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  1. #1
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    1500 - Meltas and Lasers, an Eldar list

    HQ
    Yriel

    ELITE
    9x Fire Dragons
    Wave Serpent with t/l ShuriCannons +Stones
    9x Fire Dragons
    Wave Serpent with t/l ShuriCannons +Stones

    HEAVY SUPPORT
    3x War Walkers with 2x Scatter Lasers
    3x War Walkers with 2x Scatter Lasers
    3x War Walkers with 2x Scatter Lasers

    TROOPS
    5x Dire Avengers
    Wave Serpent with t/l ShuriCannons +Stones
    5x Pathfinders

    The walkers are a fairly obvious gunline, usually deploying, but if i'm facing alot of heavy armour, I will outflank them (with Yriels +1 to reserves) to take side/rear armour or sweep up after the Fire Dragons have hopefully popped something. AV12, i'm happy to just shake, while things like Rhino's and Razorbacks will fall to that much fire.
    The FDragons are fairly obvious strike troops, but with 9 in each squad, I actually quite often get to put some back in the transport after shooting something.
    Pathfinders can objective camp at the back and plink away, their ap1 and ap2 shots can actually put things down, while thier 2+ cover save keeps them alive (tho to be fair they're don't seem to be a high priority target usually).
    Yriel is counter assault, hanging with the Dire Avegners most often, but if i'm feeling confident or see potential for 'bombing' a squad of MEQs, I'll deploy him with the fire dragons and look to drive forward.

    Played 2 games with this list so far, one against vanilla marines, one against necrons. Cron's I pretty much went for the throat, killing one of two monoliths on turn 1 with some melta fire. Then sent Yriel who took down a squad of warrior and a lord. Volume of fire killed the destroyers and despite some quite nice VoD tricks, I eventually whittled them down to phase out. The marines were quite a different challenge, I sat back and hugged table edges with the walkers. Knocked out his transports and made the drop podding tacs and the assault squad come down infront of my guns. Neither survived long, between meltas, Scatter Lasers and Yriel assaulting (and bombing) the assault marines and their chaplain. Ended up knocking out the last few marines who were hiding in a corner behind their wrecked tansports, while I held 2 objectives and contested the 3rd.

    All in all, I kind of like the list. It has some versatility and options. Even outflanking one squad of walkers could prove a large problem for my opponent, but where I've usually criticised Scatter Lasers on this forum, I have to say they worked very well. My main concerns are obviouly av14 IG gunlines (flat out turn 1 and melta turn2 while outflanking the walkers) or the new blood angels. The main downlall to the list comes from tieing up the walkers in melee (part of the reason yriel is there), and blood angels ability to drop in and then assault will be a big problem in that regard. I guess my best hope is to sacrifice some walkers (deploy forward a little) and hope all the assault squads rage towards it. that'll leave me able to shoot them to pieces the next turn. Going to be interesting to face them anyway. Nids I have the folum of fire to deal with and the meltas will make short work of the biggies, not to mention Yriels assaulting ability (hits on 3s, wounds on 2, no save and even hitting before gene stealer!).

    Can anyone poke any holes in it, other than the practicality of moving around 9 of the most fragile models ever invented!


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  3. #2
    Member MylesTheTroll's Avatar
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    I like the list. The only and main problem that I see is the ineffectiveness of your gunplay when your units get assaulted, as you stated.

    Purely scenario: Say maybe 2 squads of CSM Terms or a squad of Obliterators DS behind you to contest the objective that you hold. They use their flamers to take out your Pathfinders which won't stand a chance since no cover saves are allowed. A 5 man Avenger squad isn't a threat as well. Or maybe they drop close enough to a squad of your Walkers to make short work of at least one squad knowing they really only need 1s to make them useless, and maybe hope to provoke you to assault them.

    Your Fire Dragons would be up ahead near the center at this point. You're faced with a choice to get them back to the rear for support or have them truck on ahead to destroy whatever their target is/was.

