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Once again I need to come to you for advice. We re a small group of players (SM, GI, Orks and me) and try to play once a week. Unfortunately, most of my opponent cannon reach 2000 points, so what we tried was me against orks + GI (don't ask for roleplay), 1k pts each. All in all I tend to get whipped my termies, pie plates and hordes, and sometimes a combination of all that. Keep in mind that those are house games where we often use bases, far from wysiwyg standards
I tried gettings lists here and there with various amounts of failure, and here is a summary of what usually happens to me :
- Monolith : when starting on the table, never made it to turn 2 due to mass laser cannons. When deepstriking, gets stunned before exploding. All in all an average of 1 pie pate per game
- scarabs : killed on sight on all occasions, and shot down on their feet if deepstriking. So many pie plates 4 bases usually die before getting into conctact
- destroyers : outstading performance against infantry, but never managed to score a glancing hit on a vehicule, even with squads of 5. This sound like terrible luck but fielding 10 of those did not help me this week
- immortals : same comment as destroyers, very good against infantry
- warriors : I usually don't bring more than the mandatory 20, and they all end up sweeped anyway
- lord : the only occasion the lord was useful was assaulting with scythe and Dbody. Otherwise dull experiences babysitting its orb
- spyders : absent when I need one, and there when there is noone to rez
- heavy destroyers : manage to land a hit once in a while, and I usually roll 1 or 2 hen this happens ...
I am really having a hard time facing lists with
- S8 AP3 pie plates
- several las cannons
- 20-30 ork hordes
- couple vehicles
My latest list was :
- Lord with orb
- 2*10 warriors
- 2*5 destroyers
- 10 immortals
- 1 monolith
- 2 Spyders
I must be doing something very wrong building my lists or playing them. I read all tacticaI could lay my hands on, but I can't shake vehicles or obliterate massed infantry. It is then a choice of getting splattered by atrillery or sweeped in close combat. I have not tried wraiths or pariahs yet, but I fear the worst.
Am I missing something ?
Destroyers and immortals seem to work well right but even when you field a lot you still loose.
Then you shoudl have looked at what you didn't try that much... warriors!
So you should go for a bunch of warriors supported by destroyers and immortals and a single lord with a res orb in a standard phalanx formation.
Ye Old Necrons (R.I.P.) (7000pts) W52 D5 L9
New Crons!!! (5000pts) W1 D1 L1
Blood Angels (2500pts) W4 D0 L1
This is indeed something I have not tried yet, but what is your plan to take out AV14 ?
Gauss it to death (and therefore focus the whole army), or use the monoliths ?
Sure they can deal with vehicles but most troops can take upgrades that gives them anti-tank capabilities. Not only that but they aren't dependable and dealing with tanks anymore thanks to 5ed. Anything other then tanks Warriors just can't cut it. They only have bolters and can only tank bolters whicle just about everything else can take some upgrade that makes better at something.
The only thing they are worth is being quite durable with WBB. But that's a hard point to run with. For one, WBB is very easy to get because of our poor abilities in combat. And every other army has some equivalent to it, such has taking mechanized transports or having deepstriking/fleet to get into battle quick and take much less incoming fire then normal. Necrons lack an effective delivery system, closest we get is the Monolith but being limited to 6" movement Warriors will move just as fast and Deep Striking puts your valuable 235 pt investment at risk of being was waste by mishap or not showing up until late game. Plus Plague Marines outclass them at doing all of it.
The only other reason other people say to spam warriors is for Phase Out. Too many people think spamming Warriors is the answer to dealing with it because it insreases the number on Necrons needed to kill to cause Phase Out. But it's a horrible idea. One, Warriors are the easiest Necron to destroy, being T4 makes them easier to wound and S8+ ignores WBB. Basically taking a lot of them may increase the amount of Necrons need to cause Phase Out, but having a lot of easy to kill warriors just means that the rate of Necron destruction will be much higher so it isn't going to make a differece. Second, and worst of all, Warriors are one of our worst units for damage output (only units worse are Pariahs, and Flayed Ones). So just spamming Warriors reduces the effectivness on your army overall. You have to depend on other units like Immortals, Destroyers and Monoliths to deal with big threats, but your going to be lacking in that department because you spammed Warriors.
