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New DE list - is it any good?

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1K views 18 replies 3 participants last post by  goldenS 
#1 · (Edited)
ok, here goes for the Kabal of the Horned Helm - my army list

HQ

Archon
Agoniser
Shadow field
Soultrap
Ghost Plate Armour
Combat drugs
Haywire Grenades
WWP

Archon
Huskblade
Soul trap
ghost plate Armour
Combat drugs
WWP

Troops

10 Dark Eldar Warriors
1 x Splinter Cannon
Syrabite
GhostPlate Armour
Agoniser

20 Dark Eldar Warriors
2 x Dark Lances
Blaster
Syrabite
Agoniser
Ghost Plate Armour
Blast Pistol

Elites

Hekatrix BloodBrides
Razorflails
Hydra Gauntlets
Shardnet & Impailer
Syren
Blast Pistol
Agoniser

5 Incubi
Klavex
Bloodstone
Onslaught

Mandrakes
Night Fiend

Fast Attack

5 Hellions
Helliarch

i plan on adding 5 more hellions, as well as a Raider and a venom plus a Void Raven - just waiting for the right amount of money
 
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#2 ·
I would play 10+ games and proxy what you don't have before you spend another cent. 1 glaring thing that stopped me from really giving your list more then a once over is this:

Archon
Agoniser
Shadow field
Soultrap
Ghost Plate Armour
Combat drugs
Haywire Grenades
WWP

Soul trap and agoniser? Just proves you have no idea what you are doing.
 
#3 ·
really? soul trap allows me to double my strength, and the Agoniser allows me to ignore armour, AND wound on a 4+! it would be worse if i'd given him a Power Weapon, coz that means until i kill an IC, then i'm wounding Guardsmen on 4's, Marines on 5's and anyone tougher, on 6's! most armies have 2 HQ slots = 2 IC's (unless they have a reutine) which is why i have 2 Archons! double thew chance of killing a HQ on either side of the board - so is it really such a bad choice?
 
#4 · (Edited)
You don't have enough scoring units, have static warriors (these don't work well). Soul traps don't work with agonisers as already mentioned. Too many points in elites. Not enough anti tank.

I could go through the list and break it down, but there are problems all over, focus on increasing your number of scoring units first then we'll look at other stuff. What size is this? 1500?
 
#6 ·
You don't have enough scoring nits, have static warriors (these don't work well). Soul traps don't work with agonisers as already mentioned. Too many points in elites. Not enough anti tank.

I could go through the list and break it down, but there are problems all over, focus on increasing your number of scoring units first then we'll look at other stuff. What size is this? 1500?
150 short of 1500, aim for 2000 as mentioned, i aim to get at least one voidraven plus a raider (for the Bloodbrides!)
 
#7 ·
have worked out - for an 1800pt list all i need to add is another warriour squad - shredder, Splinter Cannon - Void Raven (4 Necrotoxin Missiles, Night Shields, Flickerfield) and change the Agoniser to an Electrocorossive Whip. there. more staying power - more troops squads - and anti-tank S9 AP2 Shots with 3+ wounding poisoned missiles with Large Blast! - problem solved
 
#8 ·
Hey, I'm going to go through your list and explain the problems with it, if anything I say doesn't make sense (or you just disagree) I will be happy to elaborate, this is of course your list and you can do whatever you like. My comments may seem harsh, but it is just easier and clearer if I am brutally honest in my critique. Nothing personal.

HQ

Archon
Agoniser
Shadow field
Soultrap
Ghost Plate Armour
Combat drugs
Haywire Grenades
WWP
The Ghost Plate is typically an unneeded expense as you have a shadowfield and it won't save you once that's gone. The Soultrap + Agoniser doesn't work as already stated.

Archon
Huskblade
Soul trap
ghost plate Armour
Combat drugs
WWP
2 Archons is OK, but if you are doing this you need less upgrades, again drop the Ghostplate.

Troops

10 Dark Eldar Warriors
1 x Splinter Cannon
Syrabite
GhostPlate Armour
Agoniser
This is not an assault unit primarily and so doesn't need an agoniser or ghost plate. If you try to use it as a primary assault unit you will be dissapointed. It does need a raider and posibly a balster. The raider gives you mobility and the blaster adds firepower.

20 Dark Eldar Warriors
2 x Dark Lances
Blaster
Syrabite
Agoniser
Ghost Plate Armour
Blast Pistol
Dark Lances are heavy weapons this means the squad cannot move and fire them. If you are moving at all you are therefore wasting your dark lance shots. The Blaster is a medium ranged assault weapon, it requires you to move. The Blast Pistol is a point blank range weapon which you will never ever use in a foot based squad, but really really requires you to move if you ever want even a half chance at using it. These things synergise poorly.

