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Farseer +Guide & Runes of Warding
3x 7 Fire Dragons
3x Wave Serpent +Stones & Shuriken Cannon
3x War Walker +2x Scatter Laser
3x War Walker +2x Scatter Laser
3x War Walker +2x Scatter Laser
3x 5 Dire Avengers
2x Wave Serpent +Stones & Scatter Laser
1x Wave Serpent +Scatter Laser
i've played this list (or close variants of) a couple of times now vs good players with competitive lists (predominantly blood angels) and done ok. I've yet to lose with it and only tied vs a vanilla marine scout army in an capture control game due to making some slightly donkey decisions in deployment.
The basic principal is pretty clear, what the scatter lasers can't kill thru volume of fire, the fire dragons deal with. Working my angles with the walkers I can always have one group covering the other with side armour shots on incoming armour, and enough shots that glancing av12 to bits is viable. The fire dragons act as a great disincentive for my opponent to try and get close early (deepstriking dreads can be mourned before they arrive) and having 3 bubbles of 26" for multiple s8 ap1 shots gives me the ability to mess with my opponents plans pretty well. Yriel pretty much always pays for himself with his eye in CC but very rarely survives a game (powerfists ID him), while the seer is there mainly for the runes. That anti-psyker is just too useful and guide on some bs3 walkers (or FDs if firing on termies) is a decent secondary bonus.
I'd like to be able to find the last couple of points for stones on the 3rd troop serpent, but i just can't find them anywere. Dropping a dragon is far from desirable as going with less than 7 loses me some versatility in what they can kill and one deep sitting WS with no stones isnt disasterous.
It feels like I have pretty good coverage in what I can kill and after 5 wins 1 draw against decent opponents I'm fairly happy with it. Can definitely feel an improvement from game to game as I get more used to what I can pull off with it and what I need to be wary of or take down fast.
The main things I'm wary of are lots of feel no pain troops as they (particularly plague marines with t5 3+ 4+) hold up pretty well against s6 ap6 shooting, and obviously IG gunline. Russes with their 14 front 13 side becoes something of a problem, but I havent come up against them yet and it'd be interesting to see how far I can get making use of outlanking and reserving with yriels +1. Vendettas are actually what I fear most in the IG list as tehy can lift a whole squad of walkers off the table in one turn, the only upside is that they're av12, so I can pretty much guarantee a shake on them with a squad of walkers shooting.
Thoughts, suggestions and advice are all very welcome.
this is what i wanted for fun ...as for attrition list (or critical mass).. you can do better
you have 93 shots from your tanks and walkers but 72 are in 3 units. anyone who kill these 3 squadrons will beat you
i`ll put you a list with only 84 shots (sorry couldn`t squizze more in 5 minutes) that have these shots on more units, have sacrificial units and movement blockers, 4 troops (instead of your 3) and 90% of army is in tanks/fast thingies. More versatility. Bear in mind is not optimized yet and can be made better:
3 x 5 dragons each in a serpent with shuricannon twinlinked, spirit stones and shuri cannon upgrade
2 x 5 avengers in wave serpents with scatter lasers, spirit stones, shuri cannon upgrade
2 x 5 avengers in falcons with scatter lasers, spirit stones, holofields and shuri cannon upgrades
3 x vypers shuri cannon and shuri cannon upgrade (not in squadron)
2 x walkers 2x scatter lasers
I think will be more versatile than your in a competitive environment...looking at it it miss an autarch but that can be arranged with some tweaking
I'll discuss the point you make about my list, then comment on yours.
The concentration of my long range shooting in my walker squardons. 3 walkers in a squardon are actually surprisingly resilient, killing a squadron will require some concentrated fire, killing 3 will take significantly more. As a result, turns spent shooting the walkers are turns spent not shooting my troop choices or my fire dragons. Thats part of the gambit of the list. You have to choose between knocking out the walkers (bulk of my ranged fire), knocking out the 3 wave serpents carrying fire dragons (a big danger to everything on the table) or trying to put down my relatively lacking troop choices. three 5 man squads. Most people have opted for a split between the walkers and the fire dragons, usually not doing enough to either to really stop them. Even if you do take down the walkers, I've still got 6 fast moving, energy fielded tanks to control/contest with and my frie dragons won't have been idle. The walkers are also only 1 kill point per squadron, so that adds to them being undesirable targets. The main dangers to the walkers is actually not killing htem, but locking them in combat. That was part of the original thinking behind adding Yriel, as he can act as a countercharge unit. That also the source of a level of synergy between the walkers and fire dragons. If I'm conservative with 1-2 of the fire dragon squads in the early part of the game, my opponents are often hesitant to charge in. noone likes 10-20 meltas to the face, so they act as a kind of guard dog, keeping things away from my walkers.
