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    Member Kardea's Avatar
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    Tau vs. Ravenwing or IG Heavy Weapons Army

    Hokay, so:
    I've got a tournament game today. Probably will be objectives (possible kill points). 1750 points. Though there a number of opponents I could end up fighting, due to past matchups and the current scheduling style, I'm most likely to go up against Ravenwing SM (the current tourny leader by a crap-ton of points) or an Imperial Guard army set up to be massive amounts of heavy weapons with enough models to absorb huge amounts of punishment (the guy playing the IG has a near-infinite budget and usually plays money-is-no-object armies). The Ravenwing player, as mentioned, is very good and has thus far massacred every single opponent in the tournament. He's garunteed the 1st-place spot in this tournament already, but I'm high enough in the standings that, if I can hold him to a standstill or better, I could place 2nd or 3rd, myself (discounting any disastrous subsequent games). The IG player is also very, very good but is newish to IG and is slightly inconsistent. Finally, my 3rd possibility for an opponent (at least, one I'll likely face) is an Eldar player that invariably chooses Seer Council on bikes, Prisms, and assorted armor, plus Maugan-Ra.

    My question for you learned minds is thus: Can I haz tactica 4 winz, plox? I've played Tau for years, but have never once gone up against Ravenwing, so I'm not familiar with their tactics, capabilities, and tricks. Also, now that the IG outshoot us, I'm a bit worried about going up against an IG army dedicated to doing precisely that. What do you folks think? My army list is as follows (formatted as an Army Builder text summary:

    HQ: Commander Shadowsun (175 Pts)
    1 Commander Shadowsun
    Two Fusion Blasters; Multi-Tracker; Advanced Target Lock; Bonding Knife; Drone Controller
    1 Command-link Drone
    2 Shield Drones
    Shield Generator (x2)

    HQ: Commander Shas'el (5#, 309 Pts)
    1 Commander Shas'el
    Cyclic Ion Blaster; Hard-wired Drone Controller; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Stimulant Injector; Crisis Bodyguard; Crisis Bodyguard; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Plasma Rifle; Targeting Array
    1 Crisis Bodyguard
    Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Targeting Array
    1 Crisis Bodyguard
    Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Target Lock
    1 Shield Drone
    Shield Generator
    1 Shield Drone
    Shield Generator

    Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 180 Pts)
    1 Hammerhead Gunship
    Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Targeting Array; Disruption Pod; Flechette Discharger; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock

    Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 180 Pts)
    1 Hammerhead Gunship
    Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Targeting Array; Disruption Pod; Flechette Discharger; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock

    Troops: Fire Warrior (12#, 135 Pts)
    11 Fire Warrior
    Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x11)
    1 Shas'ui
    Bonding Knife; Pulse Rifle

    Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 60 Pts)
    6 Fire Warrior
    Pulse Carbine (x2); Pulse Rifle (x4)

    Fast Attack: Pathfinder (9#, 187 Pts)
    5 Pathfinder
    Add Shas'ui; Markerlight (x5); Pulse Carbine (x5)
    1 Shas'ui
    Bonding Knife; Hard-wired Target Lock; Markerlight; Pulse Carbine
    1 Devilfish
    Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Marker Beacon; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker
    2 Gun Drones
    Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

    Elite: Stealthsuits (4#, 137 Pts)
    3 Stealthsuits
    Add Team Leader; Burst Cannon (x3)
    1 Team Leader
    Bonding Knife; Fusion Blaster; Hard-wired Target Lock

    Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (2#, 96 Pts)
    2 Crisis Battlesuit
    Twin Linked Missile Pod; Targeting Array

    Heavy Support: Sniper Drone Team (8#, 160 Pts)
    1 Sniper Drone Team
    Drone Controller; Networked Markerlight; Pulse Pistol; Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array; Sniper Drone Team
    3 Sniper Drones
    Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
    1 Sniper Drone Team
    Drone Controller; Networked Markerlight; Pulse Pistol; Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
    3 Sniper Drones
    Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array

    Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (10#, 70 Pts)
    10 Kroot Carnivore Squad
    Kroot Rifle (x10)

    Fast Attack: Gun Drone Squadron (5#, 60 Pts)
    5 Gun Drone Squadron
    Twin Linked Pulse Carbines (x5)

    Total Roster Cost: 1749

    Yes, I know it's not the most conventional list, but it's proven to be effective in the past. Also, yes, I know that Shadowsun is in there, but she's actually a deep-striking monster (go-go-gadget-Pathfinder Devilfish Reroll). And yes, those 6 Fire Warriors do get in the Pathfinder Fish first turn and stay there as an objective holder the whole game unless they absolutely must hop out. So yeah, again, it's not conventional, but I'm not pigheaded, so critique away, and please, oh, please provide me with some pointers for my likely opponents.