    You have your Walkers for rear support, but in all actuality, how effective will they be in the end? 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound them, but up against the Terms/Oblits 2+ save. Granted you'll have 24-72 shots going into the unit which is fantastic, and the odds are surely in your favor with the to hit and to wound rolls (not trying to downplay that fact in the least), but if one or two of those squads go down, then what? Or if your two troops go down the best that you can hope for is a tie which would mean moving your slow walkers all the way across the map to just contest the objective. And pray your opponent doesn't have a Defiler for long-range pie plates vs your Walkers or your disembarked Dragons in his CSM army. Would make things a lot easier for him. And/or a Land Raider or two in the mix could make things difficult which would be the main target of your Dragons. And if the Dragons fail to take out just one of them, and die in the process, that would be game over for you since SLs won't do anything to stop it, nor would anything else in your army except for Yriel with his Haywire Grenades which is not much to rely on.

    This has been the result of some of my experiences vs CSM. All about the dice-rolls and counter-attack once your T3 units dismebark, and the lack of Troops and mobility are realized by your opponent.
    Last edited by MylesTheTroll; April 7th, 2010 at 02:37.

  4. #3
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    fair points, I'll try and address them.

    If I see my opponent has reserved anything as hefty as oblits or termies, then I'm not going to commit both FD squads and Yriel forwards. If it's oblits, I'll probably hold one FD squad to counter them, the other (with yriel) going land raider hunting. If it's termies in reserve then I'll probably still Yriel in with the Dire Avengers, send both FD squads forward to try and knock out the incoming land raiders. Yriel should take down 3ish and short of flopping dead (only likely if they all have power fists), he should win combat , leaving a tricky leadership test to avoid being cut down by his initiative 7.

    It's also worth keeping in mind that two squads of termie/oblits and 2 land raiders it easily half the points in a 1500 list. Those will be the main threats, accounting for a couple of hundred points of troops, anm HQ and probably some more oblits/defiler deployed in the back field. With that in mind, I have the hard counters for the two land raiders (two FD squads) and i don't mind sacrificing a unit of walkers to the temies/oblits in order to give the other 2 the distance and position to mow down the rest with volume of fire. even a 2+ fails sometimes, so combined with Yriels ability to fleet assault i should be able to use him to go in for the kill when there are 3-4 wounds leftr in the unit (and that may be after 1 phase of shooting). The Defiler I dont actually fear, with the 4" coherency for squadrons I can leve that big plate only hitting 1 walker per turn, which one unit of walkers should be able to shake it every turn, if not more.

    As for Yriel vs landraiders.. Don't forget the Spear ofTwilight. It's a signing spear, so he can throw it at the land raider at s9, hitting on 2/6. Then he can use it when assaulting a land raider for 5 s9 hits. That should be enough to do something to it heh. Best case it pops in the assault, the MEQ contents spill and assault Yriel for revenge and then you can pop the Eye bomb (you're hitting first with that i7) and bye bye that unit of guys as well.

    Like you said, it'll come down to the dice, but CSM with their low model count isnt something I overly fear. Nurgle marines are evil and take days to kill, but Yriel and fire dragons should cope. the trick there is going to be trying to maintain my mobility so I can take them on my own terms.

  5. #4
    Senior Member shas_on_u's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris View Post
    Cron's I pretty much went for the throat, killing one of two monoliths on turn 1 with some melta fire. Then sent Yriel who took down a squad of warrior and a lord. Volume of fire killed the destroyers and despite some quite nice VoD tricks, I eventually whittled them down to phase out.
    You should be thankful you weren't playing my list, I would have wiped the floor with you . His list sounded as if he was lacking in warriors, 2 liths in 1500 AND destroyers? I would like to know what his phase out was. I hate it when people like this play necrons, they are a fairly forgiving army but only if you have a decent list. Playing badly with them won't be too bad for you, but if you don't have enough crons you die. No exception.

    Anyway... back on subject.

    I think it's good but in an objective game, a good player would leave you with no troops fairly quickly. A 5 man ranger squad is not the toughest nut to crack. 30 wounds and it's down. Also a single unit of avengers? I just don't see it working in an objective game against a determined opponent. The rest of the list is good but a second wave mounted avenger squad would rocket this up to a real to tier list. Also one other miner problem is the fragility of war walkers. Although this isn't a problem if you use them correctly, jsut take extra care with them on the field
    Ye Old Necrons (R.I.P.) (7000pts) W52 D5 L9
    New Crons!!! (5000pts) W1 D1 L1
    Blood Angels (2500pts) W4 D0 L1

  6. #5
    Senior Member shas_on_u's Avatar
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    Sorry for the double post guys, l've been having a lot of trouble with my internet connection lately. Can a mod delete this please?
    Ye Old Necrons (R.I.P.) (7000pts) W52 D5 L9
    New Crons!!! (5000pts) W1 D1 L1
    Blood Angels (2500pts) W4 D0 L1

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    and take care of with them off the field! damn things are the most fragile model i've ever seen heh.

