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Hey folks, I've not taken my army lists too seriously before as I prefer to choose themes or models I like, but I'm thinking of entering into a tourny, and whilst I want to stay fluffy I'd like to hope that I'm not going to get tabled in turn 2. I do have some pride.
My Army is Biel-tan and I generally try and keep to the theme of agressive and lots of aspect warriors. List is as follows
Autarch - Csword, Mandiblasters, Fusion gun, Warp jump gen (will join the WSpiders)
Farseer - RoWarding, Doom (joins with Banshees)
5 x Fire Dragons, WSerpent, SStones, TL Shuri Cannon
5 x Banshees incl Exarch, Executioner, Shouty, Acrobat, WSerpent, SStone, TL EML & Shuri Cannon
7 x DAvengers, WSerpent, SStone, TL EML & Shuri Cannon
7 x DAvengers, WSerpent, SStone, TL EML & Shuri Cannon
6 x WarpSpiders incl Exarch, PBlades 2xDSpinners
All totals up to a clean 1500pts exactly.
Decent anti-armour scattered accross the units
No real heavy point sinks
Decent anti horde - pinning blasts etc
Few troop choices
Spiders and Autarch may get murdered if they come on too early
Infantry units small so vulnerable if WSerpents get popped
Autarch should probably have PWeapon but I modelled him with a CSword (boo!)
Any feedback is most welcome.
Last edited by Daziel; September 24th, 2010 at 17:19.
Well, luckly for you, the Biel-Tan build is also our most competitive
For starters, I'd replace the Night Spinner with a second Prism. Not saying the Night Spinner is bad or anything, but I think you'd benefit more from having the ability to combine beams with 2 prisms. S10 AP1 Blast, Twin-linked means you might not have to suicide your dragons against a land raider, plus you can strand your opponent's terminators in his deployment zone on turn 1!
Next, I would definitely try to buff your DA squads to full strength. And even moreso than that, the banshees. Banshees have low strength, so you want as many dice in your hand as possible with them. I'd also downgrade the Banshee wave serpent to just TL-Shuriken Cannon and Spirit Stones. Odds are you'll be moving flat out with it (you want your banshees in CC as soon as possible) and will rarely be firing the serpent's weapons. Plus, better weapons on it only increases the target priority, and Banshees are hated enough as it is, so why give your opponent more reasons to home in on them?
To find points for upping your DAs and Banshees, I'd ssacrifice the warpies. I've always had a soft spot for them, but right now I think they're just too expensive for what they do. A 10 man squad will get you a frightening number of S6 shots, but I feel like 6 lacks the numbers to make a significant impact. And unfortunately a 10 man squad with an exarch and all that is well over 200 points. In this case, you can remove the autarch's warp pack and stick him with the banshees (plus if you're looking to give him a powersword, you can always use a banshee mirror sword, or the Diresword on the DA sprue, though that's in the same hand the fusion gun is. I've converted mine this way and still can't find a way to give him a fusion gun :/ ). Also, one thing to consider would be Prince Yriel. Now before you say "But Kaiser, Prince Yriel is an Iyanden character!" I'll say this. I have a modified Biel-Tan color scheme for my army (Snot green and Bleached bone instead of Dark Angels green and Skull white). I think my Yriel model looks damn good in those colors. I also think that since Biel-Tan is the most warlike of all the craftworlds, that they would be far more likely to produce a warrior so formidable than Iyanden would be. Plus his model is awesome. And he's a certified grade-A badass.
So in a nutshell: 2 prisms rather than prism/spinner, full DA squads, full banshee squads, and ditch the spiders. Also, see if you can get Spirit Stones and Fortune for your farseer if you find yourself with any left over points. Banshees with fortune on them can be very frustrating for your opponent (provided you are the one picking the fights, not him).
The enemy's gate is down
Thanks Kaiser, that's good advice. Thing is I really wanted to keep the warpies as I didn't want to be predictable and go all mech, but as you suggest they are waaay expensive.
