<2000 1500 balanced <--is it? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Member badxample's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    33 (x1)

    1500 balanced <--is it?

    Hive Tyrant
    Heavy Venom Cannon
    LW+BS
    Hive command

    Tervigon
    adrenal gland
    toxin sacs
    catalyst

    16 Hormogaunts w/toxin sacs
    8 Genestealers + broodlord
    18 Tgaunts
    18 Tgaunts
    3 Warriors + barbed strangler

    2 Hive guard
    2 Hive guard
    1 Venomthrope

    Trygon Prime
    adrenal gland
    *********************************************************
    My aim in posting the list is not so much as for critique of the list (though that is welcome) as it is to ask questions of a tactical nature. How do you use each unit to it's fullest? How to deploy? etc. Any links you have to good briefings on this subject are welcome as well.

    ex. how to use a termagaunt to it's fullest? what do you do with a 12" assault 1 shot anyway?

    ex. how to kill transports with hive gaurd when their range is only 24"?

    ex. if i outflank my genestealers and homrogaunts should the trygon be put on the board or deep strike?


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,138
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    344 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by badxample View Post
    ex. how to use a termagaunt to it's fullest? what do you do with a 12" assault 1 shot anyway?

    Personal opinion, i dont. As far as im concerned unless you build your list around them termaguants are only ever included for 3 reasons. 1) cheap objective sitters. 2) to unlock troops choice tervigons. 3) to screen the more important shooty stuff in a shooty list. For me theyre just too weak to be used as effective shooting units. A full brood of 20 will only manage 1 or 2 MEQ kills a turn. On the other hand running them in a buffing list with tervigons, they become a surprisingly dangerous CC unit, but for shooting i say leave them at home unless your backing devourers.

    ex. how to kill transports with hive gaurd when their range is only 24"?

    This shouldnt be too bad.... if its a transport it should be coming towards you to try and drop off its cargo. However if you find range to still be a problem, try onslaught.

    ex. if i outflank my genestealers and homrogaunts should the trygon be put on the board or deep strike?

    Deep Striking the trygon has nothing to do with weither or not you outflank the stealers or hormaguants. You need to make the decision based on your opponents list. For example against a mechanised assault list, deep striking the trygon is a very bad idea, theyre going to be coming towards you anyway, so why put yourself at the mecry of reserve rolls and scatter dice? In the same way against a heavily shooty build feel free to deep strike him, get in amung your opponents lines and wreak havoc. Just be aware that this means your tyrant/tervigon will take a bit more fire in the meantime.
    And a quick point on deployment to finish, make the most of your cover saves, your list is built with the ability to gain quite a few. For example put a tervigon behind hive guard, and then hive guard behind a guant wall and happy day, everythings got a 4+ cover save (obviously this might not work depending on the size of your tervigon, but we're just gonna assume it does.)

    .... Actually i cant help myself, quick bit of critique, never mix range and CC on tyrants. Either give him a set of TL devourers, or make him fully CC. Id go with the former. And you might want to pick up old adversary for the sake of those termguants.
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

  4. #3
    Member badxample's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    33 (x1)

    I only mention the trygon deployment as I'd read elsewhere to only hold a few in reserve or all in reserve but not half and half unit wise. Between the venomthrope and tervigon I hope the guants gain some modicum of ferocity, but alone they are weak. Last night 24 of them couldn't tarpit some witches for more then 2 assault rounds.
    Last edited by badxample; November 29th, 2010 at 04:31. Reason: intuitive texting my a$$

  5. #4
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,138
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    344 (x8)

    Ill elaborate a little on the deep striking thing.

    Basically having the OPTION to reserve means your list is tactically flexible. You can choose to reserve in some circumstances, but footslog in others. However in lists where tactics means a large part of the army ALWAYS reserves, then you need to either have a few such units, or the entire army, to avoid splitting your force.

    As for the guants, yes the tervigon and venomthrope will make them more dangerous, but they lack numbers for one, and really need preferd enemy from someone. THEN they become leathal killing machines
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

  6. #5
    Member badxample's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    33 (x1)

    Thanks for taking the time to share with me Heirodule. You speak very highly of prefered enemy, and when you say someone with prefered enemy it can only be the hive tyrant. Do you then reccommend swaping hive commander for it?

    What kind of numbers of gaunts are needed before they become lethal killing machines? Most people i've queried have chided my orginal lists for having gaunts squads that were too large and unweildy. My goal is that the gaunts are numerous enough and bosltered by buffs to not be disregarded, yet if focused upon that i have enough other dangerous units around to still cause problems. My phalanx will have a few warriors and the tyrant as potent kill units (additional possibility of trygon depending on deployment). The venomthrope and hive gaurd can't count as true threats within the phalanx, though they will be targets for what they're bringing to the table. As a general opinion would you outflank with the genestealers and homroguants, or bring them into the phalanx to give it more teeth?

