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  1. #1
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    1750 tourney based on new errata

    Since my idea of beastmasters with PFP was shot down by the new faq, I decided to go a different route but keep the original goals in mind. Most players seem to be obsessed with incubi, wracks, and wyches in raiders zipping across the board to do their assaulting. This seems inherently weak to me as the raiders are cardboard coffins just waiting to bury these assault groups before they ever reach their intended target.

    Baron Sathonyx
    Haemonculus w/ Casket of Flensing, Shattershard
    Hellions x 16, w/ Helliarch, Stunclaw
    Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Flickerfield
    Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Flickerfield
    Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Flickerfield
    Beastmasters x 5 w/ Clawed Fiend, Razorwing Flock x 4, Khymera x 10
    Beastmasters x 5 w/ Clawed Fiend, Razorwing Flock x 4, Khymera x 10
    Ravager w/ Flickerfield
    Ravager w/ Flickerfield
    Ravager w/ Flickerfield

    Total: 1746

    Baron and Haemonculus start game with Hellions, and on the first turn Haemonculus leaves the group (and his pain token) and jumps into a raider with warriors. Smart play would be to keep the Baron's unit in cover picking off squads until they are confident in a smashing assault. Beasts should have little problems charging across the board and getting into CC by turn 2. 39 wounds per unit is a lot to have to shoot through before they break an opponent's front line. All this backed up by 12 dark lances and 3 blasters should be enough to take down heavy, exposed armor. Light armor can be assaulted by the beasts should all of the dark light weapons be taken out.

    Looking for suggests, comments, complaints, and weaknesses from the community.


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  3. #2
    Member Archon Anastari's Avatar
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    This list has the same problem as most dark eldar lists which is all of your dark lance firepower is stacked into your heavy support slot... you need to disperse it more or else u wont have any at all... here is a rearrangement that I came up for your list...

    HQ: Baron

    HQ: haemonculi

    E: 4 trueborn + 2 dark lances + raider with shock prow

    E: 4 trueborn + 2 dark lances + raider with shock prow

    T: 15 hellions + helliarch + stun claw(baron)

    T: 5 warriors + blaster + raider

    T: 5 warriors + blaster + raider

    T: 5 warriors + blaster + raider

    FA: 3 beastmasters + 5 khymerae + 4 razorwing flocks

    FA: 3 beastmasters + 5 khymerae + 4 razorwing flocks

    HS: ravager

    HS: ravager

    HS: ravager

    so you went from having 15 lance shots to 21 lances shots that are better dispersed... you now have better target saturation in terms of mechs so you can afford some casualties in that department... use ur beast packs to screen your mechs while there moving so they get 4+ cover saves before ur beast pack size was a bit excessive at that 1750pt level... I honestly think that if your going to use hellions then you should use reavers cause reavers can act as mobile cover for the hellions but I left that out cause it seems like you wanted to go the beastmasters route...

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    Beastmasters can act as cover for the hellions the same as reavers because the beastmasters are hellion models. I see you stripped all of the flickerfields... interesting... This will force me to move them together which is not such a bad thing other then puting them in bolter fire range. At that range however I would expect my opponent to be more scared of the hordes in front of them than another dark lance. I don't agree with lowering the beastmaster numbers. The bigger the unit is the scarier it gets. At small numbers it's not much of a threat since it has no power weapons, and I wouldn't expect them to live long enough to reach artillery at that size. I will consider dropping the flickerfields and lowering the Hellion size to fit in trueborn dark lance squads. Thanx

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    trueborn should always be mobile so blasters are better otherwise having a lance defeats the point of a raider or half of it.
    Superior stamina may win battles, but the ability to quickly recover wins wars.

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    Member Archon Anastari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antique_nova View Post
    trueborn should always be mobile so blasters are better otherwise having a lance defeats the point of a raider or half of it.
    Why should they always be mobile? Blasters raise the points of the sqd by a lot and then after the sqd takes shots it dies... the two dark lance unit will more often then not be able to put out more shots than mobile trueborn cause they will last longer than the trueborn with blasters... Obviously they dont go in the raider... the raider gives you another dark lance that u can use to target another unit separately as well as give you mobile cover, can perform the same role as a tau piranha by forming road blocks against mech that cant fly( not something you would want to do if there was a sqd inside cause then you basically forfeit that sqd without it accomplishing anything), it can also act as an extra transport in case one of your cc specialist unit's transport gets shot down, you can actually tank shock 24" without worrying about the sqd inside auto dying cause you went flat out, and it can also give you another last turn objective contester.

