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatic, w/ Farseer (Doom, RoWit) in Wave Serpent w/ TwLiSC, SC.

    Heavy Support -

    3 Dark Reapers
    Fire Prism
    Fire Prism

    A few notes here -

    Why did I take a Power Weapon and Shimmershield and Defend in one of the squads of Dire Avengers? Well, my opponents tend to run some pretty ridiculous CC squads such as Honour Guard etc. but still, I regret this now. I wanted to try it out as I've never used anything except the basic twin cats w/ bladestorm set up. But essentially this was a waste of shots and points as the squad only went into combat once against a lone sternguard.

    Other little niggles for me were the twin-linked shuricannon on the Wave Serpent. Basically I wanted the cheapest option (so why take the underslung shuricannon?) and in truth it wasn't that annoying once I'd dropped off the Banshees.

    The Dark Reapers were also experimental - I've only ever run a full squad of 5 with an exarch before, so I wanted to see if they could be any use as a basic squad. As for the Fire Prisms - shockingly, this was my first time EVER using Fire Prisms. That's pretty unbelievable seeing as I've played 4000 or so points in Apocalypse before.

    My opponents force as far as I remember was -

    2 Squads of 10 Tactical Marines (both with meltagun and heavy bolter)
    2 squads of 10 Sternguard (both with meltaguns, one with ML and one with heavy bolter)
    1 squad of 8 Honour Guard with Chaplain and Azrael (pretty sure this is illegal but hey if he wants to spend a third of his points on one non-scoring squad more fool him)

    The battlefield was an extremely cover-heavy urban set up. I placed my Pathfinders on my objective (right of center) in cover, with the footslogging squad of DAs about 16" to the left. The Wave Serpent with with DAs started on the left flank, while the Howling Banshees started on the right flank. The Fire Prisms sat at the back within line of site of each other, with one on each side of the board.

    He had his two tactical squads at the back in a central position, holding his home objective, while his sternguard squads flanked his hq, again going down the centre.

    The problem with his ridiculous HQ squad is the 2+ saves. Sure, I came prepared with Fire Prisms, but then he has that 4+ invulnerable save for Azrael. More on this later. He took the first turn, and pushed his Sternguard and HQ squads forward. Unable to fire anything due to range he ran, and then passed to me. Having doomed both Sternguard squads and guided the Dark Reapers, I swung round the flanks with my Wave Serpents, rushed forward with the DAs on foot into another piece of cover, going for a Bladestorm on the right-most Sternguard. Unfortunately, I was only in range with 5, so I was left looking pretty silly and only killed two marines.

    My Dark Reapers were looking rather impotent with all the cover around, but they stayed picking away at the marines for the whole game, killing two or so per turn and probably making their points back. I decided to do two focussed shots with my Fire Prisms onto the Honour Guard, and promptly missed by miles with both. The Pathfinders managed 3 AP1/Rending wounds between them, but all were saved by Azrael's 4+ invulnerable save. The Wave Serpents killed a couple of Marines between them (this was the only turn I was bothered by having two Str 6 weapons on one of my Wave Serpents).

    On turn 2 the Sternguard stayed in the cover they'd achieved last turn, and blasted away while the Honour Guard charged forwards. A krak missile glanced onto the DA Wave Serpent with a shaken result, and two Pathfinders were killed by Sternguard "ignore cover" bolts. The Honour Guard killed three of the Dire Avengers which had just bladestormed. The two tactical squads sat at the back and looked mean

    My turn two was rather more eventful. The surviving Dire Avengers ran for cover (they had already been in cover but fancied some cover further away from the Honour Guard). The Farseers doomed the Sternguard squads again while the Wave Serpent DAs were guided. The Howling Banshees disembarked and ran, assaulting the Sternguard on the right, wiping them out and consolidating into cover. The Dire Avengers on the left hopped out and bladestormed the other Sternguard, killing all but three (guide and doom makes for a fun result). The Dark Reapers trimmed that squad down to 1 man. The Pathfinders went for the Honour Guard again, killing one; while the Fire Prisms were on target this turn, the ones that were hit were either not wounded or passed their invulnerable save. This was rather frustrating, as I had been really hoping to instadeath one of those characters. Still, there was time for that later.

