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  1. #1
    Member Arsenal's Avatar
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    2000 Friendly/Garage List

    2000 Friendly/Garage List
    This is a list based off the models I currently own. I am just trying to make something that will be fun to play against all comers, as my group has a player of just about every army type. This breakdown has 11 lances and the scourges for taking down heavy stuff, the trubeborn for hunting annoyances like Tau Pathfinders and their damned markerlights, and four decent, though soft, scoring units.


    HQ
    Archon - shadowfield, agonizer, blast pistol (rides with the incubi)

    Haemonculus - poison blade, liquefier gun (rides with the 9 woman Wych squad)

    Elite
    9 Incubi
    Raider – FF

    5 Trueborn – 3 shardcarbine, 2 splinter cannon
    Venom – FF, extra splinter cannon

    Troops
    8 Wyches – 1 hydra gauntlet, haywire grenades
    1 Hekatrix – agonizer, blast pistol, phantasm grenades
    Raider – FF

    9 Wyches – 1 hydra gauntlet, haywire grenades
    1 Hekatrix – agonizer, blast pistol, phantasm grenades
    Raider - FF

    10 Kabalite Warriors – 1 dark lance, 1 Blaster

    10 Kabalite Warriors – 1 dark lance, 1 Blaster

    Fast
    5 scourges – 1 haywire, 1 heat lance

    6 Reavers – 2 cluster caltrops

    5 Hellions

    Heavy
    Ravager – FF

    Ravager - FF


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  3. #2
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    ok.. im being tought how to give critisism at uni at the moment, and were told to use a SH*T sandwich, ie: good stuff/critisism or improvements/good stuff.. so ill talk about the good bits of your list, then the bits i think could be improved on then the good ways to play the army

    now i know your on model restriction so do forgive me if i suggest things you dont have.. but i dont know what spare models your using (and you can always proxy)

    So, what i like: Ravagers with FF.. win, 6 reavers with caltrops = win, trueborn + venom = win, Archon = Win, Heamy = win, wyches = win,

    now to what i think could help:

    firstly i notice there are alot of points in upgrades like blast pistols, (And i personally dont think they are worth it at only 6" range) so id drop all the blast pistols = 45 points to spend elsewhere.. more on trimming id say that you really DONT need that many incubi, they are costy and id drop at least 2 of them, if not 3 or 4 as you have the archon in there, also the trueborn squad, often the 3 shardcarbines will be out of range, so id drop 2 of them so you only have 3 in there (2 SC). both of those trimms saving you 100pts (3 incubi dropped). so i can see a whole new squad out of the 145 we have saved.. (assuming you have the models and the upgrades are not just there to make up points)

    other things of note, is id give your archon a phantasm grenade launcher (As the incubi need it) and also why not give him combad drugs while your at it (FnP on the incubi to start with is horrifying if you get it) as it is a cheap and usefull upgrade, id consider putting your FF on the wyches raiders into NS as well because they (at close range) will be often shot at by rapid fire weapons, you can nullify all or half of that shooting by adding 6" to their range, (and if moving fast you get your 4+ anyway)

    i noticed the 1st wych squad is only 8 strong.. i id say ramp it to full strenght, but i assume its that way due to model restictions, do it if you can, but as with all of this its just help, so use it the best you can and adapt it for the army and models you have

    i feel like the hellions are just there for being there's sake, and a unit of 5 are not going to be that effective, combined with only T3 5+ saves they will just be free Killpoints for your opponent, so either: ramp them up with the spare points to a decent unit size, or scrap them and use the points towards 6 more bikes, or more warriors (more warriors is always good). a simmilar thing with the scourges, id either put the same weapons on them and possibly double the unit size. or scrap them (alternative is the 2 heat lance suicide squad) also i think they work nicest with the haywire blasters personally. the warrior footsloggers.. i can see what your going for with these guys, but from experience if im using footsloggers i always want 15+ in my unit, as theyre more vulnerable. so id possibly combine them (keeping 2 DL's) to sit them as a blob squad on a home objective, an alternative is to ramp both up to 20, making for 2 more lances and some hard hitting home troops in a more defensive position. id also say that as theyre standing still they could live without the blasters if you want, the extra 30points could help alot elsewhere.

