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The Swarmlord 280
2 Tyrant Guards 120
10 Ymgarl Genestealers 230
3 Hive Guards 150
19 Termagants 95
1 Tervigon 160
2 Trygons with Regenerate 450
1 Trygon Prime with Regenerate 265
Here is the plan. The Swarmlord will advance and slaughter everything in its path. The Genestealers will engage in cc (or kill if I’m lucky) the opponent’s most dangerous unit for my MCs (Fe.Wraithguards, Destroyers, Nobs etc.). The Hive Guards will hide behind a cover and shoot everything: from MEQ infantry to light Transports.
The termagants will go to a cover and stay there or will stay near the Tervigon. The Tervigon will advance creating gants, which will attack the enemy infantry. It may also give FNP to the swarmlord.
The Trygons and the Trygon Prime will deep strike and do their job.
Last edited by TheNightbringer; June 22nd, 2010 at 09:39.
I'm not sure what you play against in your area but this list doesn't look very strong to me. The Swarmlord has to run every turn, he's not a shooter, so he can be ignored for 2+ turns. Your Trygons most likely Deep Strike, if not they will get focused down as they have Fleet and can shoot, so easy target priority.
The Ymgarls are good, I'd run 8 at the most though. They'll typically be assaulting stationary tanks and small gun squads, they don't need maximum punch. The Termagaunts and Tervigon are your ONLY objective holders and that's not good. If the Tervigon advances you're not holding an objective and getting in Melta range and making Gaunts isn't reliable, I've seen them exhaust their supply on Turn 1 many, many times.
So assuming your tactics, you advance 1 Swarmlord with Guard, 1 Tervigon, 19+ Gaunts (from making more) and that's it. I can think of few armies who don't have the shooting to gun those Gaunts down and than put the Tervigon down within 1-2 turns. By than your cavalry shows up and you can start fighting but you can't hold objectives. Worse, the Trygons have to stand there for a turn before they can really help and short ranged anti-tank/anti-MC guns are very popular. I think you'd lose the war of attrition, especially against faster armies like Eldar.
I don't mean to tear the list down but I just see major problems against the types of armies that are most typical. I think you need more starting on the board to distract from your Tervigon because it absolutely has to live. I think bumping down to two Trygons would help and losing a few Ymgarls, who are there to eat an important tank/unit and than die. You also probably need more anti-tank as 3 Hive Guard are not going to cut it against most Mech armies, particuarly IG and Eldar if those are played near you.
Hmm.. I see your point. However, the Tervigon is able to create a good number of gants and capture some objectives. What is more, the termagants MAY not advance, but sit in a cover and hold an objective.
Due to the Swarmlord, the 2 trygons will come early and tear down a lot of vehicles (if playing against a mech army). I think that the trygon prime is better not to be DS, due to it's better shooting and synapse.
But, still, you're right about my anti-tank. How about some Zoanthropes?
Fianlly, sometimes, I may not need to capture objectives. I can simply deny my opponent's ones!
Zoanthropes are hugely over-rated for anti-tank. Hive Guard are the better unit and I smile every time someone takes Zoanthropes over them against me. Hive Guard don't die from shooting nearly as often, are respectable in CC, don't need to take Psychic Tests and start on the board Turn 1.
Don't underestimate the amount of firepower most armies can put out at close range. Even if your Trygons come up at the same time, which they often will, they're far from invulnerable. MCs almost never have cover, especially with Deep Striking and every single army packs short ranged guns that are designed for things like Trygons, or assault units that are better than Trygons.
I really think Tyranid players make the mistake of not countering the metagame, which is to kill armor and have to the tools for it. Tyranids can run a mostly swarm army, backed with great shooting (Hive Guard) that opens up transports so 15-20 Hormagaunts can eat whatever was inside. Those two units right there, leave very little in the game they cannot counter. If you have 1-2 Trygons that come up late (often times coming up Turn 3-4 is better than Turn 2) that can munch Land Raiders and things, you're golden. All you need is a way to provide stable Synapse, which is the weak point.