Ghost plate is not useful here as you will take wounds on things other than the sybarite first, typically. The agoniser is not useful as this is clearly not an assault unit.

I'm not sure what this is for, but it doesn't matter it can't do anyhting well. If you let me know what you want it to do I may be able to suggest a set up that will work.

Elites

Hekatrix BloodBrides
Razorflails
Hydra Gauntlets
Shardnet & Impailer
Syren
Blast Pistol
Agoniser
You don't want to mix your specials they end up being less effective as they do different things. Shardnets particularly don't play well with others. Razorflails and Hydra Gauntlets are both for damage output, Shardnets are defensive. 1 Shardnet does little on it's own, whilst 3 turns of units. Equally a Shardnet contributes nothing to a unit meant to kill stuff, decide what this squad is for then switch out to homogenous weapons.

The balst pistol is a waste of time, you will almost always fleet instead. If they don't ahve a raider they are dead.

5 Incubi
Klavex
Bloodstone
Onslaught
The bloodstone is a gigantic waste of points, Onslaught is nice but a bit pricey and not terribly useful on a unit that is already this killy. This squad needs a transport desperately.

Mandrakes
Night Fiend
How many?

Fast Attack

5 Hellions
Helliarch
This unit is OK, maybe add 1 more Hellion.

have worked out - for an 1800pt list all i need to add is another warriour squad - shredder, Splinter Cannon
Shredders are terrible as they have no AP, blasters are flat better, heck a Splinter rifle is often better.

Void Raven (4 Necrotoxin Missiles, Night Shields, Flickerfield)
Necro missiles are an unnecessary expense.

change the Agoniser to an Electrocorossive Whip.
That would make your strength matter indeed.

more staying power
Barely, you are still incredibly fragile as your units aren't in transports, so you are slow and easily taken apart at a distance.

- more troops squads -
True, but you also need your troop squads to be good.

and anti-tank S9 AP2 Shots
Not nearly enough you need a bare minimum of 14 (and that is low) functional Dark Light weapons in 1800, you have 4.

3+ wounding poisoned missiles with Large Blast!
Sound nice, not really worth it when you don't have enough stuff elsewhere.

- problem solved
Not yet, I'm afraid.
 
#9 ·
Hey, I'm going to go through your list and explain the problems with it, if anything I say doesn't make sense (or you just disagree) I will be happy to elaborate, this is of course your list and you can do whatever you like. My comments may seem harsh, but it is just easier and clearer if I am brutally honest in my critique. Nothing personal.



The Ghost Plate is typically an unneeded expense as you have a shadowfield and it won't save you once that's gone. The Soultrap + Agoniser doesn't work as already stated.



2 Archons is OK, but if you are doing this you need less upgrades, again drop the Ghostplate.



This is not an assault unit primarily and so doesn't need an agoniser or ghost plate. If you try to use it as a primary assault unit you will be dissapointed. It does need a raider and posibly a balster. The raider gives you mobility and the blaster adds firepower.



Dark Lances are heavy weapons this means the squad cannot move and fire them. If you are moving at all you are therefore wasting your dark lance shots. The Blaster is a medium ranged assault weapon, it requires you to move. The Blast Pistol is a point blank range weapon which you will never ever use in a foot based squad, but really really requires you to move if you ever want even a half chance at using it. These things synergise poorly.

Ghost plate is not useful here as you will take wounds on things other than the sybarite first, typically. The agoniser is not useful as this is clearly not an assault unit.

I'm not sure what this is for, but it doesn't matter it can't do anyhting well. If you let me know what you want it to do I may be able to suggest a set up that will work.



You don't want to mix your specials they end up being less effective as they do different things. Shardnets particularly don't play well with others. Razorflails and Hydra Gauntlets are both for damage output, Shardnets are defensive. 1 Shardnet does little on it's own, whilst 3 turns of units. Equally a Shardnet contributes nothing to a unit meant to kill stuff, decide what this squad is for then switch out to homogenous weapons.

The balst pistol is a waste of time, you will almost always fleet instead. If they don't ahve a raider they are dead.



The bloodstone is a gigantic waste of points, Onslaught is nice but a bit pricey and not terribly useful on a unit that is already this killy. This squad needs a transport desperately.



How many?



This unit is OK, maybe add 1 more Hellion.



Shredders are terrible as they have no AP, blasters are flat better, heck a Splinter rifle is often better.



