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1 hive tyrant with Leech Essence and Paraxysm,SP,TL Dev and brainleech worms x 2 - 215 pts
3 hive guards - 150pts
1 venomthrope - 55 pts
1 zoanthrope - 60 pts
8 genestealers, one broodlord with SP - 62 pts
12 hormogauts, TS - 96 pts
3 warriors, VC - 115 pts
Trygon Prime - 240 pts
Carnifex with Bio-plasma - 180 pts
got any advice? where could i buy the bio plasma from?, it's not on the GW website
Last edited by the_joninator; August 25th, 2010 at 18:59. Reason: wrong data
Much better!!! Right lets get cracking
This actually isnt that bad, but you need more models. For example 12 hormaguants isnt enough, you need 20. Drop the zoanthrope to afford the points.
You also want a second set of TL devourers on your tyrant.
Your big bugs however have too much of your points, at this size having point sinks like that isnt a great idea.
Everything else however is decent. Your points are wrong on both the warriors, and the genestealers, have another look at that.
Last edited by Heirodule; August 26th, 2010 at 10:31.
Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature
thanks, the reason i only put 12 is because GW only sell hormos in sets of 12, ive changed the pts and stuff. could you explain to me what toxic sacs and adrenal glands are please?
I think you've made a mistake on your Tyrant regarding points costs. A Tyrant with 2x brainleech devourers is 200 pts, and I'm not sure what an "SP" is that would cost an additional 15 pts. (???)
Beyond that, here are the issues I see with the list.
* 3 Hive Guard in a single force org slot are overkill at 1000 pts. Taking two per slot is plenty good. 2x 2 Hive guard is better than 1x 3 HG and only costs you 50 pts more. (It's also better than 1x 3 HG + 1x 1 Zoey. which leads to....)
* 1 Zoanthrope floating along the ground is useless. It is just one or two failed 3+ saves away from being killed by enemy firepower before it can even attempt using it's short-ranged shot. Zoeys are awesome powerful, but have limitations. For starters: they're not tough. A 3+ invul save sounds great, but a simple combat squad of 5 marines or an IG squad will just shoot it down with their cheap bolter/lasgun fire.
And let's not even think about zoeys getting assaulted!
Which means you need a delivery method to get zoeys on target so they can shoot. One way is via a mycetic spore. (But be warned that it's a rare army list that can afford to keep zoeys off the table in unpredictable reserves.) Another way is by attaching a Tyranid Prime HQ to the unit to catch bullets (and also to help scare away potential assaults on your zoeys). Since you're not doing either, don't take zoeys.
And in any case, (almost) always take zoeys in pairs. One is too unpredictable and too easily killed, and three is typically overkill. How destroyed does that vehicle really need to be? Even with three, it's only 6 T4/3+ wounds, and still extremely vulnerable as noted. Two is Just Right.
* 1 Venomthrope floating along the ground is useless. This guy is even easier to kill with shooting than zoanthropes, and is only marginally better than zoeys in assault. As with zoeys, you could attach a Prime to the unit for more protection, or you could also just bulk the unit up. Take 2 or 3 Vthropes every time or not at all!
Also note that these guys are truly "support" units. They're not really offensive in nature. While their assault capabilities are interesting, they're still easily destroyed by any halfway competent enemy unit. You can throw them into a mass assault with other units as a bonus helping tentacle or three, but only then, and even then don't be surprised at how ineffective they are killing things.
In the end, Vthropes really belong in a list that is heavy on the Monstrous Creatures because it gives them protection from shooting that is otherwise difficult to obtain and weakens assaults on those same MCs (commonly the easiest way for folks to remove shooty 'nid units like Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants, Tyrannofexes, Harpies, and even Hive Guard). This means that Vthropes really belong in a very shooty "Nidzilla" army, which yours isn't. More hive guard or more zoeys would be smarter choices for the army you seem to want. Not least because you're lacking in guns. Even at 1000 pts you should expect to have to crack several enemy vehicles to expose the juicy biomass inside.
* Troops: In general, each unit is understaffed and unsupported. Genestealers don't have other 'stealers to steal focus from them. Hormagaunts don't have other 'gaunts around to diffuse enemy shooting. 'Stealers and 'gaunts don't really support each other since they move at different speeds and have wildly different survival rates and offensive capabilities. Three Warriors can be enough, but only if you take more than 1 such unit in the list. Otherwise they stand out like a sore thumb and, because they aren't supported, they're just gonna die.
12 is probably the minimum number for a hormagaunt unit, but really 14-16 is considerably better. And again, if you want 'gaunts, you'll usually want two such units to work together.
A single unit of 'stealers can be put to good use, but this isn't the list for it.
A single unit of Warriors can be put to good use, but in the type of list you're angling for, it needs to be beefed up to 4 or 5 models to be of any use.
* Heavy Support: This is where your list is really falling apart. Your entire list beyond the Elites can't shoot. And as noted, the shooting in your Elites is really suspect as it is, so you absolutely MUST get more of it in your list. Your heavy options should therefore be shooty as well. The Trygon therefore doesn't fit at all. And your carnifex should be carrying brainleech devourers and a heavy venom cannon so it can shoot. Yes, makes it less scary in assault, but honestly, even the mighty Trygon isn't a true "Combat Monster". Thunder hammer/storm shield terminators take down Trygons so easily it isn't funny.
Here's the thing about 'nids, especially the MCs: They are the best assault army in the game, but outside of the mighty Swarmlord, they don't have the game's best individual assault units. What makes 'nids scary in assault is the bucketfuls of dice they can toss onto the table with the sheer number of attacks. What makes 'nids scary is that everything is "pretty good" but nothing stands out as "obviously awesome". (At least, the best 'nid armies are built like this.) This makes it difficult for enemies to prioritize what to take care of as the wall of nastiness approaches.
So while a shooty carnifex isn't as deadly in assault as a double scything talon 'fex with bio-plasma, it's not like enemies enjoy getting assaulted by them! Especially when they're part of an entire gang of 'nids assaulting all at once.
Way more essay than I wanted. But in the end, you need to focus a bit on what type of list you're after. If you want "ground-pounding assaulty", you have to make sure to include enough transport-busting capabilities so you don't have to assault tanks first to do any real damage. It's really no fun chasing those things down. So look to hive guard over zoanthropes. Look to heavy venom cannons on your MCs; harpies are particularly useful in this role. And you'll also want units that can mess with enemy deployment, things like Tyrants with Hive Commander that lets you outflank a unit of hormagaunts, or things like Lictors/Deathleaper, or things like raveners or Mawlocs (though both of these latter units are very expensive for just 1000 pts games).
And if you actually want more of a shooting-oriented force, you won't really want genestealers at all, nor Trygons for that matter.
I hope this helps, long as it is.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Complete agree with Number6 on that list. But if I might add to further strengthen his point: You have almost 65% of your point cost into 3 models, which imo is BAD, nids need to spread their points over so they can work together, like a clock with its cogs.
Want to start Tyranids? http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1799921 AND http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...t-builder.html