    Most describe gaunts as tarpit, screening, or objective camping. In my phalanx with so much support units should i be concerned if an enemy works to kill all the gaunts?

    When i mentioned hive gaurd suffering from inability to shoot up transports it was against dark eldar who were whisking away squads ferrying them around in transports with flicker fields. How would you combat a highly mobile redeployment tactic with the described list above?

  7. #6
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,138
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    344 (x8)

    Dont forget the swarmlord has preferd enemy aswell, whilst it would be madness to take him in your list, he can work. As for ol adversary Vs. Hive commander... thats a tough one. You havnt got any units that really need to be in ASAP (zoanthropes) so could probably affoard a slight delay... i say go for it.

    The guants are an interesting one. Having another look at your list, id be inclinded to say take one large brood of 30, rather than 2 broods of 20. As for your goal, without a shadow of a doubt, the magic number is 30. Im sure ive done the maths before but looking at it brings a warm buggy glow to my heart, so ill do it again

    A full brood of 30 charging (or indeed counter charging) with a tervigon set up as you have with preferd enemy from a tyrant will get:

    VS MEQ = 60 attacks - 45 hits - 33.75 wounds - 11.25 dead.
    VS GEQ = 60 attacks - 45 hits - 33.75 wounds - 22.5 dead

    And just for the sake of it without preferd enemy

    Vs MEQ = 60 attacks - 30 hits - 20 wounds - 6 dead
    Vs GEQ = 60 attacks - 30 hits - 20 wounds - 12 dead

    Now bearing in mind that you should have feel no pain aswell, and almost certainly a cover save (either from the thrope, from spawned guants or simply from cover) this suddenly becomes a terrifying prospect. And yet its no death star, your list is simply working togther to make something greater than the sum of its parts. If your opponents focuses their fire on the guants, its going to take a long while to bring the down, and in the meantime theres certainly a lot of threats around that will also need shooting.

    Should you be worried if they all die? Nope. If your opponent has poured enough fire into them to kill them all (assuming they dont have one of those bloody IG manticores ) then theyre equally done there job in taking fire for the other units.

    I would definatly outflank the stealers, but id leave the hormaguants where they are actually. More targets to shoot at is never a good thing for an opponent, and one outflanking unit should be good enough.

    Ah no wonder your hive guard struggled. Ive yet to play the new DE, but i can see why youd have problems. My first thought would be did you did you use the rules for vehicles correctly? No embarking or disembarking if you move 12+ inches would be the main one. If so i think your best bet would be to make the absolute most of the turn when they drop off their cargo, they should be reasonably close to you, so its then when you need to strike. For future games, consider a set of 3 deathspitters on your warriors, they still shred DE armour. A dakka fex could also cause a bit of damage.
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

  8. #7
    Member badxample's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    33 (x1)

    You can embark or disembark if you move 12 or less, can't you? And if you didn't move the transport, units then embark it can turbo 36 after they get on.

  9. #8
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,138
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    344 (x8)

    Embarking is good, turbo is not. Vehicles do not have a turbo boost, fast vehicles can move 18" and fast skimmers can move 24". Jetbikes and bikes can turbo 24 inches, with reaver jetbikes being the only unit in the game with a 36" turbo. But vehicles cannot turbo boost.

    Also you cant move more than 12" when you embark. So no, you cant embark, then do a flat out move.
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

  10. #9
    Member badxample's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    33 (x1)

    In the rule book it says that if the vehicle did not move before the passengers embarked it may move as normal. (pg. 66) But, in the flat out section it does also say they cannot embark or disembark if it moved or is going to move flat out. Thanks for that, i'll bring it to my groups attention.

    So operating a phalanx, i imagine it moves pretty slowly? You need to stay in 6" of the venomthrope and tervigon at all times, so any run moves are done on the lowest roll of all of them. Does a phalanx hinge on the enemy coming to them? Hormoguants strength is their speed and extra attacks. With the tervigon present giving the regular gaunts counter attack and toxin sacs (as well other buffs) should i not just take more gaunts instead?

  11. #10
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,138
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    344 (x8)

    Are you by chance a necron player? Im just wondering as tyranids dont have a "phalanx" tactic as such and playing in a similar style to a necron phalanx will get you obliterated.

    Should you take more guants... no not really. Youve got the 30 as is, but hormagunts are notably quicker and will perform a very different roll, that of a first strike unit.

    And you certainly dont need to keep within 6" of either the venomthrope or the tervigon. Its just the brood of 30 that needs to stay within 6 of the tervigon, and as for the venomthrope, trying to keep your whole army within 6 of that is suicide. Simply park it behind an important unit, and maybe keep one of the big beastys in if you can, but dont feel restricted in your movement. Certainly reducing your run move is a really bad idea. Dont forget you only need 1 model in range to claim the save.

    Nid lists work best with synergy, with the units supporting each other. However forcing them so close you lose all manouverablity is just going to get you killed.
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts