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Hello, I dont know much about Eldar but from what I do know, I love!
After reading army lists and reading the forums, and reading the codex and made a List...I really dont know if this army works good together or is a complete fail altogether but here it is!
Any Tweeks, Tips, or suggestions are welcomed, you cant learn if no one helps ya!
Jet bike Farseer 178
-Runes of Warding
(This Farseer is probably too packed with crap and might get focus'd but everything just sounds to sexy to give up ><)
5x Warlocks with Jet bikes to be with the Farseer 255
9x Dire Avengers + Exarch w/ Blade storm and 2x Shuriken Catapults
-Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannon 252
9x Howling Banshees + Exarch w/ Mirrorswords and War Shout 287
-Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannon
Heavy Support: 230
2x Fire Prisms 230
Total: 1227 Points
So now I leave this list in the hands of you guys! Please help me!
Edit: I adjusted the list and cleared out some of the newbness lol.
Last edited by Fayt; September 14th, 2010 at 15:30.
Firstly just to point it out, this thread should be in the army list section.
As for the list its self, Your jetbike council warlocks. You don't get any benefits from having multiple emboldens, it works once and only once unfortunately. So your just wasting points there and that will save you 15 of the 24 points that your over spent by or 20 if you decide to not field it altogether.
Your warlocks don't NEED to have powers, they are optional.
Take off the Shuriken cannon upgrades off you Fire Prisms. Your prisms are meant to stay as far away as possible and shoot from a range so this 24" weapon is essentially a waste of points when you have a S9 AP2 60" weapon. Those upgrades on your tanks are 20 points that dont need to be there. the Shuriken cannon on the waveserpent however is okay, you can move 12" and still fire both weapons if you fire the EML in blast form as it becomes S4 so counts as a defensive weapon. (Refer to rule book on tanks moving and shooting for details if you are not familiar with these rules.)
If after doing these changes you have some points left Id upgrade your warlocks to have singing spears so they become a tank hunter squad. pesonally Id remove one of your troops choices and replace it with a small squad of Fire dragons on a waveserpent. To do that youd probably need to remove a warlock from the jetbike council if you took away a jetbike unit.
Opps...lol even after over 5 years on this forum I still make newbie mistakes ><
Thanks for the advice! For some reason I thought I "HAD" to take at leaset 1 power...well thats good news.
As for the Fire Prisms, I see what you mean sitting at 60", I was just thinking in case I got infintrated or Charged...id have 2 sets of cannons to defend them off.
I dont know much about Fire Dragons so ill be honest I kinda skipped over them in the Codex, are they a shooty army?
Also, I know units can cast Psyic powers while in a transport, but can they shoot? or do they have the disembark shoot then get back in next turn?
Thanks for the help so far!
Fire Dragons are one of the best units in the Eldar army as they are a squad of Melta guns. Drop a squad of these guys in range and even a Land raider will quiver in fear. Also perfect anti terminator. Just make sure they dont get locked in CC as they are about as good as a regular guardian with Enhance activated on them, not very.
Once you get the chance to look over ALL the aspect warrior squads, these are the key units in the Eldar army. Fire Dragons, Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions, Shining spears, Dire Avengers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders and last but not least Dark Reapers.
Each of the Aspects focus on one aspect of war, hence the name Aspect warriors, they are fantastic at what they do and not so good at anything else. You need to learn to use them to their fullest extent to make them worth their points, of course in saying that you need them to work in conjunction with other units as they just cant stand alone like a marine army can. Sure you can pop open a landraider with out breaking a sweat but if your dragons get slaughtered by the squad inside then what use is that? Get a squad of Howling banshees (One of my favourtie squads and feared by any who have fought them) to assault the squad after the tank has been wiped out. Never, ever, EVER leave Fire Dragons or Howling Banshees out in the open, put them in a wave serpent!
So should I get rid of the Dire Avengers? After reading the Fire Dragons...they seem pretty awesome. my only concern would be that they are only a 12" range...surely if they didnt kill w/e you shot at they would be assualted the very next turn?
Ill have to take a Look at the Banshees also!
So are Gaurdian Jetbikes any good? Should I just replace them with Banshees and Fire Dragons?
Also I heard War Walkers are bad, is this true? they seem pretty sexy to me ><
Truthfully what you need to do is try everything out and see what works for you and so you learn how to use each unit. What I tend to do is have a fleet CC unit in a Wave serpent team up with my FDs. Use the Fds to make the tank go boom! and then use the CC unit (I use either Storm guardians or Banshees) to assault the unit emerging from the tank allowing your FDs to jump back in their tank to their next target. Of course this doesnt always work as your FDs can be taken out by other units if not properly hidden behind your tank or your other units tank has been destroyed etc...If all else fails send your jet bikes in to save your FDs if you feel you need to save them.
FDs unfortunately need to get close to their targets and are not that good at CC or that well armoured so your going to have to learn how to deal with this unless you want them to be a suicide squad each time you use them. This is the reason a lot of people take multiple squads of FDs and make them 5man squads rather than just a full 10 man squad.
There is a delicate balance to eldar units that make them as fragile as they are deadly, you need to have the right unit in the right place at the right time. That can be said for any army but I find it to be essential to the Eldar. Their units are so specialised that they just can't do everything like a marine army. MArines are tough and well armoured (Which the Eldar are not!) What ever you attack needs to die that turn! Forget targeting mulitple units target a couple of them and make sure you wipe them from the face of the earth! This seems to work for me.
After playing a few games with the different units you'll see what I mean. You want to get as many squads as possible with your points available so that you have some flexibility. Seers councils like you have in this list are good, no doubt but they take up a lot of points.
Your council, (After removing 3 emboldens) cost 408 pts. This is the equivelent of two 6 man squads of FDs in Waveserpents, 2 Full squads of Banshees, 3 well equiped wraith lords or 2 Fire prisms with every upgrade (Not that you need every upgrade :p)...the list goes on.
I love the seers council but I advise taking them in higher point games even though they are damn good! They take up too many points that can be spent elsewhere. Once you have a few games using the eldar under your belt youll see that sometimes. Less is more, what I mean is, spread the points around, dont put all your eggs in one basket...you get the idea. LOL.
There are a lot of EXP players on this forum and they will be able to give you some really good advice but just remember they sometimes have conflicting opinions so learn what works for you but pay heed to their advice, I have learned a lot from these guys but sometimes I find I have better success ignoring somethings they say because it just doesnt work for me.
Thanks, I think I understand...Maybe I should just up the Points and add in the FDs and Banshees, by the sound of it, sounds like dire avengers arnt that good compared to FDs>?
To be perfectly Honest, wouldnt the seer council be better for tank hunter? with the Turbo boosting and everything having Singing Spears would rip tanks apart just as easy correct?
Finally, Should I take off EML on the Wave Serpent? If im going to be stacking Wave serpents maybe it would be wise to lay off EML being how expensive it is.
Last edited by Fayt; September 12th, 2010 at 22:20.
DA are our best troop choice in our army and you have to 2 troop choices. FDs have always been a solid choice for eldar since they do could against everything. Banshees on the other hand are starting to fall behind. Problem with jetbike seers is that they can't use there powers if the turbo boost, hence why I always use Wave Serpent Seers
im talking about the Gaurdian Jetbikes not the seer council.
I have 2x6 Guardian jetbikes atm.
Should I get Rid of them and add FDs and fit in Banshees?
Ok so I got rid of the jet bikes and added in 10 Banshees with a Wave serpent..
I cant seem to find the points to add the Fire Dragons...UGH!!!
Last edited by Fayt; September 13th, 2010 at 03:04.
There is some important things to take note of.
Firstly - You need two troops as someone else stated.
Secondly the seer council is a good choice, and are best on jetbikes, hands down, so thats a good start to your list. Also worth noting, they are perfectly capable of owning vehicles without spears, the spears just give a bonus ranged attack, and you lose a melee attack. They easily fill the role of FD's, but aren't such a throwaway unit, they are the bedrock of your army.
Also not sure where the person is coming from about not being able to fortune when turbo boosting? I thought you could, but I may be wrong.
The tradeoff for a seer council in a WS isn't worth it really. Lucky shot and they are just totally wasted, they can't charge out of a vehicle, and can only throw spears. Just my 2c but there is no comparison. JB Seer council wins hands down.
Dire Avengers in WS or GJB's are the ideal two troop choices, although Storm Guardians in a Wave Serpent with two flamers and a destruction lock isn't a bad choice.
You could look at rangers or pathfinders, but they are static choices.
Aspects are a dubious proposition these days. Fire dragons are good for popping vehicles but are throwaway. Perfect for killing a LR, if you can get the transport away to safety, otherwise your basically trading points 1:1.
Scorpions and Banshees are both kind of crap when you consider we have no assault vehicles, they get owned in the open, and need support to be effective. (Ways to get around this yes)
Swooping hawks are not worth considering. Really.
Dark reapers are often considered one of our worst HS choices. There is too much cover and mech these days. (They are also pricey) If you play mainly power armoured foes who don't use mech then they might be viable.
Warp Spiders are ok, but very hard to use, they aren't seen to any large extent.
Harlequins are probably the best all round combat choice, as they have veil of tears and with similar support to the banshees or scorps are probably better (ie a farseer)
Shining Spears are also a reasonable counter charge unit to stop your seer council getting bogged, but again, they are a huge priority target for opponents and are a flop if they don't wipe out what they charge.
Fire Prisms are pretty much king of HS. The new Night spinner seems to have gotten a reasonable response, but when you consider our codex thats not saying much.
The Shuriken Cannon on prisms is a good investment, otherwise a single weapon destroyed result and its the most useless vehicle in the game.
War walkers are a reasonable choice, they are best taken as scatter laser batteries though. They will make swiss cheese of most targets purely through the weight of shots they put out.
Hope this helps a bit.