    Last edited by Kardea; October 7th, 2009 at 16:38. Reason: Removed points costs other than full-unit cost. It was probably ok, but I don't want to get reprimanded.

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  3. #2
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardea View Post
    Hokay, so:
    I've got a tournament game today. Probably will be objectives (possible kill points). 1750 points. Though there a number of opponents I could end up fighting, due to past matchups and the current scheduling style, I'm most likely to go up against Ravenwing SM (the current tourny leader by a crap-ton of points) or an Imperial Guard army set up to be massive amounts of heavy weapons with enough models to absorb huge amounts of punishment (the guy playing the IG has a near-infinite budget and usually plays money-is-no-object armies). The Ravenwing player, as mentioned, is very good and has thus far massacred every single opponent in the tournament. He's garunteed the 1st-place spot in this tournament already, but I'm high enough in the standings that, if I can hold him to a standstill or better, I could place 2nd or 3rd, myself (discounting any disastrous subsequent games). The IG player is also very, very good but is newish to IG and is slightly inconsistent. Finally, my 3rd possibility for an opponent (at least, one I'll likely face) is an Eldar player that invariably chooses Seer Council on bikes, Prisms, and assorted armor, plus Maugan-Ra.

    My question for you learned minds is thus: Can I haz tactica 4 winz, plox? I've played Tau for years, but have never once gone up against Ravenwing, so I'm not familiar with their tactics, capabilities, and tricks. Also, now that the IG outshoot us, I'm a bit worried about going up against an IG army dedicated to doing precisely that. What do you folks think? My army list is as follows (formatted as an Army Builder text summary:

    HQ: Commander Shadowsun (175 Pts)
    1 Commander Shadowsun
    Two Fusion Blasters; Multi-Tracker; Advanced Target Lock; Bonding Knife; Drone Controller
    1 Command-link Drone
    2 Shield Drones
    Shield Generator (x2)

    HQ: Commander Shas'el (5#, 309 Pts)
    1 Commander Shas'el
    Cyclic Ion Blaster; Hard-wired Drone Controller; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Stimulant Injector; Crisis Bodyguard; Crisis Bodyguard; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Plasma Rifle; Targeting Array
    1 Crisis Bodyguard
    Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Targeting Array
    1 Crisis Bodyguard
    Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Target Lock
    1 Shield Drone
    Shield Generator
    1 Shield Drone
    Shield Generator

    Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 180 Pts)
    1 Hammerhead Gunship
    Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Targeting Array; Disruption Pod; Flechette Discharger; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock

    Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 180 Pts)
    1 Hammerhead Gunship
    Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Targeting Array; Disruption Pod; Flechette Discharger; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock

    Troops: Fire Warrior (12#, 135 Pts)
    11 Fire Warrior
    Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x11)
    1 Shas'ui
    Bonding Knife; Pulse Rifle

    Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 60 Pts)
    6 Fire Warrior
    Pulse Carbine (x2); Pulse Rifle (x4)

    Fast Attack: Pathfinder (9#, 187 Pts)
    5 Pathfinder
    Add Shas'ui; Markerlight (x5); Pulse Carbine (x5)
    1 Shas'ui
    Bonding Knife; Hard-wired Target Lock; Markerlight; Pulse Carbine
    1 Devilfish
    Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Marker Beacon; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker
    2 Gun Drones
    Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

    Elite: Stealthsuits (4#, 137 Pts)
    3 Stealthsuits
    Add Team Leader; Burst Cannon (x3)
    1 Team Leader
    Bonding Knife; Fusion Blaster; Hard-wired Target Lock

    Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (2#, 96 Pts)
    2 Crisis Battlesuit
    Twin Linked Missile Pod; Targeting Array

    Heavy Support: Sniper Drone Team (8#, 160 Pts)
    1 Sniper Drone Team
    Drone Controller; Networked Markerlight; Pulse Pistol; Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array; Sniper Drone Team
    3 Sniper Drones
    Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
    1 Sniper Drone Team
    Drone Controller; Networked Markerlight; Pulse Pistol; Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
    3 Sniper Drones
    Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array

    Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (10#, 70 Pts)
    10 Kroot Carnivore Squad
    Kroot Rifle (x10)

