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For starters I'd like to thank everyone here for all stickies, tutorials and useful information that do help a lot. I'd also like to stress the fact that I'm French, so please bear with me despite all english mistakes
I'm a newcomer to the game and have chosen Necrons. We have scheduled an annihilation game this thursday with a Space Marines friend of mine. This is a house game, so playing with bases, or pretending to own some units is acceptable.
I expect a squad of terminators, probably a dreadnought or Predator, and of course 2 units of SM, 10-man strong with launcher and plasma.
I've been scratching my head to build an army list that could compete with that, but so far nothing seems like a good choice.
At first I looked for something that could tie up Terminators, or handle them from distance or in close combat. For obvious reasons I'm not talking about C'Tan or monolith with such a small amount of points. Shooting Termies is irrelevant, and even Heavy Destroyers are too expensive and won't be able to take out 5 of them. In close combat only wraiths might do the trick, and with a CC lord that would cost me around 500pts not to smash them, but only to delay them.
So I began to think that avoiding termies would be the best option ... the flying circus is promising, but against 10-man strong units, I would have to use 10 immortals (I do need those 20 shots to have a chance of killing SM). There again the Veil lord with 10 immortals is ludicrously expensive, and leaves me with only the mandatory warrior units ...
A CC lord to assault his units might to the trick, but he'll get owned rather quickly against those 10SM.
The last thing I'm thinking of is use warriors instead of immortals in the circus and take majors risks in Deep Strikes. This leaves enough points for 3 light Destroyers. The bad news is that I would need the Veil and the orb because of the warriors :/
So the list I'm thinking of is far from thrilling :
Lord with veil + orb
15 warriors that will hopefully be veiled to challenge vehicles or shooting units
3 light destroyers that should avoid deepstriking termies and provide glancing hits and fire support
I would have liked to use scarab bases to tie up one of this shooting squads, but I failed to build a relevant list including them.
This is a weird post and I'm sorry to bother you, but unfortunately I can't lay my hands on a Necron player here, so I have no feedback from Necron vs SM battles.
Don't worry, I do expect to get raped in the process, but I'd like to take some units with me before losing this one
All inputs welcome
Welcome to the Necron forum! (and to Librarium Online)
Necrons are at a severe disadvantage at small games, because all our units are so expensive.
I have to say that in an 800pt game, I would recommend against using the flying circus. You simply do not have enough points, so your troops need all the support they can get (with your Lord). Keep everything together.
Obviously, at 800pts a C'Tan is out of the question. This leaves you with two options:
- Weight of fire
- Warscythes (Pariah or Lord)
Weight of fire, I'm afraid, just isn't an option. Quickly working the maths out (3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, 2+ save), you'd need 18 shots from Necron Warriors to kill 1 Terminator, with average rolls. Immortals are not much better (14 shots).
In this case, I would say a Necron Lord is your best bet.
Give him a Resurrection Orb, Warscythe, Phylactery and Phase Shifter. He'll hit on 4+, wound on 3+ and ignore all their armour saves. He'll take quite a lot of hits back though, but don't forget you are still able to WBB when you die, and there's a chance you could come back to 3 wounds.
But seriously, I would try to ignore the Terminators for most of the game, until they charge you. Focus fire on his other (scoring, troops choice) units first.
I have to wonder if taking 3 of them vs a SM army is going to even be effective. You won't kill many marines and 150pts is a lot for a semi-effective anti tank unit. Consider taking one or two Heavy Destroyers instead and use the points left over to get more Necron Warriors. Heavy Destroyers can also knock out Terminators if you get desperate.
Scarabs with Disruption fields are also an option. Though they may not destroy, they can certainly hurt tanks. 10 of them are cheap and that's 40 attacks. Let's work it out:
40 attacks, usually hitting on 4+, will cause 3.3 glancing hits. If the Dreadnought or Predator didn't move, that will be 6.6 glancing hits. More than enough to destroy a weapon, immobilise or otherwise rendering the vehicle useless. Scarabs are also great for tying up big units like Tactical Squads in combats that will take a while to escape from, because they are Stubborn.
If you have enough scarabs, you can deploy them as a shield in front of your units to give yourself a cover save also. It can be a handy tactic.
Here's the list I would take:
Necron Lord - 195pts
Resurrection Orb, Warscythe, Phylactery, Phase Shifter
10 Necron Warriors - 180pts
10 Necron Warriors - 180pts
8 Scarab Swarms - 112pts
2 Heavy Destroyers - 130pts
Bienvenue a LO! Votre anglais, c'est tres bien!
