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1850 Newbie First List

1K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  ericismyname 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm a longtime 40k player looking to start an Eldar army. Here's the basic list I've come up with:


HQ

Farseer w/spirit stones, fortune, doom, jetbike

5 Warlocks w/jetbikes, 1 embolden, 1 enhance, 3 destructors


ELITE

6 Fire Dragons w/exarch, dragon breath flamer, crack shot (ride in falcon)


TROOP

5 Pathfinder Rangers

5 Pathfinder Rangers

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, two shuriken catapults (for exarch), bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, two shuriken catapults (for exarch), bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance

6 Guardian Jetbikes w/2 shuriken cannons


HEAVY

Falcon w/holo-field, spirit stones, shuriken cannon, pulse laser

Fire Prism w/holo-field


The basic plan is for the rangers to hang back, and everything move up the field, with the more expendable units (depending on the mission and opponent) in front. How's it look?
 
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#4 ·
Thank you

Thanks for the help! That sounds like a good idea, so I've replaced the banshees with 6 fire dragons, and used the leftover points to add another ranger to the unit (to help keep them alive).

Or is there something else the points are better spent on, besides another ranger?
 
#5 ·
I'd say have the scopions outflank instead of in the wave serpant, it's not open topped so you cant asault out of it :( Maybe put the dragons in the serpant so then can more 12 and shoot, sence they don't need to asault. Sence they'd be going the the serpant more the farseer alone in the falcon, doom and guide don't "need" LoS to cast just range... sooo we can sit in his armored chariot to help whom ever needs it. Cool thing with that too... he can more 24 and still cast, sence it takes place at the beguining of the turn. Just have to think one step ahead for his casting. Only spells that need LoS are the shooting spells (Mindwar and Storm)

Hope that helps a little.

-Jen
 
#6 ·
my comments are my color

Farseer w/spirit stones, guidance, doom (ride with one of the units of dire avengers)
drop guide and the stones, it's overkill as they have a high enough BS, combined with the volley of shots and re-rolling wounds (which is the main part you want the rerolls). I'd recommend taking Runes of Warding as a defensive counter in the case you go up against psycher heavy armies.

10 Striking Scorpions w/exarch, scorpion's claw, stalker, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance
If you have the dedicated transport to them they won't be infiltrating as the transport needs to be on the board (can't infiltrate) and in that case shadowstalker is useless and should be dropped. If you wanted to infiltrate these, than you'll need to drop the serpent. If you want the serpent you'll have to re-arrange a squad to a troop than can take a transport, which would settle as one of the jetbike squads becoming DAs or a type of guardian. Either way let me know your choice and I can help tailor from there.

6 Fire Dragons (ride in falcon)
These are fine


6 Pathfinder Rangers
These are fine

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, power weapon, shimmer shield, bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance
Drop the power weapon and shimmer shield, give the exarch duel shuri-cats

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, power weapon, shimmer shield, bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance
Drop the power weapon and shimmer shield, give the exarch duel shuri-cats

6 Guardian Jetbikes w/2 splinter cannons, warlock, embolden, singing spear
Are you including the warlock in the 6? Or would that make 7?

6 Guardian Jetbikes w/2 splinter cannons, warlock, embolden, singing spear
Are you including the warlock in the 6? Or would that make 7?

HEAVY

Falcon w/holo-field, spirit stones
This has to take a weapon, and since you've got the right idea (with nothing) the best upgrade to this is a shruiken cannon, it's the cheapest weapon to add, and since you should be moving fairly quickly to get the Dragons as close to their targets as possible to get it down faster, you'll only be able to shoot the pulse laser anyways (combi'd with the T-L shuri-cats on bottom but who's counting ;))
 
#7 ·
Really?

I thought the falcon could just take the pulse laser and twin linked shuriken cannons. Does it really need an upgrade after that? If so, then I'm definitely taking the cheapest option.

There's no way I'd drop the power weapon from the dire avengers. I need an edge against terminators and assault marines. It might come from playing Orks, but I'm just not comfortable unless I have at least one power weapon or fist in each squad.

Does the warlock count towards the 'one cannon for every 3 bikes' rule? If yes, then it is indeed 6. If they don't, I have to redo things, because 7 bikes is a weird number. I'd probably try and find a way to make it 9, or cut them down to 5.

