Welcome to Librarium Online!
Ok, i am a new Necron player (playing them for 2 weeks, goin on 3) and 'Ard Boys tourny is comming this saturday.
Now, i am an experienced Tau player, but i HATED the squishiness of them, so i just thought, OH NECRONS! so, Here is my list that im going to be fielding at 'Ard Boys Regional Qualifiers.
Necron Lord - Warscythe - 110
Gaze of Flame
Solar Pulse - 90 extra
Night Bringer - 360
20 Necron Warriors (no disrupt crap)
20 Necron warriors (no disrupt crap)
5 Necron Destroyers
6 Pariahs (10 if i can get money for them )
2339 (yea yea, i gota find more)
Ok, here is the IDEA of this army. Basically Everything will start on the field. 1 Monolith will be in reserve for Deep Striking
The necron lord will be with the Pariahs. The goal of this squad is for Termies and other units with REDICULUS 3+ invul and power weps. thats why he has all the anti-Assult stuff.
The First monolith and Nightbringer...The reason 1 monolith is on the field is to escort the necron lord, Pariahs (since they dont get WB, Destroyers, and Necron Warriors. The second monolith is used to deep strike "Down their throats" and have a hayday with the GFA and call in more warriors as they get closer.
now, this seems risky, your thinking, monolith will probably die around first turn...well, honestly with armor 14, its worth the risk. only tau stand a chance (or the IG with that ****ing Master of Ordanance STR10 AP1 Large Blast shit!) the monolith will soak up the fire power for a turn to get the warriors and pariahs in closer.
It will kinda be setup like this:
O N <----Monolith and Nightbringer
II PP <----Warriors and Pariahs
II DD <-----Warriors and Destroyers
And the Wraiths will be somewhere in cover until they can just Turbo boost and get into the enemies face on turn 2 and take out things like broadsides or whatnot. (3+ invul! and 5 attacks on the charge @ str 6! HELL YEA! )
Of course as the advancing goes, the destroyers are for long range support, the night bringer and monolith can shoot 24" even after moving, and the deepstriking monolith can call up any units that are still trying to advance through the power matrix and fire the GFA to deal sum DAMAGE!
So whadda ya think? Legit 2500? How do u think i stack in 'ard boys?
Hello there KizzyPop, Welcome to Librarium Online! Also welcome to the Necron Forum, I hope you enjoy your stay.
Business before fun. Please post Army List threads in the pppropriate Army List Subforum.
Well, honestly your list right now is going to get you outsted in your first game more likely than not. Your unit synergy is poor and there are some glaring flaws in the basic build. To be frank though, Necrons shouldn't be in 'Ardboyz these days unless you KNOW how to use them, to the point where I wouldn't bother to participate myself.
Let's start with HQ. Necron HQ are either CC Powerhouses, or support for your other units. CC powerhouses include C'tan and "Wraith" Lords. I won't knock the use of the NB especially in this points level and on this field, but I will suggest the Deceiver as a better option.
Your Lord on the other hand is a mess. You don't really have a focus for how the Lord is fitting into the rest of your force. In general, especially since you are new Necron (sort of an oxymoron really..) I would say stick to a simple Orb Lord, probably with a Gaze added on.
Moving on to troops, you've come across what seems like an awesome idea, but usually ends up kicking you in the pants. As the game stands right now, Necrons are the second worst army at CC. Sweeping advance will take one of those twenty man warrior squads of yours, and erase it, and no amount of WBB or 3+ saves or high toughness will save them. Because of the phase out rule, this means that two charges into your units will be all your opponent needs to table you. There is a simple counter to this, using multiple, minimum warrior squads. This gives you more durability and flexibility, with just as many units.
Now to fast attack. You're looking more in the right direction with this, but you aren't pushing it quite enough. Grab another full squad of Destroyers and plop them in there. With any given Necron unit it is best to have redundancy, this way if one of the units is wiped out (unless otherwise negated) WBB is still possible to keep those models on the table. Also this allows you to apply the same firepower/threat to multiple targets.
Your Heavy attack is really to be expected at this level. The durability and psychological power of the Monolith is a powerful thing when applied correctly, and two is going to be required to keep them alive at all. A handful of tombspyders is something that would not go amiss in your list either, they add flexibility, durability, and nasty CC hitting power.
Pariahs...pariahs pariahs pariahs. Pariahs are a very interesting unit, however they are also a very tricky unit to use because of their lack of mobility and honestly underwhelming attack power in most circumstances. They have a very particular focus, killing Terminators and vehicles. Problem is they are difficult to get to terminators and vehicles without some very tricky maneuvering. Their low I and A means they don't really stand up well to many specialized close combat forces, even with their relatively high durability. If you want to use them, be very careful with them, use them as a second line behind your warriors to keep others from charging you lest they be punished via warscythe.
