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hey guys i need some advice, im coming back to warhammer after about 6/7 years out and have decided on an old favourite, eldar. i have re-written a list about 3 times but now i need some advice. this has been written for all round fighting.
10 dire avengers, exarch, 2nd catapult
10 dire avengers, exarch, 2nd catapult
8 fire dragons, exarch, fire pike
10 howling banshees, exarch, executioner, acrobatic
1 vyper jet bike, bright lance
1 vyper jet bike, bright lance
5 shining spears, exarch, starlance, withdraw
5 dark reapers, exarch, fast shot
1 wraith lord, wraith sword, bright lance
3 war walkers, star cannons, bright lance
that comes in at just under 2000pts, constructive feedback please
(can you guess what army i did before lol)
Last edited by bio8eshin; July 16th, 2010 at 01:40. Reason: miss spelt
Welcome back to warhammer and eldar. To start out mech is king in 5th edition and that is no different for eldar. If you are planning to make the most powerful army you can several wave serpents would go along way toward that goal. The dire avengers, firedragons, and banshees all work far better coming out of a waveserpent then they do footslogging up the battlefield.
Now going down the list unit by unit.
Avatar: can be a good HQ if you plan on staying with a hybrid or footslogging lists if the list turns fully mech he should be replaced with a farseer or autarch as he is to slow to keep up with a pack of waveserpents.
Dire avengers: make sure to grab bladestorm it will help wipe out units so you don't get hit with return fire. Transports are a great addition to the unit.
pathfinders: not a unit I like (never do enough damage and can't really hurt vehicles ) but other find success with having them sit in cover near or on objectives.
Firedragons: if this is just to hunt tanks you can drop a couple models to save points, if you are planning on using them against MCs or high have units then they are fine as is. perhaps changing the exarch to the flamer for added flexiblity could be looked at. In either case a transport will get them to the target in one piece.
Banshees: exactly the way I run mine, except they don't have a transport which makes them vulnerable as they run up the field, expect them to draw alot of fire as nobody likes powerweapons.
Vypers: brightlances are expensive and not all that reliable with a bs 3 model. Perhaps dropping this down to an EML ( fewer points and can use a blast template against grouped infantry to reduce the BS problems ) or scatterlaser ( enough shots to still get a few hits even with bad BS ). Glad to see you didn't buy any upgrades for such a fragile vehicle.
Shining spears: I like the set up, skilled rider isn't to expensive and comes in handy so if you end up with a few points kicking around that would be a nice investment. This is a hit or miss unit I have had them do wonderful things for me but also had them fall flat. For more fun adding in an Autarch on a bike with a lance and mandiblaster makes this a much more deadly melee unit.
Reapers: get the exarch a special weapon, I prefer the tempest launcher as it can hammer units all by itself and as a guess weapon can fire indirectly if no other target presents itself.
Wraithlord: I like to set the lord up as an AT weapon platform so I go with the EML/BL combo two str 8 shots as BS 4 isn't to bad. Make sure to give him the flamers. I do notice that the list doesn't have any psykers so this guy will be testing for wraithsight every round, on average this will mean 1 round a game that he will do nothing.
Walkers: starcannons are generally to expensive for only getting 2 shots now, add in the large amount of cover in 5th and they are clearly not worth the cost. Brightlance is again on a bs 3 model and extremely expensive. I recommend running walkers with scatterlasers if you plan to start them on the battlefield and shuriken cannons if you plan to outflank.
Now what would I do to make the list better. If you aren't set on a footslogging list then I recommend dropping the avatar for a farseer with doom and runes of warding. Then drop a unit of pathfinders, the and the wraithlord. Next change the weapons on the walkers to shuriken cannons or scatterlasers. change the weapons on the vypers or drop them. Use the saved points on waveserpents for the dire avengers, banshees, and firedragons. This would give you a very moble mech force with the DAs, banshees, and dragons in tanks and the shining spears riding with them and a small firebase in the form of the walkers, reapers and pathfinders.
If you wanted to go fully mech ( and I think it might make the list a bit better ) dropping the reapers and the pathfinders would give you points for a 3rd troop inside a wave serpent. I would recommend storm guardians as a bit of a change of pace. Either 2 fusions with a warlock using spear as a tank hunting unit or two flamers and a warlock with destructor for hunting hordes and digging enemies out of cover. This would leave the shining spears as the only unit not inside a vehicle so they might draw more small arms fire than they can stand, keeping them in reserve might reduce this but then they are not adding to the fighting either so replacing them might be a good idea. A couple of fireprisms is close on points and would add some nice firepower.
Now if you are set on playing a footslogging force the advice changes alot so won't go into that unless that is what you are looking to do.
What's more, Eldar Monstermash is still viable, basing on 2 Wraithlords, Avathar, FortuneSeer with Harlies, some bikes, some Avengers and some Dragons. And maybe some Walkers. You still can't go wrong using this list.
Apart from that, nothing more to add.
Hey there glad to hear your rejoining the ranks of Warhammer.
What you have written is a fairly good list but there are two things missing from it that I think is essential to an 'all-round' list, even though I think its harder to get an alround list for the eldar than other armies as their squads are so specialised at what they do but thats just my opinion.
The first thing you need is a Farseer. Farseers are the corner stones of an Eldar army able to support the entire army with their phychic abilities.
Dooming opponents letting you reroll failed to wound rolls, perfect for close combat squads like the Banshees against tough opponents like space marines or even monsterous creatures because of their high toughness.
Allowing units to reroll their to hit rolls when shooting, combined with doom your gonna inflict a lot of wounds with what ever your shooting.
