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Lord w/ Veil and 4+ Invul
Thanks much fer lookin. FYI majority of opponents are likely marines of varying chapters, no wolves, typically salamanders n ultra, one potentially problematic game against lash listed khorne based chaos, thanks again!
So you think you're going to be seeing a lot of marines? A fair assumption in most tournaments yes, but then if you know you're going to be facing a lot of marines, may I ask why are you bringing Wraiths and the Nightbringer?
I think you'd be better served by more Destroyers rather than Wraiths as:
* most marines armour is too good for the Wraiths to get past
* "And they shall know no fear" stops marines from being swept (I think, is that right or wrong?) which would be the best way to win with Wraiths (high initiative yay!)
* and because the Wraith squads can be so small they don't need to fail many armour saves before they are trashed.
Sure, they could potentially mess up rear armour for Rhinos, but then you'd have to take care of the marine squad that just bailed out. Yes they could also tie up units to hold them in place for the C'tan to get, but you could do that just as easily, more effectively and more cheaply with 10 Scarabs, which also frees up an extra slot for more Destroyers. In fact there's very few roles that Wraiths can do against Marine armies that Scarabs (with or without Disruption Fields) can't do better, at least in my opinion.
Regarding the Nightbringer, not sure why you'd want to take him over the Deceiver (unless of course he's the only model of a C'tan you've got), especially against marines. Main reasons being:
* his whole "Ethereal Tempest" ability won't work against anything the marines have (only works on S 3 or less...)
* that extra S the Nightbringer has is not going to be as useful as the extra I the Deceiver has (still 2+ to wound and instant death)
* the extra attack is not as good as the Deceivers ability to leave combat in the opponents assault phase (from which he can charge again or even charge a different unit)
* and that whole "gaze of death" thing is not going to work against non-horde/swarm armies (unless of course it negates all kinds of armour saves and you're more than 10 deep in Marine, pretty sure it doesn't negate armour mind).
The Deceiver just does it better, he'll still instantly kill any marines he gets into CC with, he'll still die just as easily from the turn one Sternguard rapid fire drop pod/scouts with sniper rifles spam, he can move around the battle field faster thanks to his ability to leave combat in the enemy turn and all his special abilities work against marines. Oh and he's cheaper too.
The rest of your list looks delicious, good number of Warriors with a sweet Veiling Lord + Immortal combo to murder things that don't expect to be shot in the butt.
What I'd suggest instead would be...
Lord + Veil + Phase shifter (4++ save thingie)
4 x 10 Warriors
2 x 4 Destroyers
That's 1998 points, just 2 more than the list in your original post, and should have abilities which will work better against marines.
As a little aside, for deployment against marines I'd recommend keeping your C'tan surrounded by a circle of lesser minions to at least 12" deep. This will help lessen the damage from a first turn drop pod that's full of sternguard which want to murder your C'tan with their 2+ wounding bolter rounds. I've heard of too many people putting their C'tan up front and losing him very early on to that little tactic.
Well, if u look at it from that angle, sure, either way marines are gonna be making an armor save regardless of whether or not i'm shootin em with destroyers or attackin with wraiths. And yes, nightbringer is being fielded due to model constraints. And yes, gaze ignores armor saves this is usually why i do field nightbringer so in a sense, he ignores marine armor altogether. Also sweeping advance it possible against marines (*smiley*), it's just if they run, "and they shall know no fear" allows them to automatically rally, even if they normally wouldn't. Otherwise, your points on deciever are valid and i really like the idea of deploying and going first and then redeploying a unit or two. The only other thoughts i had was in lieu of running C'tan, was to run a wraithwing lord, i.e. dest body, warscythe, phylactery and rez orb. Other than that, the idea of running more destroyers sounds pretty peachy if i had em, alas, i only have the ones that came in the phalanx . Much appreciated suggestions, keep em comin!
Actually, Marines ARE immune to Sweeping advance, if they pass leadership, they take wounds under the "No Retreat" rules, as WELL as auto-regroup. *Shakes fist*
The difference in Destroyers hitting marines instead of Wraiths hitting marines, is it is easier to hit (3+ instead of 4+) Destroyers are tougher. And if you play your cards right, the Marines will never be able to strike back at the destroyers with more than one weapon a round.
For the Nightbringer, and C'tan in general. Marines got this really nifty new unit called sternguard veterans. Sternguard veterans can fire bolter rounds that are 2+ to wound. That means one of these units can deepstrike in with a drop pod, and throw 3-4 wounds on your C'tan in one shooting phase, with 5 models, that cost half what the C'tan does. It may be important to add, marine players REALLY like this unit, alot.
Scarabs are an ok tarpit unit, fast, terrain ignorant, get a great cover save on the way in. I feel they would be a stronger unit against most marine lists than wraiths. Wraiths are not able to take as many hits generally, even with higher toughness and better armor scarabs have 10 times the number of wounds for the same points.
If you do want to use wraiths, get them a Lord to fly around with. We call these "wraithlords" for the unit they join. Lord, Destroyer body, ressurection orb, phase shifter, warscythe. Grants wraiths much needed hitting power with the warscythe, and survivability with the res orb. Also the lord itself is an absurdly tough unit to kill.
^ yup, pretty much Alzer explained what I was thinking before when saying take Destroyers instead of Wraiths, but if you don't have the models then yeah that's kind of limiting. Definately take them with a Wraithlord (as you, neobubblez, already suggested) as that will keep them alive longer as well as give the Wraithwing some bite. Might also work out better than the C'tan if sternguard are around, although as I suggested before there shouldn't be that many sternguard, so if you keep an exclusion zone around your C'tan you should be able to tie up sternguard before they can hose down your C'tan. They're nasty alright, but not unbeatable if you control the area around your C'tan.