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Thread: 1000 points DE

  1. #1
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    1000 points DE

    Okay it's currently between marines and DE for my new army. Leaning towards here.

    Possibly will have a converted archon to display tomorrow 1000 point list i'm aiming for consists of;

    HQ

    Archon
    Agoniser
    CCW
    Combat Drug dispenser
    Trophy Rack


    5 Incubi Retinue
    Punishers

    Raider
    Horrorfex
    Nightshields


    Troops

    Raider squad x 10
    Splinter cannon
    Raider
    Horrorfex


    Raider squad x 9

    Splinter cannon
    Raider
    Horrorfex


    Raider squad x 9
    Splinter cannon
    Raider
    Horrorfex

    Fast Attack

    Reaver jetbike squad x 3
    2 x shredder

    Heavy Support

    Ravager
    Dark lance x 3
    Nightshields
    Horrorfex


    Total = 1000 points.

    Tactics are obvious i think

    This will be joined by a second ravager and some more jet bikes for a 1200 point tourny list.

    Verdict guys? Don't wanna convert this models only to find out they're useless!

    Glavas out.



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  3. #2
    Member Silver's Avatar
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    My thoughts:
    1. Archon has a large-and-powerful retinue. What will they do after they wipe the marines in the opening round of CC? Also, no ablasive wounds here.
    Personally, I prefer a lord with tormentor helm and punisher. Such lord can raise his strength to 5 through drugs and wound on 3+ or 2+ generally. Also, he can archieve something alone, without retinue/supporting CC unit. Provided you give him shadow field, of course.
    2. Raider squads are too big, in my opinion. I prefer them to be 5-man at such point level. My raider squads have a splinter cannon and a blaster - just in case. It comes useful very often really.
    Extra punch from another 4-5 splinter rifles is not that great. It is comparable with lasguns, but warriors are more expensive than guardsmen. And 9 or 10 warriors are rarely more survivable than 5-7. After their raider explodes, it all comes down to the following question: will your opponent try to kill them or not?
    I'd make squads smaller and use points elsewhere.
    3. Reavers. 3 reavers are a suicide squad. They die too early. It's generally accepted that suicide squads should have 2 blasters - so they may pop a landraider before they are down. Shredders are currently not considered to be too great. DE anti-infantry comes mostly in the form of 3-dissies ravagers, wyches and lords.
    Also, reavers are considered to be not competitive, but semi-competitive, although different people have doffierent thoughts. But it is often thought that these points are best spent elsewhere.
    4. General thoughts: I would advise you to consider dropping incubi and taking some wyches, who are much more nasty in CC. 4+ inv save can go a long way. nob bikers get a bit disappointed when they run into wyches. Of course, incubi also can be of use, but they are expensive and easily die to power weapons. Personally, I would advise you to add some 3-dissies ravagers - to surprise MEQs with the fact that they are not going to use their armour saves today. But I'm sure there is no such thing as "the one and the only way to play an army". So all my thoughts go well with my play style, and there are other ones.
    Really, darling, you must not squirm so. It spoils the overall effect.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver View Post
    My thoughts:
    1. Archon has a large-and-powerful retinue. What will they do after they wipe the marines in the opening round of CC? Also, no ablasive wounds here.
    Personally, I prefer a lord with tormentor helm and punisher. Such lord can raise his strength to 5 through drugs and wound on 3+ or 2+ generally. Also, he can archieve something alone, without retinue/supporting CC unit. Provided you give him shadow field, of course.
    2. Raider squads are too big, in my opinion. I prefer them to be 5-man at such point level. My raider squads have a splinter cannon and a blaster - just in case. It comes useful very often really.
    Extra punch from another 4-5 splinter rifles is not that great. It is comparable with lasguns, but warriors are more expensive than guardsmen. And 9 or 10 warriors are rarely more survivable than 5-7. After their raider explodes, it all comes down to the following question: will your opponent try to kill them or not?
    I'd make squads smaller and use points elsewhere.
    3. Reavers. 3 reavers are a suicide squad. They die too early. It's generally accepted that suicide squads should have 2 blasters - so they may pop a landraider before they are down. Shredders are currently not considered to be too great. DE anti-infantry comes mostly in the form of 3-dissies ravagers, wyches and lords.
    Also, reavers are considered to be not competitive, but semi-competitive, although different people have doffierent thoughts. But it is often thought that these points are best spent elsewhere.
    4. General thoughts: I would advise you to consider dropping incubi and taking some wyches, who are much more nasty in CC. 4+ inv save can go a long way. nob bikers get a bit disappointed when they run into wyches. Of course, incubi also can be of use, but they are expensive and easily die to power weapons. Personally, I would advise you to add some 3-dissies ravagers - to surprise MEQs with the fact that they are not going to use their armour saves today. But I'm sure there is no such thing as "the one and the only way to play an army". So all my thoughts go well with my play style, and there are other ones.
    The archon is going to be more of a modelling project, unfortunately, I can't model 2h weapons well, hence the reason for hte agoniser.