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    I would like to counter propose your arrangement with this:

    105 - Baron
    65 - Haemonculus w/ Shattershard

    207 - Hellion x 12 w/ Helliarch, Stunclaw
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies

    270 - Beastmasters x 5 w/ Razorwing Flock x 6, Khymera x 10 (86 attacks on the charge)
    270 - Beastmasters x 5 w/ Razorwing Flock x 6, Khymera x 10 (45 wounds)

    110 - Ravager, Grisly Trophies
    110 - Ravager, Grisly Trophies
    110 - Ravager, Grisly Trophies

    Total: 1747

    With this you arrange the raiders and ravagers behind the hellions and beastmasters in order to give them a 4+ cover save. In turn they provide leadership re-rolls to the entire army. Proper play will give the hellions cover saves while they move forward with the vehicles in tow. The list has 17 dark light weapons now which stick to the 100 points per dark light weapon 'rule'.

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    Member Archon Anastari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdrubal View Post
    I would like to counter propose your arrangement with this:

    105 - Baron
    65 - Haemonculus w/ Shattershard

    207 - Hellion x 12 w/ Helliarch, Stunclaw
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies
    125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Raider, Grisly Trophies

    270 - Beastmasters x 5 w/ Razorwing Flock x 6, Khymera x 10 (86 attacks on the charge)
    270 - Beastmasters x 5 w/ Razorwing Flock x 6, Khymera x 10 (45 wounds)

    110 - Ravager, Grisly Trophies
    110 - Ravager, Grisly Trophies
    110 - Ravager, Grisly Trophies

    Total: 1747

    With this you arrange the raiders and ravagers behind the hellions and beastmasters in order to give them a 4+ cover save. In turn they provide leadership re-rolls to the entire army. Proper play will give the hellions cover saves while they move forward with the vehicles in tow. The list has 17 dark light weapons now which stick to the 100 points per dark light weapon 'rule'.
    I really like the grisly trophies they work sooo well with the beastpacks... I may have to incorporate this in to my list ... I still feel like most of your anti tank is too heavily stacked in the heavies even though you have 8 lance shots in your troops choice but half of those are 18" range... Your army tactics i do not agree with... the vehicles are the most important things in your army because there carrying your anti tank you need to keep them protected with 4+ covers save rather than the infantry cause mechs are not as durable to long range fire as infantry units are on top of the fact that its much easier for infantry to get cover rather than mechs... I would swap the arrangement and keep the beasts and hellions in the front or just send the hellions off on there own to cause havoc and harass its up to you and depends on the situation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archon Anastari View Post
    I really like the grisly trophies they work sooo well with the beastpacks... I may have to incorporate this in to my list ... I still feel like most of your anti tank is too heavily stacked in the heavies even though you have 8 lance shots in your troops choice but half of those are 18" range... Your army tactics i do not agree with... the vehicles are the most important things in your army because there carrying your anti tank you need to keep them protected with 4+ covers save rather than the infantry cause mechs are not as durable to long range fire as infantry units are on top of the fact that its much easier for infantry to get cover rather than mechs... I would swap the arrangement and keep the beasts and hellions in the front or just send the hellions off on there own to cause havoc and harass its up to you and depends on the situation...
    People have said much of the same in other forums I posted the list in. How would you find the points to give them flickerfields? The cover saves are not reliable when the raiders need to be mobile so they can stick with the infantry for the grisly trophies reroll.

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    double post

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    Dont put flickerfields on your raiders... you only need the cover saves for the first couple of rounds of shooting if your winning meaning that your shots have hit home and have really taken a toll then you dont need the cover saves that much anymore and then your beast can move in and clean up but there should me terrain for you to screen your raiders at that point since you should be able to control the midfield... when i deploy my beast units i deploy them as far forward as possible in a line stretching across my deployment zone, compensating for terrain if i need to. for the raiders with blasters sometimes i skip out on the screen and move into a spot where i can claim cover saves while the beasts move forward... the screening tactic is for the first and second turn when your army is the most vulnerable to shooting and to buy you time to weaken ur opponent thus as i said before allowing you to control the midfield. I know i just repeated what i said earlier but i just wanted to restate it to help make the point clearer...

    as for the grizly trophies u could move a couple of ur warriors raiders in there with em just to ensure u got the re roll and also u could pull off some side armor shots in the process.

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