    Well, you can only beat what's put infront of you, so I'll take each game as it comes. I'd be interested to see your cron list tho, is it up in the cron section somewhere?
    Generally I don't see alot to fear from crons, cept perhaps massed destroyers. I out range warriors, while Yriel can take a unit off the table pretty much guaranteed (he will win combat, you'll almost certainly fall back and be cut down) and the fire dragons can roll in as a last resort if you're getting close or something needs finishing off.

    For objective games, I'll quite often reserve both troop choices to minimise the amount of shooting they take. Looking to get the rangers on to one near my table edge or outflank them to take one I've put near cover in the opponents corner. Wave Serpent can maintain a cover save and hope for the best when it comes on. Meanwhile I'll be looking to assassinate his troops with the dragons and yriel wihle silencing guns with shakes from the walkers. At least that's the premise.. there's always variation required tho heh.

    Out of curiosity, what would you look to drop to get that extra 160-170 points for another DAVU?

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    I really like this list, it has my favourite unit - war walkers.

    Only real place to take away points from is making your fire dragon squads, like 4 each for 128 points extra. Making 1 squad of war walkers have shuriken cannons will also get you another 30 points.

    I may try this, but it seems scarey for an inexperienced player, my warwalkers would get destroyed far too quickly.

  9. #8
    Member MylesTheTroll's Avatar
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    In the end, you'll find out what you'll be doing by Turn 2, and more importanly what you can't do. I've had flat-out fortuned Serpents carrying Dragons wrecked first turn before. Lascannons and the dice Gods being mad at me.

    And I agree, if you are playing an objective game, a DAVU kept in reserves for as long as possible will be very helpful if you want to have a better chance of winning instead of tying (which I'm sure you know and I mean no disrespect). You should have no problems with stationary IG tanks/heavy weapon units forcing them to come to you thus being able to outflank with ease. But not every game plays the same, and what looks good/bad down on paper means nothing when you're actually playing and your opponent's playstyle/tactics becomes a factor.

    Maybe drop the SLs for Shuriken Cannons on the War Walkers. 60pts/squad = 180pts. 6 less shots/squad losing 18 shots going from 72 to 54 shots. That's still a lot of S6 AP5 shots.

  10. #9
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    Dropping to Shuri's from Scatter Lasers is an option, but it's actually alot more limiting that just the number of shots. That reduced range (down to 24") can really affect deployment and where you can keep your walkers. They're that fragile that they need to be putting out shakes, using cover and keeping their distance in order to keep themselves alive. The 24" range means I'll often have to chose whether to move up to shot, often taking me out of cover and also leaving the walkers alot more open to assaults, which is the main downfall of walkers, but also to bolter fire, which can also pose a sizeable danger (especailly as squadrons can wreck on glances).

    So losing that range, while it instantly pays for another troop choice wave serpent, also makes my primary weapons more vulnerable and less effective. If the terrain is spot on and my opponents deployment unsuitable then it won't make any difference, but those aren't factors I would ever want to rely upon.

    I don't see an easy way to squeeze in another serpent at 1500. another other way would involve dropping the spirit stones and cutting the fire dragons down to squads of 5, which while you can still wreck some vehicles are alot less effective against MCs, termies etc. Or I could replace the pathfinders with a 5xDAs, WS+Shuris but no stones, that way I only need to find 40 points (drop 1 FD from each squad and the stones from the existing DA serpent).

    At 1750, it's no trouble. I can throw in an extra WS with DAs, even drop the pathfinders for a 3rd, giving them all SLs or EMLs. At 1500 however, I feels like i'm taking away as much as I'm adding. I can't take the guns off imo, cutting the fire dragon squads hurts their utility more than i want to, and even dropping the pathfinders isnt desireable. Their range and ap1/2 shots (with pinning, pinned 10 sternguard for 2/5 turns last game!) are useful and the excellent cover save means my opponent has to come forward if he wants to deal with them, giving ripe targets to the rest of my guns. Dropping the pathfinders is maybe the best way to go, but it still doesnt really feel like a win.

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