First off, I'm moving this to the army lists sub-forum. You may get more responses there.
I agree with everything that's been said. Two heavy destroyers will work well here, taking out armour pretty easily. They can also hit the terminators. Your opponent is unlikely to have more than five of them in an 800-point list.
Have you considered a Tomb Spyder? If you make a single scarab base with it on the first turn, that's five high-toughness wounds. A cheap and very scary unit in an 800-point army. It would also put up quite a fight with the terminators. If you use one, along with two heavy destroyers, your two squads of 10 and 15 warriors, plus the lord, that gives you 65 points for the Lord's wargear. Sure, that's a less potent lord, but you're trading one killing machine for another.
So on turn 1, you walk the lord with the warriors, while the Tomb Spyder strikes out to get the terminators. The heavy destroyers hit the vehicles, while massed warrior fire goes toe-to-toe with the tactical squads. That's a pretty well-rounded force for 800 points, with a little of everything you need. You might consider the resurrection orb for the lord, in case the marines have a powerfist on the sergeant.
I totally agree to avoid focusing on Terminators, hence my search for mobility. Since this is the plan, should I not spare points on the Lord gear (ie ditch the scythe, phylactery, etc) ? And Can he WBB despite being hit from power weapons ?
I like the idea of scarabs that will work fine against troops and a tank, but I expect more resistance from a dreadnought :/
My main fear with your list is that I have no means of keeping termies at distance once the Deep Strike, and even a geared lord won't do :'(
The spyer might be a very good idea. How should I play it ? Spawn only one scarab base to keep the unit T6, and maybe attach the lord when the assault comes ? I need to get back to my codex, but the spyder alone will have a hard time with termines, won't it ? Sure, each blow will hurt them, but with powerfist attacks so will I ...
Last edited by Radar; July 21st, 2009 at 14:57. Reason: Crosspost
First off, your lord is no less vulnerable to power weapons than any other Necron. To keep him alive, you'll need the resurrection orb.
You also can't attach lords, or anything else, to the spyder. It's a solitary unit (including its scarabs). And yes, only spawn one scarab base. I think they're definitely good for fighting terminators. Barring any special weapons, the spyder strikes first. On the charge, it's bound to take out SOMETHING, and again, I don't believe your opponent will have more than five terminators. With the scarab swarm, you'll have five wounds, too. Makes it a bit more fair, especially if you get the charge and knock out 1-2 of his guys. Other than strength, that will make it a statistically even fight. Ok, it's no guarantee, but at worst the spyder will hold them up a while, and is unlikely to go down without taking some of those termies with it!
This sounds just fine
I reread some rules yesterday and was wondering how assaults should be handled with the Spyder and its baby scarabs. If I understood thigs correctly, when rolling to wound, the unit is considered T6, which is very nice. However, once wounds are allocated, powerfirst generate instant deaths to the scarab base (as it is S8 against T3), leaving me with less than the forecast 5 HP (2 true wound for the spyder but only one on the scarabs). I might try to allocate powerfist wounds to the spyder and leave regular wounds to the base (the Termie sarge has only a S4 power weapon IIRC), but this will only work once.
I guess I'll try this list :
Lord with Orb (140)
2*10 warriors (360)
Tomb Spyder (55)
2 Heavy destroyers (130)
With the 115 points left, I believe I won't spend more points on the lord, so it's either warriors, scarabs or one more destroyer.
I probably will field a third destroyer and 4 scarab bases to either use as cover for the destroyers, or go tackle a marine unit. This leaves the Phase Out threshold at 6, is that enough ? If not, I can replace the extra D with 3 lousy warriors
The plan stays the same : walk the lord and warriors to engage (should I proceed until rapid fire range or is it better to stay at max range ?), shoot vehicles and then any unit with the Destroyers, while the spyder copeds with incoming termies.
This sounds far better than what I was about to do, many thanks to you
Sit and start shooting when you get to max range, and let them walk into rapid firing range.
115 points could potentially get you some nice support units. I would look into an alternate Necron unit, unfortunately Immortals aren't an option, they're a great unit for soaking damage. Or maybe some flayed ones...
Buffing up your warrior squads might not hurt, and taking a little extra toy or two on your lord (gaze of flame is nice)
With that many points you could take two more tombspyders!
A 800 point game? Let's start with what you must play, no matter what:
Lord with orb
That leaves us with 300 points to play around with. The Deceiver would be very fun, IMHO, but that may be too cheesy. Know, however, that he's the best anti-Termie unit the Necrons have, and there's very little he's bad against.
Other than that, I'd buy 2-3 Heavy Destroyers, a Spyder or two, and maybe give the lord a warscythe.