    Fast Attack: Gun Drone Squadron (5#, 60 Pts)
    5 Gun Drone Squadron
    Twin Linked Pulse Carbines (x5)

    Total Roster Cost: 1749

    Yes, I know it's not the most conventional list, but it's proven to be effective in the past. Also, yes, I know that Shadowsun is in there, but she's actually a deep-striking monster (go-go-gadget-Pathfinder Devilfish Reroll). And yes, those 6 Fire Warriors do get in the Pathfinder Fish first turn and stay there as an objective holder the whole game unless they absolutely must hop out. So yeah, again, it's not conventional, but I'm not pigheaded, so critique away, and please, oh, please provide me with some pointers for my likely opponents.
    Damn thats a confusing list layout. I have no idea what the Shas'El and Bodyguards are supposed to be equipped with. Can you simplify the layout along these lines

    Shas'El
    Missile Pod, Plasma, HW multi, Targeting array 97pts

    Bodyguard
    Missile pod, Plasma, HW multi, Targeting array 77pts

    This makes it a lot easier to read because I can not make head nor tail of it as it stands. For instance does your Shas'El only have a CIB? if so why has he got a HW multi?
    1984

  4. #3
    Member Kardea's Avatar
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    My Shas'El has a Plasma Rifle as well. I must have misclicked and deleted it when I was copy/pasting. Other than that, I have no idea what you're talkin' about, Riki, 'cause it lays out precisely what each model has, even going overkill and listing things that are default, as well.

  5. #4
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    You list just doesn't have enough firepower to win competitive games against strong enemies.

    Shadowsun is cute but, ultimately, way too expensive for what she brings to table. You don't want to sacrifice her by killing armour. Surely she gets killed the instant you get her in range just like any other melta delivery unit would if they were, say, IG vets, or Tac Marines, or Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, or.... And if you're not slagging armour the fusion blasters aren't giving you enough firepower to do much against infantry either. Two shots is not enough. She's just too expensive for the LD bubble as well. You can get a lot more offense in your list, and that is points better spent.

    Your stealths are not a good unit either. Firstly, they are purely anti-infantry. A single BS 3 melta gun for more than 130 pts is not points well spent, and definitely not reliable enough to be worth the investment. Replace your stealths with a real anti-armour option: deathrain crisis suits. Saves you a whole mess of points, too. Or one better: take a pair of fireknife crisis for 124 pts and still have a few more points share around elsewhere in the bargain. They will be more reliable tackling armour AND killing infantry than your stealths. (They have more shots, at a higher strength and lower AP, not to mention more wounds and even superior close combat ability, and all for fewer points! There's just no comparison.)

    You need more crisis suits anyway. Crisis suits are where ALL of the Tau army's heavy weaponry resides that isn't a railgun. Not maxing out on that is to cut the effectiveness of your army by many orders of magnitude. And in that vein, you shouldn't mess with bodyguards for your commanders. Just buy more suits in general. More guns is always superior to fewer guns, no matter what the BS. Ask any Orks or IG player and they'll tell you the same thing.

    Snipers were great 4th edition units but they have no place in 5th edition. Drop them like a hot potato and replace with broadsides. You really need at least one pair of broadsides to anchor your heavy support. Reliable insta-killing shots work wonders against elite MEQ armies like bike armies (like DA Raven-/Deathwing).

    Your gun drones aren't helping you out either. Just use the drones off your devilfish. Spend those points elsewhere.

    You need specific tactics less than you need a list that is flexible of tackling anybody. Beef up your offense first, then talk tactics after. You can't expect great things from inferior units and unit builds.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  6. #5
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    Very hard to read mate.

    Some of the stuff looks real odd, like taking 2 pulse carbines in a firewarrior squad.

    You have plenty of suits for competitive play. But you seem to have taken a lot of upgrades.

    If you could please reformat your lists into something a bit easier to read I could have more comments.
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    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardea View Post
    even going overkill and listing things that are default, as well.
    Exactly making it very hard to understand what the layout of each unit is. I am only trying to help you get more out of the post. This is my 2000pt list layout, see how much easier it is to read than yours.