WRT to the autarch issue, the guy's already painted up and if it was a friendly gig then I'd just proxy, but i guess tourneys will be WYSIWYG. I've got no problems using Yriel, or Edlrad for that matter as I have both models (unpainted) and intend to pait them up as per my Biel-tan variation the same as you.
Won't running 10 Banshees + Yriel + Farseer be way too many points in one place? I appreciate that it will be rock hard but damn, that's about 570pts a quarter of the whole army.
...time passes as I go and play with army builder.....
I've played around with the points and i think that you're right about the Warpies, what i can get for the same points will probably make a much bigger differnce in game terms than they will.
Also, any tips on using Yriel? Hiss eye of wrath gizmo obviously can't be used when he joined to a squad as he's likely to hit friendlys as well.
Yeah it's really too bad that if you want a competitive list you're limited to maybe a quarter of the codex. There's so many diverse units in the eldar army, and all the different aspect colors look very striking when you play it. If Wapries were AP6 I would probably always take them because then rear armor on tanks after a deep strike would become a viable strat for them. Alas...
Most of the tourney's I do don't care too much about WYSIWIG, as long as you tell your opponent at the start of the game what's what. That said, I still aim for it whenever possible (Easy with my Eldar, much harder with my new IG army since GW decided to only sell meltaguns on the command sprue, but that's a bit off topic).
Yes, Yriel + Farseer + Banshees is a whole lot of points in one place. That Wave Serpent will draw way too much firepower to survive. I have several strategies for using him, none of which are exactly perfect, but they all have their merits:
1) Yriel with a Farseer and a group of Warlocks. Yriel is a glass cannon. He can dish out insane amounts of damage with his wound-on-a-two-plus powerweapon, but can get insta-killed by S6. As such, he's a big fan of having fortune cast on him. Plus in this formation he can benefit from having Enhance and Embolden from the warlocks. It isn't very Biel-Tan esque though, but it would make a suitable substitute for your banshees. It has the same problem of points-in-one-place, but it's a rock hard super-killy unit, and while your opponent is focus-firing on them, they're probably ignoring your fire dragons and fire prisms, giving them free reign. Who would shoot at fire prisms without holo-fields when there's a seer council with Yriel whipping at them at a million miles per hour? Plus with a 4+ re-rollable invul save, the warlocks have a better than even chance of surviving if you have to drop the eye of wrath (This has backfired severely on me though, so only attempt it in the most dire of circumstances, say, your farseer is dead, you won't have fortune next turn, you're in combat with about a million genestealers, and your Warlocks are dwindling in number).
2) Stick him with some Dire Avengers. As an Autarch, he would benefit from Defend, if you took an exarch with that power, and he would also serve as an excellent deterrant to enemy assaults. Protecting your scoring units is important for us, since we rarely have enough room for killy-stuff and scoring units. In this formation I usually like to split him off to intercept something scary (say a carnifex or a big blob of berzerkers). Think about this: Charge a berzerker squad, they all gather around, drop the eye of wrath, Yriel has already earned his points back without breaking a sweat. If you pick the right unit (and succeed in killing it, that part is important), whatever happens to Yriel in the next turn is usually irrelevant, if he dies, oh well, you disrupted your enemy, killed a squad/beastie, and forced him to divert his attention (away from, say, the banshees that are now in assault range, or the fire dragons that are now in melta range), and if he lives, SWEET, he can go get slicey with some other poor clowns.
3) Stick him with some storm guardians. Mostly the same strat as above, though here he benefits from Enhance instead of Defend. Also has the added bonus of the squad benefitting from Yriel's Leadership 10. Unless you come off worse in an assault.
For you, the 2nd option makes more sense (Stormies and Warlocks don't really fit the Biel-Tan fluff, though you can make a case for warlocks, the codex says something about them being seers who have also travelled the path of the warrior). You could also use the warlock strat with the banshees instead, though keep in mind that since banshees are not invulnerable, the eye of wrath is a liability, and they are less likely to survive the trek across the table if their ride explodes. Mainly I'd say using Yriel is about keeping him with a squad strictly for protection against incoming fire (he also can't take a transport by himself, though it'd be totally sweet if he could), and then splitting him off only when you can dictate the terms of the fight. He doesn't need to be with a farseer, but if he's gonna be going up against S6+, you at least want him near one for fortune.