Hello again, here's a super quick battle report from yesterday's game (I do have a couple pics, but with a lousy table and unpainted figs, I'am already ashamed as is ^^)
I ran the lineup I finally chose, and he fielded one Predator (Twin lasers and Heavy Bolters), 2 squads of scouts with sniper rifles and 1 missle launcher each. He also had a named Sargent that had BS6, but I forgot his name. Termies indeed DeepStruck, with assault terminators (hammer & shield) and chaplain.
He deployed as far as he could into his territory (48" from my position), while I stayed as close as possible while maintaining cover (because of the launchers & predator).
Turn 1 - SM
Mouvement : absolutely nothing
Shooting phase : shot 1 warrior down with a launcher
Assault : obviously nothing
Turn 1 - Necron
Mouvement : turboboosted scarabs, sprinted warriors towards hirs lines, and moved heaby Ds into firing range
Shooting phase : Heavy Ds shot predator, nothing happens :'(
Assault : I spawned a scarab base with my spyder rolling a 1, losing 1 HP ...
Turn 2 - SM
No termies this round
Mouvement : none
Shooting ; there again, scouts + launchers on my troops, all saved. Predator on Heavy Ds, nothing
Assault : /
Turn 2 - Necron
Mouvement : scarabs were not within assault range, so had to turboboost them 18" to keep the cover bonus. Marched 1st unit of necrons into 24" of his 2nd troop and rushed the other one (I have 4 difficult terrain to cross between us)
Shooting phase : a penetrating hit on the predator, Immobilised
Assault : /
Turn 3 - SM
Mouvement : guess what, none but Termies were still no-show
Shooting : 1-2 warriors downed by both his squads, and 1 Heavy D by the predator
Assault : /
Turn 3 - Necron
Mouvement : moved my 2nd warrior unit closer to his lines. Moved the Ds to the side of the tank to prevent one of his bolter to shoot at me
Shooting : Penetrating hit on the predator, weapon destroyed. I of course went for the laser turret. Shot with my warriors, 2 scouts down
Assault : assaulted his 2nd unit with my scarabs. Killed 1 scout and lost a base
Turn 4 - SM
Termies finally join the party, in the middle of the table (he was really scared of deep strike mishaps)
Mouvement : sprinted his termies towards my lord a my shooting warrior unit
Assault : /
Turn 4 - Necrons
Mouvement : Spyder towards the termies, and my 2nd warrior unit towards the termies as a meat shield. There would not make it to firing range in time anyway.
Shooting : 2 glancing hits on the predator, rolled 1&2 ... No casulalties on the scouts either
Assault : scarabs wiped out (all 3 bases)
Turn 5 - SM
Mouvement : termies close in on my warriors
Shooting : pretty much nothing, the chaplain missed all his shots to wound
Assault : termies assault my 2nd unit, and wipe them all
Turn 5 - Necron
Half of my barrior WBB in my other unit
Mouvement : spyder get in range, I detach the lord from its unit to keep him out of CC
Shooting : Heavy Ds do nothing to the tank, and non-engaged warriors down maybe one scout, nothing fantastic
Assault : the spyder and his base get wiped out, and I assault the termines with my warriors (nothing my I could do, at least I avoid one more attack / fig). I have major casualties (I lose the fight by 6 I guess), and fall back despite having owned one termie
Turn 6 - SM
Mouvement : consolidation move by the termies towards my remaining warrior unit
Shooting phase : nothing of rememberance
Assault phase : I kill a second termie, and my whole unit is wiped out
Turn 6 - Necron
I only have 2 D's left, lord and unit are down and cannot WBB, phase out.
Nothing went terribly wrong with the list or strategy, but I really had the feeling there was nothing I could do. On top of that, he was rather unlucky at times (his squads of scouts almost did nothing for the whole game), so he could have performed much better than that.
I could have had more luck with the predator. The scarabs were a disappointement (mabe I should not have sent 4 bases only), and I could have fielded regular destroyers had I known he was about to field scouts instead of marines.
It's just frustrating to have such limited firepower when you know your best bet is to remove as many units as possible before his elite deepstrike.
In the end I killed 3 figs and damaged the tank, when I lost HQ, troops, fast attack, spyder and one destroyer ...
Last edited by Radar; July 24th, 2009 at 15:31. Reason: typos
Scarabs are only any good en masse, you shouldn't play so few of them.
Heavy Ds should have shot the Termies from the very moment they appeared. Also, a single Spyder costs a bit more than a single Termie, so you can't expect it to do much against them.