    HQ
    Shas'El
    Plasma, Missile Pod, Targeting array, HW multi tracker, HW Target lock, HW BSF, HW Drone controller, Marker Drone 135pts

    Shas'El
    Plasma, Fusion blaster, Targeting array, HW multi tracker 97pts

    Elites
    Deathrain squad
    2 X XV8 with twin linked Missile Pod, Targeting array
    106pts

    Deathrain squad
    2 X XV8 with twin linked Missile Pod, Targeting array
    106pts

    Torch squad
    1 x team leader with twin linked Flamer, Missile pod, HW Multi, HW Drone controller and 2 Gun Drones, BK
    2 x XV8's with twin linked Flamers, Missile Pod
    164pts

    Troops
    9 Fire Warriors one upgraded to Shas'Ui with Bonding Knife (will use Pathfinders Devilfish)
    105pts

    9 Fire Warriors one upgraded to Shas'Ui with Bonding Knife (will use Pathfinders Devilfish)
    105pts

    10 Kroot and 6 Kroot hounds
    106pts

    10 Kroot and 6 Kroot hounds
    106pts

    Fast attack
    5 Pathfinders
    60pts

    Devilfish with Disruption Pod, flechettes and multi
    105pts

    5 Pathfinders
    60pts

    Devilfish with Disruption Pod, flechettes and multi
    105pts

    2 x Piranha with Fusion, TA and DP’s 150pts

    Heavy support
    Hammerhead
    Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi tracker and Disruption Pod
    165pts

    Hammerhead
    Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi tracker and Disruption Pod
    165pts

    Skyray
    Burst cannons, Targeting array, Multi tracker and Disruption Pod, Blacksun filter
    160pts

    2000pts
    1984

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardea View Post
    Hokay, so:
    I've got a tournament game today. Probably will be objectives (possible kill points). 1750 points. Though there a number of opponents I could end up fighting, due to past matchups and the current scheduling style, I'm most likely to go up against Ravenwing SM (the current tourny leader by a crap-ton of points) or an Imperial Guard army set up to be massive amounts of heavy weapons with enough models to absorb huge amounts of punishment (the guy playing the IG has a near-infinite budget and usually plays money-is-no-object armies). The Ravenwing player, as mentioned, is very good and has thus far massacred every single opponent in the tournament. He's garunteed the 1st-place spot in this tournament already, but I'm high enough in the standings that, if I can hold him to a standstill or better, I could place 2nd or 3rd, myself (discounting any disastrous subsequent games). The IG player is also very, very good but is newish to IG and is slightly inconsistent. Finally, my 3rd possibility for an opponent (at least, one I'll likely face) is an Eldar player that invariably chooses Seer Council on bikes, Prisms, and assorted armor, plus Maugan-Ra.

    My question for you learned minds is thus: Can I haz tactica 4 winz, plox? I've played Tau for years, but have never once gone up against Ravenwing, so I'm not familiar with their tactics, capabilities, and tricks. Also, now that the IG outshoot us, I'm a bit worried about going up against an IG army dedicated to doing precisely that. What do you folks think? My army list is as follows (formatted as an Army Builder text summary:

    HQ: Commander Shadowsun (175 Pts)
    1 Commander Shadowsun
    Two Fusion Blasters; Multi-Tracker; Advanced Target Lock; Bonding Knife; Drone Controller
    1 Command-link Drone
    2 Shield Drones
    Shield Generator (x2)

    HQ: Commander Shas'el (5#, 309 Pts)
    1 Commander Shas'el
    Cyclic Ion Blaster; Hard-wired Drone Controller; Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Stimulant Injector; Crisis Bodyguard; Crisis Bodyguard; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Plasma Rifle; Targeting Array
    1 Crisis Bodyguard
    Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Hard-wired Target Lock; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Targeting Array
    1 Crisis Bodyguard
    Hard-wired Multi-tracker; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Target Lock
    1 Shield Drone
    Shield Generator
    1 Shield Drone
    Shield Generator

    Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 180 Pts)
    1 Hammerhead Gunship
    Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Targeting Array; Disruption Pod; Flechette Discharger; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock

    Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 180 Pts)
    1 Hammerhead Gunship
    Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Targeting Array; Disruption Pod; Flechette Discharger; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Target Lock

    Troops: Fire Warrior (12#, 135 Pts)
    11 Fire Warrior
    Add Shas'ui; Pulse Rifle (x11)
    1 Shas'ui
    Bonding Knife; Pulse Rifle

    Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 60 Pts)
    6 Fire Warrior
    Pulse Carbine (x2); Pulse Rifle (x4)