My advice for Warriors, take 3x10 only. The only use for them is objective missions and I find 3 units gives you enough to deal with up to 5 objectives when using effective tactics. I would only consider more if I were well over 2000 pts. And most important of all, play them defensively. Having WBB does not give Warriors the ability to simply walk up to the enemy to shot them. No army has the ability to do this, but they can put their troops in transports. We can so we have to play incredible defensive. Put them in cover, behind terrain and/or use a Monolith to block LoS. I highly suggest taking Monoliths to take advantage of the teleporting. While the Warriors are out of harms way you can move the Monolith into range for teleport the Warriors into shooting range of a unit. This tactic works in any mission, since they can sit in cover by an objective to cap it, or out of harms way in Anihilaition so's not to be taken as victory points/a kill point.
P.S. As for anti-tank, there are plenty of options. Monolith's Particle Whip is great being S9 Ap1 and Ordinance. Heavy Destroyers are alright wielding shorter ranged Lascannons but IMO are overpriced. Tomb Spiders are S6 Monstrous Creatures but are a little slow. My favorites for the job are Scarabs w/ Disruption Fields and Destroyer Lord w/ Warsythe. The scarabs work great because the mass amount of attacks makes auto glances on 6 an effective way to do serious damage to a vehicle, plus being a Jetbike that turbo boosts for 2+ cover you can easily assault a vehicle. Destroyer Lords are solid too, being a T6 3W Jetbike that can easily make it into contact with a vehicle, and S5+2d6 armor pen from the Warsythe can slice most vehicles with ease. Plus that Lord build is great in combat and you can throw in a unit of Wraiths for support.
Last edited by CrownAxe; December 5th, 2009 at 11:17.
30 is the most i will ever use unless i have a c'tan and 2 monoliths in the same list.
Monoliths and c'tan are the most competitive your gonna get necrons in this phase of the game.
Eradicating chav scum since 2005!
Warriors are the backbone of a necron army. My friend runs something like this in 2000
1 lord, res orb
5X10 necron warriors
Puts the monoliths in front, the lord in the middle and destroyers on wings, then moves 6" each time until you're pushed off board.
How would you beat this, no-one ahs enough weapons to ignore 3+ armour and res orb prevents you losing WBB so you ahev a permanent 4+sv. You may say he'll just die but he has warriors and two monoliths in front of him and then a bodyguard of 10 immortals =hard.
My advice, no deepstrike, to much delay. Spam warriors, the can just move up then rapid fire to hell. Destroyers support advance with long ranged fire.
Monoliths protect warriors and kill vechiles from average distance.
When your warriors get close they rapid fire enemy to hell.
To use a tactic like this you could adapt your stuff by running something like this:
- Lord with orb
- 4*10 warriors
- 2*5 destroyers
- scarabs (disruption fields if you can).
- 10 immortals
- 1 monolith
If hes anti-tank heavy put your destroyers on one sid, monolith on other. Put a line of warior squads in middle with lord and immortals followwing behind (make sure hes within 6" of the warrior squads).
Advance forwards a bit per turn, ur so hard you won't die until orks try and charge you. Shoot the orks to hell and carry on. If they manage to assualt you, depending on what has assualted you
a) leave that squad and carry on
b) charge other warriors and possible immortals in
Destroyers should deploy on infantry-heavy side and monolith on vechile-heavy side.
Destroyers should stay in line with everything else until most of things in front are dead, then move forward and push their army into the opposite coner.
Combat units, especially ones with power weapons
S9 and S10 guns (this is less important thanks to res orb).
Hope this helps.
Sacraer, your friends tactics is both good and horrible. Using 2 Monoliths as a wall to protect the Warriors is great but it stops them from doing anything until at best late in the game, so thats wasting 720 points. Not only that but since the Lord w/ Immortals is there too thats another 320 points not being used. Thats over 1000 points being wasted.
Warriors aren't good. They may be one of the most durable troop choices out their but its easily ignored through combat and Sweeping Advance, they have horrible damage output with only bolter equivelents and no delivery system like a transport which solves this problem for other armies (Seriously, rapid fire isn't amazing when you don't have a transport. Your limited to 12" range so you probably aren't going to be in range to double tap or you remain stationary for the 24" single tap but then your not putting out a lot of shots so aren't going to do anything, and they incredibly over-costed for all of this lack luster capabilities
And just refer to my earlier post
Indeed,i agree with CrownAxe.
I'm having the same problem because i've wasted 360 points before i even write a list up on units that aren't going to do jack shit,i'm also bogged down with if i don't take enough warriors i can't take objective and my phase out count is weak...then you really only get some points to buy the units that actually work.
It's either i get a good defensive army that can't deal damage for crap or a really offensive list that risks getting phased out.
Eradicating chav scum since 2005!