    On turn three my opponent focussed the vast majority of his fire on the Banshees, as he was worried about the initiative 10 and all those power weapons. He killed all but four with his bolters (the tactical squads were able to help) and then wiped out the rest with his Honour Guard, although I did take one out with my Exarch. The solitary Sternguard took another shot at my Pathfinders, killing one.

    At this stage my home objective was looking pretty dicey. The pathfinders were sitting on it, but pretty close to the Honour Guard, and the only other squads at the back was a half-strength squad of Dire Avengers and three Dark Reapers. I munched the last Sternguard with my Dire Avengers and moved both Wave Serpents round to start pounding the tactical squads (out of meltagun range). The half-strength dire avengers came back for another Bladestorm, this time at the (doomed) Honour Guard, causing 8 wounds which were all promptly saved. This turn I'd guided the EML wave serpent which killed 2 marines with a plasma missile. The other took out one marine with his shuricannons.

    The pathfinders managed to kill another Honour guard this turn, but they were definitely going to be assaulted next turn. The Fire Prisms killed the rest of the standard honour guard, leaving around 4 models - Azrael, the Chaplain, the champion and the banner bearer. On turn four they handily wiped out my pathfinders, and both squads of DAs took casualties from bolter fire.

    I returned fire, bladestorming the tactical squad on the left and pounding the squads again with my Wave Serpents. Between them my DA squads were within running distance of all three objectives, but the tactical squads could take 2 of them with some dynamic movement. The Fire Prisms took out all of the HQ squad except the Honour Guard Champion (my cheering as Azrael fell, taking his invulnerable save with him quickly turned to a scowl as my opponent reminded me that the last man was in 4+ cover anyway).

    On turn 5 my opponent continued to whittle down my Dire Avenger squads, leaving me with about 10 non-tank models on the table. The 3-man squad of DAs near the Honour Guard bladestormed him, causing him to (finally) die. The Dark Reapers and the Fire Prisms turned their attention to the tactical squads, wiping one out and reducing the last squad to three models. This was my first ever use of the S6 AP 3 combined fire pie plate, but because the squad was in cover it only killed two marines, disappointingly.

    Turn six saw my opponent move up to secure his home objective with his three marines, meaning that we were on one each and I had to kill his squad on my last turn. Both dire avenger squads survived this turn, so I was pretty sure of the win by now. The Wave Serpents took the squad down to one man, leaving me to bladestorm him with my Doom/Guide seer squad for the win. I managed to get within range of the objective that turn, giving me the win with 2 objectives to nil.

    Another post with my thoughts on how units performed later, sleep now.

    Please comment/criticise.


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    Senior Member niraco's Avatar
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    I can criticize that you let the banshees get assaulted....but still only 1 killed? at I 10? with 3 attacks each from acrobatics(9 at S3 3 at S5)? you got a little bad roll here i think.

    I never saw the effects of doom. I was doing between 15 and 20 wounds on a doomed tactical squad yesterday.
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    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    Id say you did rather well, keeping your units outside of wave serpents for a majority of the game.

    I always move them back into the serpent when they are done, to move safely (somewhat) to the next target.

    I am considering a doom/guide combo for my DAs, i just don't know if the point cost is justified.

    at 1500, I put 5 DAs with a guideseer in a falcon. Ever tried guided falcons? not bad. Then they go sit on objectives towards the end of the game. Ive had to get out once and assault a unit with them once. It was a dicey close call.
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    I've just read about this Battle of Auroura Prime thing. What format changes to the above would be necessary to submit it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niraco View Post
    I can criticize that you let the banshees get assaulted....but still only 1 killed? at I 10? with 3 attacks each from acrobatics(9 at S3 3 at S5)? you got a little bad roll here i think.

    I never saw the effects of doom. I was doing between 15 and 20 wounds on a doomed tactical squad yesterday.
    By this stage I had only several Banshees left and his 4+ invulnerable save made things difficult. Also don't forget it was his turn so he wasn't doomed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    By this stage I had only several Banshees left and his 4+ invulnerable save made things difficult. Also don't forget it was his turn so he wasn't doomed.
    Actually, Doom would last through his turn, but reading your report it seems Doom was on the SternGuard anyone so it wouldn't matter. Although luck was against you on the rolls since even with only 4 Banshees you should have taken out at least two of his marines statistically speaking, but statistics have a funny way about them. =)

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    Dark Reapers - performed adequately given the size of the unit. Survived intact and probably killed 10 marines over the course of the game, recouping their points.