    I also want his face to be seen hence the reason for the helm.

    I will howver take your advice on the incubi, seems very sound.

    I don't understand how blasters pop raiders? >.< S8?

    Let's try this;

    HQ

    Archon
    Agoniser
    CCW
    Combat drug dispenser
    Trophy Rack


    Elite

    9 Wyches
    Wych weapons
    Raider
    Dark Lance
    Horrofex


    Troop

    Raider squad x 5
    Blaster
    Splinter cannon
    Raider
    Disintegrator
    Horrofex


    Raider squad x 5
    Blaster
    Splinter cannon
    Raider
    Disintegrator
    Horrofex


    Raider squad x 5
    Blaster
    Splinter cannon
    Raider
    Disintegrator
    Horrofex

    Fast Attack


    3 Reaver Jetbikes

    Heavy

    Ravager
    Dark lance x 3
    Nightshields
    Horrorfex


    Ravager
    Disintegrator x 3
    Nightshields
    Horrorfex


    This is also a modeling challenge, and I really like the reaver bike models. I play a lot against craftworld eldar. Last trn objective grabs with bikes by running into combat always amazes me. That's what i'd likely use them for.

    I also frequently play against guard. Reaver bikes would be able to kill guard in CC

    You're perfectly right with the raiders. I'm a tau player. I cram a big unit of fire warriors into a devilfish and line up targets for fish of fury. 24 s5 A5 shots at BS5 with marker lights is amazing.

    Though DE don't need to disembard to shoot which I forget.

    What are the rules on units inside vehicles firing from a moving vehicle? can I move and fire heavy weapons?

    Thanks for your help, +rep.

    Glavas


  5. #4
    Member Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    The archon is going to be more of a modelling project, unfortunately, I can't model 2h weapons well, hence the reason for hte agoniser.
    Well, I perfectly understand the point about modelling. But look into my profile - there's a bigger picture of my avatar. It's my converted archon. She holds a punisher in one hand (just like incubi do). And she has a predator(alien hunter, not tank)-style pistol on her shoulder. Which really passes for a T-helm. I think, there are other modelling options. For example, I've toyed with an idea of modeeling a lord, who is holding his/her T-helm in one hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    I don't understand how blasters pop raiders? >.< S8?
    Blasters are just like mini-lances, they treat AV > 12 as AV12. Lances and blasters are actually better at destroying landraiders than lascannons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    Archon
    Agoniser
    CCW
    Combat drug dispenser
    Trophy Rack
    I feel your lord needs shadow field. 2+ inv save is really useful when all you have is 5+ armour.

    Elite

    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    9 Wyches
    Wych weapons
    Raider
    Dark Lance
    Horrofex
    First of all, wyches really shine when you give them a succubus with agonizer. It's what does at least half of the killing - or momre when you have to down some wraithlord.
    Second, they could surely use grenades - why waste their high initiative when charging into cover?
    Third, there are too many of them, in my opinion. 6-7 should really be enough. Otherwise, it can be overkill and/or wasted points. They are already durable, and agonizer is really more killy than 3 wyches, especially when you consider that 60% players are playing some kind of marines.
    Fourth, you have an option of giving them 2 blasters. They do not use them often in my experience, they usually use fleet. But they are pretty cheap and can come really handy in many situations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    Raider squad x 5
    Blaster
    Splinter cannon
    Raider
    Disintegrator
    Horrofex
    Well, that's the way I run them. Once again, I do not state that this is the only way. That's just the way I like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    3 Reaver Jetbikes
    Errm, do they have no special weapons at all now? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    This is also a modeling challenge, and I really like the reaver bike models. I play a lot against craftworld eldar. Last trn objective grabs with bikes by running into combat always amazes me. That's what i'd likely use them for.
    I also frequently play against guard. Reaver bikes would be able to kill guard in CC
    Models are real nice, I can agree with that. But the difference from Eldar jetbikes is that our jetbikes are not scoring, so they only can contest. And they have to check their ld if at least one of them dies. And they cost really much point-wise.
    When 3 bikes charge an IG squad, they will have 6 attacks. 4 will hit, 3 will wound. Let's say 2 guardsmen will die (one saves). Then guardsmen retaliate. 9 attacks, 4,5 will hit, 1,5 will wound. You will lose 0,75 bikes. Sadly, three quarters of a bike costs more than two guardsmen. And bikes do not have grenades for charging into cover.
    It is often said that a CC reaver squad consists of 5 bikers, one of them is a succubus with agonizers, another 2 have blasters - just in case. Such squad can shoot and charge an monstrous creature.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    What are the rules on units inside vehicles firing from a moving vehicle? can I move and fire heavy weapons?
    Glavas
    No, but your only infantry-wielded heavy weapon in DE lists is the dark lance. Snipers should sit in cover, not in raider. Otherwise their heads get dizzy and they can shoot something they shouldn't.
    The rules are: you can move 6 and shoot passengers' weapons. If you move more than 6, you can't. You can only fire heavy weapons if the vehicle is stationary.
    Don't forget you can move 12 and still fire raider's lance - as raider is fast. Also, it is worth mentioning that the transport and the passengers can fire different targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glavas View Post
    Thanks for your help, +rep.
    Glavas
    Thank you.
    Last edited by Silver; November 1st, 2009 at 00:35. Reason: more spelling
    Really, darling, you must not squirm so. It spoils the overall effect.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    I'll repost another list later on, took some hellions instead of the bikes.