I had no intention of infiltrating the scorpions. They'd be completely useless if they came out on a side that had nothing to assault. They're just good all round troops with good close combat ability, assault grenades, and a ton of attacks. I don't want to rely completely on dire avengers, since they can't use bladestorm if their target is already in close combat. Hence the scorpions. Banshees just seem to draw too much fire, and harley's run on foot. The scorpions seemed like a nice compromise. Although I could be wrong. What do you think?

No guidance? I honestly like guidance just as much as doom. It makes a 'good' bladestorm absolutely ridiculous. Doom is indeed better, but I liked the idea of having both. Is fortune better, or another power? Is doom alone really enough?

Thanks for all the help! ^_^
 
#9 ·
my comments are my color

I thought the falcon could just take the pulse laser and twin linked shuriken cannons. Does it really need an upgrade after that? If so, then I'm definitely taking the cheapest option.
yea, shuri-cannon is the cheapest option

There's no way I'd drop the power weapon from the dire avengers. I need an edge against terminators and assault marines. It might come from playing Orks, but I'm just not comfortable unless I have at least one power weapon or fist in each squad.
Think about it though as if you were playing a game, against terminators you're going to get wrecked either way. The DAs should never be assaulting terminators, and if they get assaulted, kiss it good by either way. You need 5's to wound and you dont have enough attacks to counterbalance that to make it count. This is where your fire dragons come in handy, they should be the ones who go against a squad of terminators. Keep the DAs to units that they can better handle.

Does the warlock count towards the 'one cannon for every 3 bikes' rule? If yes, then it is indeed 6. If they don't, I have to redo things, because 7 bikes is a weird number. I'd probably try and find a way to make it 9, or cut them down to 5.
Yes it counts. I was just making sure because you had them all on one line.

I had no intention of infiltrating the scorpions. They'd be completely useless if they came out on a side that had nothing to assault. They're just good all round troops with good close combat ability, assault grenades, and a ton of attacks. I don't want to rely completely on dire avengers, since they can't use bladestorm if their target is already in close combat. Hence the scorpions. Banshees just seem to draw too much fire, and harley's run on foot. The scorpions seemed like a nice compromise. Although I could be wrong. What do you think?
Than shadow-strike should be dropped from the exarch.

No guidance? I honestly like guidance just as much as doom. It makes a 'good' bladestorm absolutely ridiculous. Doom is indeed better, but I liked the idea of having both. Is fortune better, or another power? Is doom alone really enough?
I'll just go by 50% averages:
33 Shots bladestormed into a squad of Space Marines;
(guided/doomed) Hit: 22, after reroll, (29). Wound: 15, after reroll, (22). Saves: (15), 7 die.
(doomed) Hit: (22). Wound: 11, after reroll, (17). Saves: (11), 6 die.
That's going by the medium averages, not tanking into account any tangents to roll a little better or worse. In your opinion is the point cost for spirit stones and guide worth that 1 extra kill by statistic averages?
 
#8 · (Edited)
I like the list. Personally I don't give my DAs the powerweapon shimmershield unless I'm planning on getting defend also. Either find points for defend or switch over to the dual cats like Emp suggested for extra shots.

I would think about either dropping the guide and stones ( guided blade storms are nice but you are paying alot for only a few more hits )or switch guide for fortune. Rerolling saves for the scorpions will make them very tough against anything short of massed powerweapons. Rerolling saves on DAs with shimmershields make them ok as a tarpit also. I would also pick up the runes of warding, cheap and painful for any psykers you end up facing.

The warlock does not count toward the number needed for the shuriken cannon. I personally prefer the 6/2 cannons and a warlock unit. Which is what I thought you had taken. And yes the falcon must take a weapon.
 
#13 ·
Now personally in terms of guide usage, i VERY seldom ever guide anything with a BS of 4. The pay off just isn't very good, but I find that guide doom combos is very effective with a stack of guardians. I realize that there aren't many people who like guardians, but when you get a single unit killing complete mobs of boys in one round of shooting, you are doing something right. Being as there isn't very much in your list that has a BS 3 that isn't TL guide may not serve you as well. I had assumed that guide was for the falcons shots. Don't listen too closely to what everyone says imo, half the fun in playing eldar is watching everything go so HORRIBLY wrong the first couple games anyway ;)
 
#14 ·
Hmm...

Thanks for the help everyone!

