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  1. #1
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    1750 Balanced force

    O haizz! I spent the whole day reading dozens of guides and shit to improve my list. I ended up with this.

    IMPROVED LIST AT BOTTOM
    HQ:
    Archon 175p
    +Huskblade
    +Soul-trap
    +Shadow field
    +PGL
    +Blast pistol


    Haemonculus 80p
    +Agoniser
    +Liquifier Gun


    Elites:
    7 Incubi 254p
    Klaivex
    +Onslaught
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield


    Troops:
    10 Kabalite Warriors 130pts
    +Blaster
    +Dark Lance


    10 Kabalite Warriors 130pts
    +Blaster
    +Dark Lance


    9 Wracks 200p
    +Liquifier Gun
    Acothyst
    +Agoniser
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield


    10 Wracks 220p
    +2 Liquifier Guns
    Acothyst
    +Agoniser
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield


    Fast Attack:
    3 Reavers 78p
    +Heat Lance


    3 Reavers 78p
    +Heat Lance


    Heavy Support:
    Ravager 115p
    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances


    Ravager 115p
    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances


    Razorwing Jetfighter 175p
    +Disintegrator Cannons
    +Splinter Cannon
    +4 Necrotoxin missiles

    1750p

    Model count: 54
    Vehicle count: 6

    Im a little concerned of my anti-infantry but I guess it'll be just fine.

    Also I added Klaivex with Onslaught only 'cause I had spare 30 points and I didn't find any other way to spend them. Will the unit (Archon with Incubis) be too deadly? Ideally I'd want the combat to last two rounds (my and enemy's turn) so enemy couldn't fire them.

    The Razorwing Fighter is an unit I really want in the army. Should I eguip it with Flickerfield / Night Shields? It's going to stay at 36" at all times and, if possible, take cover.

    PS
    Wracks are going to be converted from Dryad and Warrior bits. Any better suggestions?

    I've also got Wyches but I see no reason to use them over Wracks. Could anyone give me a good reason to use Wyches?

    Last edited by Albifrons; February 1st, 2011 at 14:22.

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  3. #2
    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    188 (x4)

    Here's a modified version with comments in red. Mostly I cut down on upgrades and put 2 more raiders in. They don't need to actually carry the squads they go with they're mostly for shielding your incubi/wrack raiders and ravagers and providing another mobile DL.

    HQ:
    Archon 175p
    +Huskblade
    +Soul-trap
    +Shadow field
    +PGL
    +Blast pistol

    Haemonculus 65p
    +Venom blade
    +Liquifier Gun

    Elites:
    5 Incubi 180pts
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield
    they were serious overkill before even without the archon, this is much more reasonable and still very killy

    Troops:
    10 Kabalite Warriors 200pts
    +Blaster
    +Dark Lance
    Raider w/Flickerfield

    10 Kabalite Warriors 200pts
    +Blaster
    +Dark Lance
    Raider w/Flickerfield

    9 Wracks 180p
    +Liquifier Gun
    Acothyst
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield
    dropped agonizer since he loses the +1A for 2 CCWs if he takes it

    10 Wracks 200p
    +2 Liquifier Guns
    Acothyst
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield
    same as above

    Fast Attack:
    6 Reavers 156p
    +2 Heat Lances
    Combined these into one squad to cut down on KPs

    Heavy Support:
    Ravager 115p
    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances

    Ravager 115p
    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances

    Razorwing Jetfighter 155p
    +Disintegrator Cannons
    +Splinter Cannon
    no need for necro toxin

    1741p
    The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed

  4. #3
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    116 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    HQ:
    Archon 175p
    +Huskblade
    +Soul-trap
    +Shadow field
    +PGL
    +Blast pistol
    This is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    Haemonculus 80p
    +Agoniser
    +Liquifier Gun
    I like this with the agoniser, unlike bugs. Keep him as is I'd say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    Elites:
    7 Incubi 254p
    Klaivex
    +Onslaught
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield
    Way too powerful. Bugs' suggestions are solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    Troops:
    10 Kabalite Warriors 130pts
    +Blaster
    +Dark Lance


    10 Kabalite Warriors 130pts
    +Blaster
    +Dark Lance
    Sorry, but these units are bad. Dark Lances and Blasters don't mix. One wnats you to be mobile, the other stationary. It just doesn't work and wastes alot of points you could spend on raiders. Either a dark alnce or a blaster, never both. Also + raiders is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    9 Wracks 200p
    +Liquifier Gun
    Acothyst
    +Agoniser
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield
    Drop the Agoniser here, you already have one on the Haemie and could use the points elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    10 Wracks 220p
    +2 Liquifier Guns
    Acothyst
    +Agoniser
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield
    I like the Agoniser here Power weapon > +1 Attack against marines. In fact its twice as effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    Fast Attack:
    3 Reavers 78p
    +Heat Lance


    3 Reavers 78p
    +Heat Lance
    I prefer these as you have them as two separate units, although it is adding a kill point, it allows you to move them separately, reduces their target priority and lets you target multiple enemy vehicles, which is what these are for, clearly, in this list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    Heavy Support:
    Ravager 115p
    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances


    Ravager 115p
    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances
    Solid

    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    Razorwing Jetfighter 175p
    +Disintegrator Cannons
    +Splinter Cannon
    +4 Necrotoxin missiles
    You don't need the necrotoxins.

    Not bad overall.

  5. #4
    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    188 (x4)

    Just as far as the wrack agonizer goes against marines, yes it's better than his base weapon but your paying 20 points to go from killing an average of .33 (.5 if they get FC) marines to killing .75, not worth it in my opinion. Also the venom blade seems like a better choice for the haemie to me as well, cheap and he gets the re-roll to wound when charging marines (VB kills .65 Agonizer kills 1 on the charge). And against anything less than marines the gaps get much closer.