I'm not saying you have to run that but right now you're playing into what every army already does, by making their anti-tank matter and matter early.
Now I wouldn't go full out and call zoanthropes completely overated, I'd say there unecessary in most situations were dealing with now. when a very large portion of mech is transports zoey's are overkill and hive guard shine, since for the most part av12 isn't a very hard nut to crack and they're being delieverd to you
I'd only suggest taking zoey's if you know your opponent will have a very generous amount of armor with some tougher friends, russ'es and raiders come to mind, Then a quick sucker zoanthrope filled punch can be useful. In most cases hive guard can and will do the job for you, and a few rounds of S8 will give infantry a headache if your run out of metal to shoot at.
I would still say Zoanthropes are over-rated, in my personal opinion. They get crushed by the metagame and are suicidal missiles against almost all well built armies. If they don't blow up the vehicle, well, to bad. Hive Guard are much more resilient and multi-purpose. Tyranids have many other tools to wreck Land Raiders, which is the only thing you need Zoanthropes for. Russes can be assaulted and taken out of the game by even Hormagaunts. Unless it's AV14 all around, it doesn't need to be shot and it's not going to be fast enough to outrun your army.
So, you claim that two S8 shots is a better anti-tank than one S10-AP1-Lance shot? The only reason I find that you could prefer Hive Guards is their 6 Toughness and their no-need for line of sight. On the other hand, with Ld10 (you don't need to worry for psychic powers) and the synapse creature special rule, zoanthropes can be deadly for any enemy. What is more, I never said that guards are not good! However, I believe that they have a different function than zoanthropes. Hive guards are very good for light transports, maybe better than zoans. On the other hand, zoanthropes are worth their points due to their invulnerable save(rare in tyranids!) and their S10 AP1 Lance shot which can explode even a LR easily!
Another question: How can Hormagaunts destroy a Leman Russ? They have S3 and russ has a Rear AV10 or 11....
with adrenal glands, it adds a + 1 to S making it S4, and glancable at rear armor for most things on a charge
Zoanthropes are not good anti-tank because you are not considering how they're actually used. On paper, they're almost always better but that's not how they're used in game.
1. They have to Deep Strike. This is not optional, as their power is to short range to walk across the field and they would be easily killed.
2. They die to S8, which is one of the most popular strengths right now. Even with a 3++, having only 2-3 Zoanthropes will see them wiped out fast, especially if the army lacks a lot of other MCs.
3. They need to make a Psychic Test. There is a lot of anti-psyker in some armies right now, making their power unreliable when you really need it.
Hive Guard sit back in almost total safety and shoot, and can do decent damage to anything up to AV13. You can run 3 for cheap, they're accurate and have targets besides armor against most armies. It's just not easy to go chase down Hive Guard while the rest of the army is advancing on you, you're playing right into their hands. So you have to eat the shots and hope you can kill them late game.
And yes, Hormagaunts with Adrenal Glands are the bane of tanks with AV10 rear. Scything Talons make them very good armor damagers, even if it's just to hold something up until the Hive Guard can shoot it.
I think you may be going a little overboard on the zoanthrope trashing. Keep in mind that they do also have warp blast so can be used against MEQ and the like should they run out of armour, just like Hive Guard. And there really isnt an easier way to take down a Land Raider than podding a couple of Zoanthropes next to it. Often this does not end up being suicide, especially if the rest of your amry is half way up the table by this stage (and the land raider is likely to be pretty close to half way as well, especially the crusader/redeemer variants full of tasty marines). Not saying that they are perfect but they are situationally useful, and those situations tend to come up with a reasonable frequency.
But yeah the list is still not great. Reaaaaallly needs more troops. Exchanging a Trygon for another tervigon would be a good start. And splitting the termagaunts down to 2 x minimal squads, isntantly doubles your troop numbers. Also if your going to FNP it, dont you need to take an upgrade (Catalyst? dont have my dex on me).
And now my bitter hands cradle broken glassOf what was everything... - Black by Pearl Jam