    Archon now has punisher, combat drugs, shadow field, T helm, Trophy rack.

    Where/how did to get that shoulder mounted weapon? Going through GW I thought of that today.

    Bought some corsairs and a hellion...There will be an archon soon!

    Oh and i've got the codex now too

    Glavas


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    Member Silver's Avatar
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    I'm afraid hellions are really worse than bikes. They are not going to survive shooting - they are slower, and maximum save they can get is 4+ cover save. And they aren't tough. And they ar costly.
    Suicude bikes with blasters will do more good than hellions.

    Shoulder mounted weapon: it is made from a piece of eldar dire avenger's backpack-mounted weapon and a humble splinter pistol from a DE warrior sprue.

    Codex is always nice. I used to play my first games with downloaded codexes and rulebooks on my notebook. That wasn't very convenient.
    Really, darling, you must not squirm so. It spoils the overall effect.

  8. #7
    Senior Member JeremyKyle's Avatar
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    I wouldn't give your Archon a punisher,keep the agoniser it works better synergy wise with the Incubi since they can break marines while the Archon hits the tough HQ's,also what exactly is a Archon with punisher going to do against such things as Wraithlord,Carnifex etc ? exactly you'll struggle to even wound them a other point why the agoniser is better for helping the incubi.

    If your not planning on giving them Jetbikes blasters i'd ditch them altogather.
    Eradicating chav scum since 2005!

  9. #8
    Senior Member Glavas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceChimera View Post
    I wouldn't give your Archon a punisher,keep the agoniser it works better synergy wise with the Incubi since they can break marines while the Archon hits the tough HQ's,also what exactly is a Archon with punisher going to do against such things as Wraithlord,Carnifex etc ? exactly you'll struggle to even wound them a other point why the agoniser is better for helping the incubi.

    I've dropped the incubi in favour of wyches. Also for the carni related issue, I would see me putting a few wounds on it. then subsuquently my retinue dieing to the carnifex's stomping.

    Archon + punisher + combat drugs is S5. It's not huge, but it's nothing to laugh at!

    I'll take it into consideration. Depends on the model really.


    If your not planning on giving them Jetbikes blasters i'd ditch them altogather.

    Seems blasters are the go. The army's theme is fast, no foot sloggers. Gotta have something other than wyches and raiders in there
    Glavas


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    I'm suprised no-one has mentioned using a Drachon? at 1kpoints archons are generally overkill, or atleast thats how i see them.

    Also id recommend removing the dissi's from the raiders. Firstly you are low on DLs, a raider comes with one for free! Secondly raiders will die, there is no two ways about it, as a result its generally not worth upgrading much on it (i make exceptions for horrorfex's /love).

    Ill be back later to write up some more stuff (if there is any, i just skimmed the list quickly) but for now ive gotta run.
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  11. #10
    Member Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceChimera View Post
    I wouldn't give your Archon a punisher,keep the agoniser it works better synergy wise with the Incubi since they can break marines while the Archon hits the tough HQ's,also what exactly is a Archon with punisher going to do against such things as Wraithlord,Carnifex
    Tough HQ or MC will really cause wounds on incubi. Incubi are expensive, and it adds to the received wounds on CC. It won't be good to lose it really.
    Also, I prefer my lord to be equipped as anti-troop. After all, an unlucky 1 on my inv save can really cost me an expensive model if something hits it with str 6+. That's why I prefer to kill MCs with lances, blasters and sometimes wyches.

    Quote Originally Posted by stwess View Post
    I'm suprised no-one has mentioned using a Drachon? at 1kpoints archons are generally overkill, or atleast thats how i see them.

    Also id recommend removing the dissi's from the raiders. Firstly you are low on DLs, a raider comes with one for free! Secondly raiders will die, there is no two ways about it, as a result its generally not worth upgrading much on it (i make exceptions for horrorfex's /love).
    Well, I do not think that archon is overkill automatically. But it just depends on the list. Sometimes you manage to take archon, sometimes you have to be happy with dracon. It really depends.
    On the dissies: I think I really second what is said about them. Didn't notice raiders didn't have dark lances last night. Was too tired, sorry.
    Really, darling, you must not squirm so. It spoils the overall effect.

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