So, looking over your suggestion;
The problems I have with the underslung shuri cannon upgrades are these:
a) 24" range restricts where you can be on the board and still bring your guns to bear.
b) 24" forces you into multi-melta range. s8 ap1 will kill an av10 vehicles virtually every turn.
c) if you misjudge and are nearer than 21" you're in 2d6 melta range from guys in transports, not a happy day.
d) 24" range puts you more at risk of being assaulted, so you'll spend more turns moving away from your opponent and therefore not firing, as:
e) you can only move 6" and still fire all your guns. usually with my scatter laser serpents i'm flanking with them, moving the full 12"
so it actually becomes less versatile to use shuri cannons. I actually used to run the walkers with shuricannons as they're so cheap for that many s6 shots at only 360 all in, but when i switched to scatters with the full 36" range the options i had in terms of deployment and the extra turns movement it took to get from my max range to assaulting my models was ttoally worth it.
Other aspects of the list:
Eldrad. In the current climate, with Shadow of the Warp and Psychic Hoods everywhere, there's no way I can see 210 points of psyker paying off. I actually ran eldrad in one of my games vs blood angels, throwing out 2 guides and a fortune each turn, but ultimately all he proved to be was a fire magnet and was shut down by my opponents librarian (nulifying two attempts to cast fortune in the same turn) after which he flopped dead. A basic seer with warding is a good asset, but eldrad I just can't see me commiting to anytime soon.
Kill points. Your list carries 20 available units to kill in annihilation while mine carries 17. Sqauds of 2 walkers feel weak, and single vypers are as good as handing my opponent kills, unless i spend the entire time moving flat out and hiding out of line of sight. And if i'm oing that I've just wasted 180 odd points of fast attack. 3 walker squads are actualy surprisingly resilient. I only lost an entire squad in one of the 6 games (who'd have guessed necrons), the rest of the time they've either taken stood firm with just a bunch of shakes and weapon destroyeds, or i've limped a sole remaining walker from the squad out of harms way (outranging or blocking LoS). With squads of two, I'm looking to preserve the kill point after only one 4+ damage roll, which again limits what I can do with them initially as I have to plan ahead for losing one early.
Falcons. BS3, no twin linking.. disaster. Outside of Apoc I won't put another falcon on the table before our next codex.
Maybe it's just that I'm now fairly familiar with how the list i've got at the moment works, but I'd be pretty confident facing the list you've suggested. even without first turn I'm going to be doing the bulk of the shooting over the first two turns as you're having to move up on turn 1 so lose a massive amount of shooting there. I'm 95% sure I can make what is essentially an extra turn of shooting pay in the form of taking out the av10 (or assuming the vypers are hiding) keeping the bulk of your tanks quiet with shakes if not more. That should carry over into an ongoing advantage turn on turn. If you forgoe the move up then I outgun you at range and barring the wrath of the dice gods that should work in my favour as well.
Interesting comment tho, I'm just yet to be swayed.
Okey against your list ussualy will be a close encounter.
I actualli find dakka falcons pretty useful (more than prisms tbh) : that falcon pour 9 shots at bs3 and is a scoring tank.
I agree that 24 inches movement is a mastery to achieve but i am confident on my target priority to keep such nasty things like multimelta away from the falcons. Serpents of course laugh at it. tbh in tournament i use serpents instead of falcons as i want ussualy more resilience. player in my current meta play too much defensively (castle marines = grrrrrr).
Against my list you`ll face the following problem: where to shoot your 3 mega shooty units..in fortuned dragon serpents or in skinny vypers that will trickle one walker at the time and will block your walker movements on at least one flank. In the end it will get to target priority and mission. As eldar i do not look too much on your dragons and the`ll probably die as soon they put foot on ground just like mine.
I agree about Eldrad as he is getting weaker. But his main utility is divination. fake refusing a flank is so so useful as a tactical advantage. Also Eldrad can be shut down in a 24 inch librarion bubble as long as that librarian lives. Like eldrad will become taget priority that librarian will be for me too. I also use Edrad cause in my gaming club their psyhic defense is not so pregnant. And shadow in the warp does not work to eldars due to old FAQ if you have rune of witnessing
Of course the best moments with these kind of armies come when after some shooting and enemy removing models you say : now to shoot with these models" and the opponent is like : OMG he got MORE shooting".
Still love the army you put and wish i have so many walkers to try it