    Dire Avengers - as usual the Exarch with twin cats proves to be the correct choice. I found the power weapon and shimmershield were wasted and I would rather have had the extra 5 BS shots at 2+ to hit, particularly seeing as that unit had a guide/doomseer at hand. Still, the Dire Avengers one me the game with the right mix of firepower and staying power, surviving to take two objectives.

    Farseers - I would take this combination again - next time I might consider giving the Banshee doomseer Fortune as well.

    Fire Prisms - Disappointing, frankly. The huge amount of cover really spoiled the effect of linked fire. However, they did the majority of the damage against the Honour Guard, killing a Chaplain and Azrael among others. I was very lucky that my opponent took very few anti-tank weapons.

    Howling Banshees - probably did not quite recoup their points cost despite wiping out a large number of Sternguard. However given that my opponent spent literally everything on his next turn to take them out I believe they did well. I'm happy with choosing an Executioner over Mirror Swords (although the mirror swords look awesome). I've yet to decide whether I prefer the more economical outflanking Striking Scorpions or not.

    Pathfinders - Not against Sternguard. Usually an absolutely solid troops choice for sitting on the home objectives. Instagibbed by the Sternguard Dragonfire bolts. It was a miracle they survived to be wiped out by the Honour Guard.

    Wave Serpents - proved to be absolutely necessary, once again. If you're ever thinking of leaving without them - think again. Each one is a Bladestorm or a HB assault in the bank, and then after they still have pretty decent weaponry and distraction value.

    All in all I would have to say there was no outright man of the match or MVP. The army worked well as a whole, although I must admit that I was very fortunate with my opponent's lack of AT. Still, I was pleased to win with what was frankly very average dice-rolling.

    What would you guys have chosen if you'd known that your opponent was going to be using that Space Marine list in a cover-heavy board? I think I would have taken a sacrificial squad of Fire Dragons and probably dropped the Rangers and Fire Prisms in favour of another combat squad and another squad of DA. Also I would drop the PW/SS exarch for an Exarch with twin cats.

    If I could get a clarification on taking Dark Angels special characters with a Space Marine codex HQ choice that would be good. Not that I'm bitter or anything, but a squad full of power weapons with 2+/4+ saves is just ridiculous.

    ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by Inian View Post
    Actually, Doom would last through his turn, but reading your report it seems Doom was on the SternGuard anyone so it wouldn't matter. Although luck was against you on the rolls since even with only 4 Banshees you should have taken out at least two of his marines statistically speaking, but statistics have a funny way about them. =)
    In that case I fail. I suppose I've never been in a situation where it mattered before. But yes, I believe I hadn't doomed the Honour Guard until after the Sternguard were all down. How do you deal with a unit like that? It's just such an enormous proposition I didn't even know where to start. The only weapon that was really good for shooting them and not hit and miss were the Pathfinders which were busy being shot to pieces by the Sternguard.
    Last edited by Reborn; July 20th, 2009 at 21:25.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    If I could get a clarification on taking Dark Angels special characters with a Space Marine codex HQ choice that would be good. Not that I'm bitter or anything, but a squad full of power weapons with 2+/4+ saves is just ridiculous.

    What squad was this?
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    8 Honour Guard inc. chapter banner plus Chaplain plus Azrael. Ridiculously deadly if it gets into combat, I'm sure you can imagine.

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    If I could get a clarification on taking Dark Angels special characters with a Space Marine codex HQ choice that would be good. Not that I'm bitter or anything, but a squad full of power weapons with 2+/4+ saves is just ridiculous.
    I agree with you that it is slightly rediculous, but I know for a fact in the new marine army their assult terminators have 2+/3++ saves if they take storm shields, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn their are 2+/4++ troops out there as well... If its any consolation they cost 40 points a piece so they're definitely not cheap at all.
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