    Other than that I think the differences in our suggestions are mostly just play style.
    The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed

  6. #5
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    116 (x4)

    I agree mate mostly down to playstyle. It's not just marines though its tyranid MCs and terminators, as well as wraithlords and such. All viable units for wracks and the 20 points allowing you to ignore their save just always seems worth it to me. My acothyst usually kills only slightly less than the rest of the squad combined. It's not a big difference, but I've found it worth it given the number of things with 2+ saves. Same reasoning with the haemie. I just like to have a solid number of power weapons in an army, and for me I feel that having less than 3-4 squads with a power weapon leaves you too open to problems with terminators and the like. Additonaly the power weapon removes Feel no Pain from things such as other wracks or plague marines, which makes a big difference.

  7. #6
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    Thanks for replies some good stuff. So here's the new improved list? How's it looking?

    HQ: 255
    Archon 175p

    +Huskblade
    +Soul-trap
    +Shadow field
    +PGL
    +Haywire grenades
    +Combat drugs


    Haemonculus 80p

    +Agoniser
    +Liquifier gun


    Elites:
    5 Incubi 180p

    Raider
    +Flickerfield


    Troops:
    10 Kabalite Warriors 185pts

    +Blaster
    +Splinter cannon
    Raider
    +Flickerfield

    10 Kabalite Warriors 185pts
    +Blaster
    +Splinter cannon
    Raider
    +Flickerfield

    9 Wracks 180p
    +Liquifier Gun
    Acothyst
    Raider
    +Flickerfield


    10 Wracks 220p
    +2 Liquifier Guns
    Acothyst
    +Agoniser
    Raider
    +Flickerfield


    Fast Attack:
    3 Reavers 78p

    +Heat Lance


    3 Reavers 78p
    +Heat Lance


    Heavy Support:
    Ravager 115p

    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances


    Ravager 115p
    +Flickerfield
    +3 Lances


    Razorwing Jetfighter 155p

    +Disintegrator Cannons
    +Splinter Cannon

    1746p
    Model count: 52
    Vehicle count: 8
    Last edited by Albifrons; February 1st, 2011 at 12:48.

  8. #7
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    116 (x4)

    You are right at the bottom end of OK for lances etc. against vehicles (you will struggle with full Mech lists a little) but still just on target. Otherwise looks very playable, give it a spin and see how you like it.

  9. #8
    Senior Member madmek's Avatar
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    full mech guard are the worst to play against, others are ok

    however I do have issues with this

    Originally Posted by Albifrons
    Elites:
    7 Incubi 254p
    Klaivex
    +Onslaught
    Raider 70p
    +Flickerfield

    Way too powerful

    errr i would just like to chuck in my experience with a unit roughtly this size (with an archon attached with the grenade launcher). they are not way too powerful until you gain pain points then the fun starts... a 5 man unit is a little too small especially against my regular opponents who would turn it to mush at the earliest opportunity. with a 7 man squad you have a bit of 'critical mass' as it were to kill things quickly and make a general mess of anything you come into contact with, providing you judge the situation to your advantage (timing with these things is a bit important). without the archon with the grenade launcher they would be next too useless as assualting cover would be a nightmare.

    overall though i don't see much wrong with the list, it is pretty well balanced.

  10. #9
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    116 (x4)

    With a seven man squad, plus Klaivex, plus Archon on the charge against MEQ you kill

    Archon: 0.66*0.5*6=2
    Klaivex: 0.66*0.33*6=1.32 (or0.66*0.5*4=1.32)
    Incubi: 0.66*0.5*18=6

    Total 9.32 Kills, far too close to the magic 10.

    With a five man squad plus Archon on the charge against MEQ you kill

    Archon: 0.66*0.5*6=2
    Incubi: 0.66*0.5*15=5

    Total 7 Kills

    In return you get a maximum of 8 attacks (attacking assault marines)

    0.5*0.66*0.33*8= 8/9

    In the following round of combat, assuming you have lost one

    Archon: 0.66*0.5*5= 1.66
    Incubi: 0.66*0.5*8= 2.66

    Total 4.33 easily taking out the remaing three, with a bit of play if they got lucky (Against standard marines or scouts this is even more likely as they won't have killed an inc usually).
    Last edited by karantalsis; February 1st, 2011 at 14:38.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albifrons View Post
    Fast Attack:
    3 Reavers 78p

    +Heat Lance

    Model count: 52
    Vehicle count: 8
    Just want to point out 2 things. Many of us have spent time with the reaver jetbikes, and if you are going to run then, the tried and trusted number is a squad of 6. No more, no less. Personally I think they are an expensive fire magnet that is as fragile as a raider, and not as effective, but you will have to discover that for yourself. There are lots of ranting posts on why they are crap, and you could be spending your points elsewhere, but the same could be said about hellions and I've used them to amazing effectiveness.

    The other thing I wanted to point out is I applaud you on looking closely at your model count. This is extremely important. I challenge you to make 3 more radically different lists and look at that same statistic at the end. This will give you a ballpark on what you are comfortable with playing, and should rapidly make you a better player. Always remember you should be creating units with single tasks in mind, and keeping your model count at levels that complete these tasks will give you a baseline for judging how to best arrange your army to get better killing effectiveness per point spent.

    A side note, while MSU with warriors and wyches is bad because they don't have the 3+ armor save that marines have, Wracks can work as MSU. Don't feel the need to load out ~10 wracks in a raider as this is like loading out 10 marines that can't shoot. Those points can be better spent elsewhere.

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