EDIT: I suppose as a final word here I should add something important. This is your army we're talking about here, everything I say is merely a suggestion. I'm a bit of a pessimist about the competitive field of 40K but don't let anything I say dissuade you from playing. If there is anything specific you would like to try out with Necrons let me know and I'll see what advice I can give.
i am very sorry, i did not see the army list threads. (still navigating the site)
well, i have to say, while playing necrons, i found that they stand just as much chance in 'ard boys as tau do. (not that thats saying much)
Anyways, here it is: the thing is, the reason that i run a full squad of 20 warriors is that you would have to kill more to make them totally fail moral and faill back, thats my problem.a squad of 10, u kill 6 and tehy cant regroup. in a squad of 20, u kill 11 and they cant regroup, and it also gives with more WBB rolls. sooo, i understand where you are comming from with the whole sweeping advance thing. but there are quite a few reasons i chose what i did.\
the pariahs are to guard the warriors and keep me from phasing out. yes, it is a risk, i agree. but their job is to act as pillows from assulty squads while the warriors lay the rapid fire to take out the numbers. hell, im sure 40 str4 shots will kill 10 space marines or even 15 ork boys (mayb more) pariahs of course will try with the charge. NOW if the pariahs DO NOT get the assult, here is WHY the necron lord is equipped iwth what he has. to start with, pariahs make leadership an automatic 7 (makes sweeping advance easier) and with the necron lord having the gaze of flame, that is an extra -1 leadership, (and they DO NOT get the charge attack so surviving becomes higher) now, at Init 3, it is the exact SAME as a CHARGING ork boy (stationary its 2!) so it will be atleast simultaneous for them, but the necron lord will be at Init 4 and will move first. there are 3 warscythe attacks right there. NOW, Lightning field doesnt sound scary, but really...how many boys are going to pass a 6+ armor save? yea, i thought so. the necron lord also has phase shifter so that he can save against a thunder hammer or some other power weapon. i dont want to take an auto wound, thats crap. and solar pulse will make it hard for the enemy to shoot at my lord and pariahs. so think that 1 through.
he is very close combat oriented. But im sorry to say that i really dont want to just run a res orb Lord, thats very easy to kill...just send a railgun the way and BOOM. bye bye. O.o
ok, the deciever. my reasoning for the nightbringer is to stay close to the pariahs and necron lord. you wonder why? easy. Pariahs have the nice assult2 Str5 AP 4 blaster. The nightbringer forces the enemy out of assult on their turn. this will allow me to basically SHOOT, Charge, (push away) SHOOT, CHARGE, ETC. and NEVER will i be CHARGED, so i will always have the advantage. (until he dies of course.) and a str 9 AP2 shot is indeed very nice to have if you can get it in. so yeah...
Destroyers... O.o i love them to death. i wish i had more lol. but do realize, i have been playing for 2 weeks... (thats a LOT of money to get up and build this much........
but ya see what i mean? if its tyranids or some assulty kinda team, i plan to wait for them to come to me so i can gun them down first and use destroyers to take out their larger units. otherwise, the lord and nightbringer with monolith should provide enough cover for my warriors to actually get in there and do their job.
and wraiths...take out fire warriors with 1 attack i love it
Ah but you fail to see the power in forcing them to PIN and be sitting ducks for you at leadership 7 due to the Pariah's ability. Move within range, PIN them and now they're your sitting duck next turn and not a threat! That's part of the fun of the Deceiver, and yes it works with Fearless models...in the FAQ.
Alzer is right, it's easy to sweep 20 models as it is 10. Seriously...10 man squads are best.
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
i am thinking about 10 man squads, believe me.
(also on a side not to Alzer, the Destroyers still get their WBB rolls if there are wraiths nearby. any unit of the same TYPE IE: Jetbike, Infantry, Jump Infantry, and they join the unit that they make the save for, so it is possible to have 3 wraiths and 2 destroyers in a single squad. )
but you are missing the whole I GET TO ASSULT type of thing. On a charge, pariahs get 2 attacks each, and lord gets 4...thats pretty nice. odds are that i will sweep advance another squad before much can happen. The Goal is to let them get close, and let them THINK they are getting their combat and then blow them away. With this, i am GUARENTEED that they are in rapid fire range with all my weaponry and if they dont die, the nightbringer and necron lord will cause a serious issue with them.
So think about that from a blood angels perspective. you think you get your charge...but nah, you phail!
so uhh...yea, let them go to ground, where they actually get a save against my weaponry or shoot at them with no save (unless they want to go to ground voulentarily!) (and also we are referring to a 30 boy squad of orks. or 2 squads for that matter Or EVEN IG!)( because ANY UNIT 6 inches from the NB basically runs away)
i am considering the 4 10 man squads of warriors. that way i can split my fire between squads without so many complications.
Yes trainer, i red the FAQ i know it works on fearless. but orks are usually fearless above 10 in a squad, so i would rather them get NO save than to actually have their 6+ cover (or 3+ if they are in a friggen crater!)
You do not quite understand the TRUE power of the nightbringer
Last edited by KizzyPop; May 10th, 2010 at 20:18.
Interesting thoughts. And i must say you've established a large collection for 2 weeks, it nearly matches my own collection of 6 years. More Destroyers, always.