    Fast Attack: Pathfinder (9#, 187 Pts)
    5 Pathfinder
    Add Shas'ui; Markerlight (x5); Pulse Carbine (x5)
    1 Shas'ui
    Bonding Knife; Hard-wired Target Lock; Markerlight; Pulse Carbine
    1 Devilfish
    Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Marker Beacon; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker
    2 Gun Drones
    Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

    Elite: Stealthsuits (4#, 137 Pts)
    3 Stealthsuits
    Add Team Leader; Burst Cannon (x3)
    1 Team Leader
    Bonding Knife; Fusion Blaster; Hard-wired Target Lock

    Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (2#, 96 Pts)
    2 Crisis Battlesuit
    Twin Linked Missile Pod; Targeting Array

    Heavy Support: Sniper Drone Team (8#, 160 Pts)
    1 Sniper Drone Team
    Drone Controller; Networked Markerlight; Pulse Pistol; Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array; Sniper Drone Team
    3 Sniper Drones
    Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
    1 Sniper Drone Team
    Drone Controller; Networked Markerlight; Pulse Pistol; Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array
    3 Sniper Drones
    Rail Rifle and Target Lock (x3); Stealth Field Generator; Targeting Array

    Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (10#, 70 Pts)
    10 Kroot Carnivore Squad
    Kroot Rifle (x10)

    Fast Attack: Gun Drone Squadron (5#, 60 Pts)
    5 Gun Drone Squadron
    Twin Linked Pulse Carbines (x5)

    Total Roster Cost: 1749

    Yes, I know it's not the most conventional list, but it's proven to be effective in the past. Also, yes, I know that Shadowsun is in there, but she's actually a deep-striking monster (go-go-gadget-Pathfinder Devilfish Reroll). And yes, those 6 Fire Warriors do get in the Pathfinder Fish first turn and stay there as an objective holder the whole game unless they absolutely must hop out. So yeah, again, it's not conventional, but I'm not pigheaded, so critique away, and please, oh, please provide me with some pointers for my likely opponents.

    Let's start with a basic guideline, shall we?

    1. DROP ALL TARGET LOCKS! : Pouring fire into one target, is far more dustructive than splitting your fire against two or more targets. As for vehicles, having them fire ALL weapons at DIFFERENT targets is entertaining, but not needed.


    2.HQ- Shas'el with a TA, MP, PR, and HW MT for your HQ choices. One of these, in each HQ slot, is really all you need.


    3. E - A stealth team of 4, with their BCs. Don't take a fusion blaster, as you step to 12inches, anyone can 'see' and 'shoot' at you. With Railheads and Broadsides, you shouldn't need FBs on your suits.

    Just get your stealths, in a cozy position, and widdle away at squads. BCs are great against bikers, imho.

    I like the deathrain setup, but you should fill your third elite slot too. Take a crisis team with twin-linked flamers. Great against any squad thinking they're safe in cover ;D


    4. T - Take two teams of 8 fire warriors each, a team leader with bonding knife, and the whole team having pulse rifles. Each team also has a devilfish with BC , GDs, MT, and DP. Keep them in the transports, until ALL anti-troop squads are gone. With the new 5th rules, transports are pretty uber, not to mention most of the IG's weapons won't hurt a devilfish with a DP.

    I'd also take two squads of 10 kroot /10 hounds. They're great for tieing up assault units ( like bikers ), and more-than-a-handful for IG in cc.


    5. FA - Take two teams of 8 pathfinders ( none of that UI and junk ), and place a DP on their devilfish. I don't see a need for a MT, since moving the pathfinders with make their markerlights useless.

    In larger games, such as your 1750pt one, gun drone squads become easy 'kill points'. Unless you can put them a cozy spot to redirect your opponent's movements, and the squad is a full 8, they are useless in my opinion.


    6. HS - Taking 2 HH is a good idea. Having 2 BCs, railgun, DP, and MT, cheap them both cheap and 'priceless' to use. Just remember that submission, and you'll be blowing holes in both the IG and RW battleplans.

    As for a third choice, there is a better option than the sniper drone 'sinkhole'. Take a team of 3 broadsides with the A.S.Systems, a team leader with a bonding knife and a HW DC with 2 shield drones. Having 3 twin-linked S10 shots, the ability to 'move and fire', and the extra protection of the shield drones, will make your opponents 'see red'!


    With any points remaining, you can go back and fill up your force. Here, you may want to add bodyguards to your commanders, or add more memebers to different teams.



    I hope you gathered something from my ramblings





    *Remember to 'tank'shock' various foot-slogging troops, vehicles AV 12 and under, and IG walkers!*

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