I may have mentioned it before, but I prefer the scorpions in the wave serpent, but fortune is looking like a much better option than guide, for this list.

War walkers just didn't seem very cost effective to me. There just seem to be easier and more cost effective ways of getting powerful shooting into the list. In every game I've seen, they always seem to immediately draw a lot of fire, and then die right away (or as soon as they arrive, if they're outflanking).

I don't really want to spam skimmers, so I don't think I'll use fire prisms.

I like the idea of dropping the warlock out of one of the units, and making the other unit a unit of warlocks on bikes, although I'd need another troop unit to replace them, as I always try to use at least 5 in every list.

I'm going to give the list some thought, and redo it slightly. Thanks for the help everyone!
 
#15 ·
Its all about position, position. War Walkers should make their points back, but they can also be used as a stable firebase. 180 points for 24 S6 AP6 shots. Fortune 'em, and most are hitting...that's fairly deadly, and likely to wipe out a squad. They're not the be-all and end-all, but War Walkers are the cheapest weapons platform we get. Hell, they're even cheaper then a guardian squad with a single HWP.

Ultimately it all comes down to the list surrounding my war walkers. If I've got two fire prisms and two wave serpents, my enemy has bigger concerns then a squad of war walkers. They're cheap cheap cheap and they're a threat. They won't work in EVERY list (far from it), but I would not discount them completely. :)
 
#16 ·
Hmm...

Do you mean 'guidance'? You said fortune, but I'm pretty sure you meant guide. Just checking though.

If I do use them, I think I'd give them shuriken catapults. They don't shoot as many shots as scatter lasers, but I think of it this way: 120 points for 18 shots, or 180 points for 24 shots. It's a 50% increase in cost for a 33% boost in firepower. It does have better range, but I think I'd rather keep them cheap, if I do use them.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Huh?

Wraithlords? Aren't they a little slow for the list? If it's heavy weapons I need, then I'd rather go with war walkers, to help get back armor. I like wraithlords, but I thought they'd be more useful in a footslogging army, to lead the charge.

I'm going to double check the points, and see if there's a way to squeeze in the war walkers.

Besides that, how's it look? Are the striking scorpions viable? I need something that can at the very least hold hordes in place during the assault. I could also drop them and a unit of bikes, and add some close combat focused dire avengers.

EDIT

I've decided to drop the striking scorpions and take some close combat focused dire avengers instead. I figure the striking scorpions are best used as outflankers, rather than front line troops. I dropped a unit of guardian jetbikes as well.

I think I mixed up the points somewhere, because I realized that I have more points than I thought (I may have been counting the falcon twice). So with the dropped guardian jetbikes, I have enough points for one of the following:

1. A unit of warlocks on jetbikes with singing spears and various powers. They're for helping in close combat, bringing templates to where they're needed, and dealing with tough vehicles. If the enemy has a lot of long range weapons, I might start them in reserve, and have them supercharge and get fortuned the turn they come in.

2. I could also use a unit of shining spears and warwalkers instead, for about the same points.

Which would be better? For now, I'll put in the warlocks. Thanks for the help everyone!
 
#19 ·
I'm a longtime 40k player looking to start an Eldar army. Here's the basic list I've come up with:


HQ

Farseer w/spirit stones, fortune, doom, singing spear (with one of the 'bladestorm' dire avenger units)He has to have a jetbike and and be with his retinue or warlocks. He cant split from them like other units. To get the points id downgrade a BL to something else.

5 Warlocks w/jetbikes, 1 embolden, 1 enhance, 3 destructors, singing spears


ELITE

6 Fire Dragons (ride in falcon)


TROOP

5 Pathfinder Rangers

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, power weapon, shimmershield, defend, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright LanceI have tried this before, while they are okay in combat. They dont usually come out ahead, but they do manage to tie up units for a long time. When i use them like this , it is to help support other units, like banshees or scorps. But then again ive found that storm guardians are just as effective (with warlock) at this and are a hair cheaper.

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, two shuriken catapults (for exarch), bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, two shuriken catapults (for exarch), bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance

6 Guardian Jetbikes w/2 splinter cannonsSPLINTER?? u mean shuriken :p.

HEAVY

Falcon w/holo-field, spirit stones, shuriken cannon, pulse laser




The basic plan is for the rangers to hang back, and everything move up the field, with the more expendable units (depending on the mission and opponent) in front. How's it look?
You may be able to make the jetbike unit smaller because mainly they are only good for hitting rear armor of tanks (rare) and last minute objective grabbing. I would def find the points for at least 1 prism.
 