Allowing units to reroll saving throws (Of any type! this includes cover save for tanks moving flat out.)
Then they also have two attack phychic spells as well if you want to take them. Eldrich storm, large blast low strength good for taking out weak units with lots of models like the tyranids or taking out lightly armoured vehicles thanks to the 2D6 armour penetration.
I'd stick to the supporting rolls rather than attacking rolls but if you do have 20pts going spare mindwar could come in handy to take out a certain enemy model as you do get to chose what model it targets not your opponent.
They also hinder other armies phychic abilities making them a true thorn in your opponents side when they want to use phychic abilities.
The second thing your army is lacking in my opinion is Wave Serpents. Wave Serpents are THE best transport vehicle in the entire 40K universe. With star engine upgrades they are able to travel 36" in one turn!
Perfect for getting your key units to where they need to be when you need them to be there and get them there in relative safety thanks to their special energy shield that lowers weapons strengths higher than 8 to 8 making them than bit more difficult to crack open.
It doesnt matter if you have howling banshees if they get picked off first because most players know to fear this unit as they have a reputation for tearing through squads when used right.
If I were you I'd remove the Shinging spears as they are very costly and could easily get a couple of cheap wave serpents for the price of them. They are a powerful dangerous unit but I don't think they suit a balanced army list more a specalised one for particular armies. I'd also advise for flexablity and point saving to change one of your warwalkers to have 2 scatter lasers for horde armies and lightly armoured vehicles. (More shots = more carnage)
I'd also think that having an exarch in your fire dragon squad is not needed as a squad of 8 fire dragons are gonna do the job and the extra points for the Exarch and firepike in just unnessesary unless you were wanting to take the tank hunter ability but even then Id only take that if you some spare points to spend.
Thats my advice to help round off your list although I wouldnt take two squads of pathfinders but thats more of a preference thing than anything else. Happy gaming!
Last edited by Farseer Macleod; July 25th, 2010 at 16:17.
ok guys ive had abit of a shift around and im very happy with how its looking now
farseer, spiritstones, doom, mindwar, fortune, runes of witnessing 160
autarch, jetbike, mandiblaster, laser lance, fusion gun 140
dire avengers x10 exarch extra catapult bladestorm 152
dire avengers x10 exarch extra catapult bladestorm 152
fire dragons x8 exarch firepike 145
wave serpent, twin linked bright lance 135
howling banshees x10 exarch exocutioner acrobatic 187
wave serpent, twinlinked bright lance 135
shining spears x5 exarch starlance withdraw 227
dark reapers x5 exarch tempest launcher, fast shot 227
wraith lord, wraithsword, bright lance 140
war walkers x3, missile launchers x3, scatter lasers x3 195
and a grand total of 1995, im pretty much thinking the wave serpents can act as abit of anti-tank/anti-heavy infantry support. so all my combat units are moving fast and everything else is in fire support. only the wraithlord will be foot slogging
That looks like a pretty good list, has a bit of everything in there. Hope you have fun using it!
Welcome back to 40k! I've found that a Seer Council does the job of Banshees much better than the Banshees can themselves. Maybe I like Farseers a bit too much, but either your opponent will already know what the Banshees are capable of, or will after you beat the snot out of one of their squads. Basically, Banshees tend to be a one hit wonder for me, even if they do arrive safely in a Wave Serpent. If anyone has a secret to share, it would be greatly appreciated. Plus, the Seer Council tends to be more durable, what with multiple Fortune powers flying around. If your Farseer is taking that many points in psychic powers, consider finding the points for Eldrad. Eldrad is, in my opinion, the best character in the 41st Millennium. For an extra 70 points (in your case), you get a Toughness 4 Farseer with a 3+ Invulnerable save, knows all Psychic powers, may use three in one turn, use the same power twice, re-deploy your units and wound on a 2+ with no Armour saves. The only downside is that he only gets 1 attack. But for 210 points, I'd say he's a bargain. Other than that, I think everything else looks good. Thanks everyone for bearing with me through my Farseer rant.
I like the changes to the list for the most part. I'm not a big fan of 3 powers on a farseer though as you can only cast 2 a round. I'd also like to see the DAs in a transport ( atleast one of them anyway ), and you still have very few psykers to negate wraithsight. Lastly you only have 2 troop choices (both on foot ) at 2k that will cause problems in objective games. Perhaps not massive problems but areas that could use for changing/improving
Warlock councils tend to do much worse against terminators or other 2+ save or FnP units compared to banshees. It's great to cause 10 wounds but when that turns into only 1 or 2 dead it is very easy for the council to loose combat ( not likely to break because of embolden ). Treat banshees alot like firedragons. Both will often times have more than enough firepower to kill what they are aimed at but both will need support from the rest of the army to make it diffcult for your opponent to kill them afterward. Lastly there is one small draw back to eldrad compared to other farseers he can not fleet, this slows down most melee units he might join, with scorpions being the only exception.
I see what you are saying. It's probably the wayI'm playing them, but my Banshees never earn their points back or live up to my expectations. With a Warlock Council, I enjoy taking 7 or 8 Destructors. Cheese, I know, but extremely fun to play. I'm not sure what it is, but I can't get Banshees to work. I will try what you said but I have no hopes. Something I forgot to mention before, but I prefer to mount my troops choices in Waveserpents and then take more mobile Aspect Warriors such as Swooping Hawks, Warps Spiders or Shining Spears and take Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent. Seer Council (without Eldrad) on bikes sounds like something that would work, but is something I have yet to explore.