Necro missiles are an unnecessary expense.



That would make your strength matter indeed.



Barely, you are still incredibly fragile as your units aren't in transports, so you are slow and easily taken apart at a distance.



True, but you also need your troop squads to be good.



Not nearly enough you need a bare minimum of 14 (and that is low) functional Dark Light weapons in 1800, you have 4.



Sound nice, not really worth it when you don't have enough stuff elsewhere.



Not yet, I'm afraid.
in answer to how many Mandrakes, it's a 5-strong squad. the 20 warriors are there to defend my base objective from anyone who tries to sneak razorbacks, deep strikes a LR near it! with 2 S8 AP2 2D6 Penertrating power shots, it'll sare Storm ravens away! the Blast pistol on the Syren in my Bloodbrides squad is not wasted, as who doesn't like a close range shot to soften up the foe? a S8 AP2 shot will help reduce a termie squad as they'll have to take a 5++ save - which can be unreliable - also the necrotoxin missiles are handy, cause i can shoot at different units and they will count as defensive wepons - besides, the moonscythe missiles are more expensive than the four necro's!
 
#10 ·
i'm going to add 5 more helions, i aim for a 20-strong squad to deep-strike behind lines, unleash 40 SX AP5 shots, and hit and run when charged out of combat to assualt next turn.

yes 2o is needed as this unit (coupled with my 20 DE Warriors) will be the fire magnets, allowing the rest of the force to arrive unmolested and ready to kill.

your probrably wondering what my game plan is, thrown down a noose and draw it tight - the mandrakes are there to "herd" my opponent towards my guns - the 20-strong Hellions will help - then the bloodbrides pop out of the WWP and my warriors also pop out of the other to funnel them inwards, then, and only then will i unleash both archons in combat. any units who deep-strike will get chopped up by the Hellions and herded of the board
 
#11 · (Edited)
5 Madrakes is an OK harrassment unit.

Lances only use 1D6 to pen, they are not Meltas. Additionally they will not scare anyone away from their objective. Are you scared of 2 lascannons? Also what about all the other points about that 20 man squads loadout (i.e. Blasters and pistols and agonisers etc.)?

I know why blast pistols can be useful I also know they are 6" range and often that will not be fired as you will fleet to gain the assault instead, but keep it if you wish :). The lack of a transport is the big problem.

Necrotoxin missiles can only be fired at the same target as the rest of the vehicle, they don't have a special rule saying otherwise (unless I missed it) and as such are going to pretty useless on your anti tank platform.

There are still alot more points I raised which you need to address, not least your lack of anti tank.

Little bit of crossposting there, you answered some questions I had whilst I was posting this. A 20 strong deepstriking unit will mishap alot! And not turn up all that reliably. It is also massively expensive and not scoring. Might I suggest switching one of your Archons for Sliscus and using soem Deep Striking Kabalite Warriors or Trueborn to compliment say a 10 man or two 5-7 man squads of hellions? Trying to keep in theme here.
 
#17 ·
here is my revised list - may add the Duke for Planetstrike!

HQ
Baron S.

Archon
Electrocorossive Whip
Soul Trap
Combat Drugs
Shadow Field

Elites

5 Incubi
Klavex
Onslaught
Bloodstone - am keeping this as i mainly play against Marines!

5 Mandrakes
Night Fiend

Hekatrix BloodBrides
Syren
Blast Pistol
Agoniser
Razor flails
Hydra Gauntlets
Shardnet & Impailer

Troops

5 Hellions
Helliarch

10 Dark Eldar Warriors
Splinter Cannon
Syrabite
Agoniser

20 Dark Eldar Warriors
2 x Dark Lances
Blaster
Syrabite
Blast Pistol
Power weapon? - possible

Ideal section

Heavy Support
Void Raven Bomber
Night Shields
Flicker Field
4 x MoonScythe/ShatterShard/Necrotoxin

Raider
Dark Lance
Flicker Field

Raider
Dissintegrator Cannon
Flicker Field
Splinter racks

Venom
2 x Splinter cannon
Retro fire Jets
Chain Snares

Chronos Parasite Engine
Spirit Syphon, Vortex and Probe

Ravager
3x Dark Lances
Night Shield
Flicker Field

15 more Hellions (to form the 20 - strong squad)

any more critique? if there is, then it's welcome! :p
 
#19 ·
got a correction to make, the 20-srong DE Warrior Squad is being reduced to a 10-man squad and a 5/6 man squad with a Syabrite with a Power Weapon, Blast Pisol and a warior with Blaster

this squad will distract the foe for long enough, i hope!
 
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