#20 ·
Waving the white flag

Alright, alright, I'll add a fire prism! ^_^

I don't want more than 4 skimmers though, or else it just feels like spam.

I didn't realize that the warlocks had to be a retinue for the farseer (thanks for the heads up), so I gave him a bike.

To make up the points for that and the fire prism, I replaced the close combat focused dire avengers with another unit of rangers.

How's it look now? Again, thanks for all the help everyone!
 
#21 ·
I'm a longtime 40k player looking to start an Eldar army. Here's the basic list I've come up with:


HQ

Farseer w/spirit stones, fortune, doom, singing spear, jetbike, drop this spear. +3

5 Warlocks w/jetbikes, 1 embolden, 1 enhance, 3 destructors, singing spearsI would drop all spears. +15 if you dont want to, drop spears to t he lock sthat have destructer. +9


ELITE

6 Fire Dragons (ride in falcon)


TROOP

5 Pathfinder Rangers

5 Pathfinder Rangers

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, two shuriken catapults (for exarch), bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance

10 Dire Avengers w/exarch, two shuriken catapults (for exarch), bladestorm, in a wave serpent w/spirit stones, TL Bright Lance

6 Guardian Jetbikes w/2 shuriken cannons


HEAVY

Falcon w/holo-field, spirit stones, shuriken cannon, pulse laser

Fire Prism w/holo-fieldDrop this. if you dropped allt he spears you can add a warlock witha power, if you didnt drop em all you could add a warlock and ALMOST embolden:)


The basic plan is for the rangers to hang back, and everything move up the field, with the more expendable units (depending on the mission and opponent) in front. How's it look?
good luck
 
#22 · (Edited)
Wha?

Drop the spears? Warlocks don't seem even close to worth it unless they have them. For virtually no cost, it allows them to wound on 2+ and take out even the most heavily armored vehicles. Without them, they're barely better than normal jetbikes, at twice the cost.

I can't see dropping the spears. If anything I'd drop the warlocks. What do you use the warlocks for, if not the singing spears? The templates alone don't seem nearly worth it, considering their cost.

Also, if I dropped the spears, I'd need to add another unit that can hurt armor, and to make up the points, I'd have to cut the warlocks.
 
#23 ·
Spears give you a ranged attack but at the same time they remove the extra CC attack the model would get. If the unit is going to see much melee having a spear actually becomes a disadvantage. For tank busting I like them others will simply say kill tanks by assaulting.

As far as I am aware the warlock unit is not a retinue, it is a unit that can only be taken if you have a farseer but it is never noted that they have to stay together.
 
#25 ·
Spears give you a ranged attack but at the same time they remove the extra CC attack the model would get. If the unit is going to see much melee having a spear actually becomes a disadvantage. For tank busting I like them others will simply say kill tanks by assaulting.

As far as I am aware the warlock unit is not a retinue, it is a unit that can only be taken if you have a farseer but it is never noted that they have to stay together.
It doesnt say it is a retinue, however they count as a single HQ choice, I think this would signify that they are 1 unit and the warlock is his bodyguard (retinue). Ive never seen anyone have a unit of just warlocks running around either in person on here on the boards.
 
#24 ·
Oops

Oh! Sorry about that. I re-read the codex and see what you mean. I first thought that the only way to get the 2+ to wound and s9 vs vehicles was with the singing spears. If not, then I'll drop them. I don't think I'd want to drop the holo-field though. I've fought against them enough times to know how effective they can be.

I'll re-check the list and see what I can do with the points.

Thanks everyone!
 
#26 ·
I agree that you will almost always see a farseer in with the warlocks but they are not his retinue this makes a very big difference as he can be picked out for powerfist models in melee. Units are normally not a retinue that means unless the codex states they are a retinue they are not. I really wish it was different so my farseers would be safely hidden but it is not the case. Although having the option to split my farseer to valiantly charge off on his own has come in handy from time to time.

As for them counting as 1 HQ choice that doesn't mean they are one unit. Tyranids, IG, Tau, DH, and I believe WH also have choices that are several units in 1 FoC.
 
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