I wasn't planning on writing a book, but now that I've started, I'll share a couple quick stories. I have seen Yriel do incredible things. I have also seen him fall flat on his face.
Incredible: Yriel scewers a lictor, marches forward and butchers a carnifex, then proceeds to kill 24 genestealers (2 squads of 12) before finally being brought down by some very persistant gaunts. Slaughtered an entire flank (the STRONG flank no less) all by himself.
Flat on his face: In August I went to a tourney where all day my luck was just absolutely god-awful. Game 1: Yriel drops the eye of wrath on a squad of 8 chaos possessed. I made all my wound rolls. The possessed made all their 5+ invuls. The rest is history. Game 2: Desperate to eliminate a serious threat, I charge him into the Tyranid parasite of whatever-the-place-is. The thing has 2 wounds left, and I knew it was S6, but I was confident since I was hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s with 5 attacks striking first. Hit roll: 4 ones and a four. The single hit failed to wound. The rest is history. Game 3: I put him in Time Out and he stayed in his wave serpent all game.
Though actually, those 3 games are really the only times I can remember where he hasn't performed. THere are of course times where you get less milage out of him, but for the most part I'd say he's a steal at 155 points.
So there you have it, Kaiser's unofficial Yriel Tactica.
The enemy's gate is down
You don't have to sacrifice your hybrid idea.
Warshout, all underslung shuriken cannons, TL EML on banshee serpent-replace with TL shuriken cannon, drop 1 warp spider.
If you can't find points for a autarch power weapon, drop the spiders and give it to the autarch.
Use your extra points to add more DA and banshees.
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
I like the list with the following diferences:
1. Autarch need a powersword. if u moddeled chainsword simply cut the ridge and make it flat...then is a powersword and nobody can deny that. I can say that spiders, spiderexarch with powerblades and autarch with powerweapon and mandiblaster is a scary unit that is underlooked by enemies (but they still have 10 PW attacks on charge if i count correctly-don`t have codex on hand now). I used it with great successes in last year nat champs in my country and they murdered absolutly all they got into and if they got with enemy dedicated CC they last enough to make them useless in the strategical term of the game.
They have a single problem: they are infatry on foot so guess where all the enemy anty inf fire goes in first turns?
2.i would take hit and run on spiders if you have points ..not a priority thought
3.eml on banshees serpent is useless ussualy. your army goes like this...it throws 3 units on offensive with 4-5 on back supporting. only 2 offensive units will get smashed no matter how much support you can get.
4. dunno about the spinner...i would keep it as you do not need to commit your troops in order to kill their infantry. a prism is also useful. I would have to get some tests in order to see what is more synergetic in your list.
5. give also the spear to the farseer. make banshee more versatile (smash a transport assault what is inside?)
Last edited by niraco; September 25th, 2010 at 09:03.
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
Well I wouldn't say he has to worry about enemy anti-infantry heading towards his spiders in the first turns, since I find they do better when they deepstrike, especially since in 5th edition you don't need to pay the 20 points to do so, since all jump infantry can deep strike. If your going to use the warp spiders I'd definitely do this, because if they are on the table, then everything that can't hurt your wave serpents is gonna be pointed at them. And yeah, with the autarch they get 10 powerweapon attacks on the charge, but you definitely want hit and run if you plan on using them to assault. I'd still argue that there are better things to spend the points on, but you also said you were going for a fluffy list, and more squads of aspect warriors is definitely more fluffy than fewer squads of aspect warriors. If you are planning on using them, I'd do this. Deepstrike them, get off a volley (maybe the autarch's fusion gun and all those S6 shots at a tank's rear armor?) and then use them as niraco described. He and Eric both know what they're talking about.
The enemy's gate is down