The resurrection orb is not for your lord. It is for your warriors. Besides that, railguns SHOULD NOT BE HITTING YOUR LORD (I really should underline, bold and turn this a bright color because it cannot be stressed enough), and even then he'd get WBB against it. Necron lords are independent characters, attach them to a unit. The ability for a squad to take a Battlecannon/ demolisher cannon on open ground and survive is one of the Necrons' greatest strengths, otherwise you're going to face an Ig army and those 40 warriors are going to disappear, and you've lost before you could shoot back.
You'd like to think that doubling the number would save you, but Necrons have this really strange inability to make leadership tests on a 6, then an initiative test after. Having double the attacks on your side will rarely save you from anything with a power weapon in its squad.
The gaze is a fine piece of equipment, and I won't argue its use or the use of the solar pulse. The Phase shifter is best if you plan to be sinking him into terminators, which you are, so again can't really fault you here. The lightning shroud is best used against horde armys so I wouldn't tend to put it in a general take all comers list. Also if you REALLY want it to work, hide him in scarabs, you take far more wounds that way (and likewise dish out far more).
The Nightbringer's combat escape is not as effective as the Deceiver's. With the Nightbringer, only S3 or lower is effected, this leaves pretty much everything except ork boyz in melee with you. The Deceiver on the other hand, cannot be charged and leaves combat on your whim. Alongside this, in conjunction with the Pariahs the Deceiver's Leadership abilities become outright terrifying (get it...fear effects..leadership...it's funny.) Also the Deceiver's abilities work on fearless units. Between a 24" laser cannon and the ability to pin a Hive Tyrant, I'll take the pinning. After all this the deceiver is less expensive to the point of buying you an extra 3 warriors (or a tomb spyder).
I won't tell you to not use pariahs, only advise you against it. They are an advanced unit that is tricky to use correctly, on top of that they don't count towards your phase out number (which is really really low for 2.5k). Normally I take Immortals to fill the same shooting role, because of their enhanced durability and lower cost. Don't expect great things from them, even as a charge suppressor. Also, being very slow, they are not likely to get the charge, the other guy usually will since their effective charge range is going to be between 12 and 24 inches, not just 12." (They OWN on the charge, I'll give you that.)
EDIT: No, they don't. Same type has ALWAYS been clarified as an identical unit. Destroyers for Destroyers.
ok, so random question: What the hell is the strength of the tyranids? they are mainly a horde army, shouldnt they be about the same like an ork in a way?
yes, the whole str 3 and lower is apparent to me. thats what keeps orks from getting in and loading me up with 55 assult die. as for terminators and larger stronger units, usually they dont number more than 10 or 15 for a real assulty squad and that just keeps me alive by not taking so many dice in the face.
please tell me where same type satates that it has to be the same kind of unit? from my understanding, the word "Type" means Jetbike, infantry, jump infantry, etc.
Tyranids have a wide range of strength. The smallest and weakest of their number (gaunts and gargoyles) have S3. Their line troopers (Warriors, Genestealers) have S4 and are added on to by rending, high number of attacks, high initiative and the potential of force weapons. Their Monstrous creatures (Trygon, Hive Tyrant, Carnifex) have S6 for the most part, with Carnifex boasting S9, it should be noted that Trygon and Tyrants run in the I5-7 range and all have a good number of attacks (at least 4, up to 6) and usually get rerolls to hit (with high WS) or cause instant death. For the most part Destroyers and Immortals are your best counter to them, and staying out of CC at all costs.
Terminators are notably something that C'tan REALLY shine at killing. Be weary of Sternguard veterans, snipers, heavy weapon teams, genestealers etc. Basically anything that can dish a large number of wounds into your c'tan without worrying about the high Toughness, 4++ is only a 50% chance to keep you from being wounded.
In 3ed when the Necron codex came out, there was no "Unit Type" designation, therefore units of a "type" would be those with a specific similarity, which would be their name and FoC position. Also Wraiths, in the codex aren't technically classified as jetbikes, they only move in the same way
in case you've forgotten we are not playing by third edition rules any longer. Which means in fifth unit types mean jetbike,infantry,jetpack,etc.
if the monolith is affected by the "oh str 5 is not defensive anymore" we gain the benefits of YEAH UNIT TYPES! So just like the destroyer says, that it also "moves like a jetbike" it does not receive the benefit of a +1 for actually BEING a jetbike, therefore, anything can technically bring back any kind of unit as long as it meets that 6" requirement! So eat that 1 GW! lol, and you definitely know that I am right!
see, that's truly what the nightbringer is for is to prevent gang bang on my pariahs and the pariahs work as a termie/heavy infantry shield.
What I'm saying is the WBB rule was not written with that classification of units in mind. I've never run into a Necron player who ran it that all infantry on the field gave WBB support to all other infantry. Generally two different units in the codex are never allowed to be conjoined (with the obvious exception of ICs) and I'm not seeing WBB as a way around that. Just because it's 5ed now doesn't mean rules written in 3ed suddenly change because of some new term that 5ed added. You can go ahead and try that at 'Ardboyz though, see what the judges say, it's up to them in the end.