    finally ill talk about the way it would play (ill look at it as it is.. but remember that with changes the units will behave differently):

    there is a nice hammer and anvil theme in this list.. with the warriors sitting on the home turf laying down covering fire while the wyches incubi bikes and ravagers get up close and personal/flank.

    so keep the men in cover near an objective.. or high up (so they dont get assaulted) to continually lay down fire both DL and when the enemy is closer splinter fire.

    it might be worth keeping a wych unit behind to counter assault anything that gets too close to your warriors, wyches are brill for stopping units in their tracks and saying NO, less good for acutally killing, but you have incubi and an archon for that. what id advise is possibly using your incubi with a wych unit, tie them up, then assault with the hard hitters. possibly after flying up the flank on your paper aeroplanes.

    id use the support squads: bikes and trueborn, to take out high priority targets, IE: dedicated combat troops/Heavy weapon teams/troops on objectives and also to soften up a unit if you think it will need it before you assault it to death, keep your ravagers out of range of short range anti tank and targeting their anti tank first, if thay cant kill you.. you have the tactical win. as for hellions: use them as an inbetween of wyches and incubi, sort of ccb support (they can shoot ok as well) the scourges as AT primerily nutralising tanks you want to do nothing for a turn or two then later turning their eye on fleshy troops units they can pick apart with shardcarbines.

    the wych unit with the heamy has 11 wounds AND FnP AND 4++ invul saves.. so is going to be Immense at stopping hard ass units in their tracks.. if there is a unit your scared of.. send these guys their way and watch them sit there for 3 turns untill your incubi run into them with Furious charge S5 I6 power weapon DEATH

    apart from that its a nicely balanced list with things that can do everything and change to suit the occation, (only hard point i think would be either a FULL mech list (slightly under the 1 lance per 100 ideal) or a FULL swarm list(as no blasts - only heamy flamer) but its good)

    hope this helps
    Will x

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  5. #3
    Member Arsenal's Avatar
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    Wow! Thanks for the super detailed comment. It's super super appreciated.

    You were right about the Hellions, I just had extra points and models so I lumped them in. I am going to take your advice to heart and do the following:

    -Drop all the blast pistols
    -Add phantasms and combat drugs to the Archon
    -Cull down the Incubi squad to 6
    -Cull down the Trueborn to 3 (Still keeping 2 cannons + 1 carbine)
    -Combine the footslogging warriors into one large unit, still keeping the DLs
    -Change the Scourges to two haywires

    This should give me a fair few points, and when I have chance to dump these changes into army builder I will see what I have to work with. I can surely up the Hellion squad as I have 10 models total. I can also invest in more warriors, the only problem is I convert all mine, combined with fantasy corsairs for their wicked cloaks, so the price per unit in real cash is pretty much doubled.

    One note, and two questions.

    The note is the Wych squad was at 8 because of the Hekatrix and Haemy eating up the other two seats on the Raider.

    This leads into my first question, with my extra points is it worth getting two more Haemys? One would be for the other Wych squad, and one for the blob of footslogging warriors.

    My second and last question is, what is your opinion on a small footslogging band of trueborn with two DLs as just a small pest unit?

    Thanks again for all your input and help!

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    No worries, im glad to know you appreciate it

    ahh, so in the numbers you didnt include your upgraded leader, im used to writing it as 10xwyches + heka +etc.. in your case 9xwyches +heka +agoniser (heamy in unit). makes sence, so both are 10 men strong

    2 more heamys might work well, it would add alot of durability to the list that people dont expect from a DE list, the way to think about it though is this: the 3 heamys are min of 150, with Liquifiers and venom blades your looking at 200ish (ideal build id say) so would you rather give your guys FnP (sort of doubling the number of wounds) or just take twice as many warriors (i know you cant because of restictions but its an example) giving not only the same durability in that unit, an extra capturing choice and double firepower as well. another choice would be a 3rd wych unit instead, or depending on the spare points another 6man unit of incubi in raider. The heamys are nice for what they do.. but you have to maximise their capabilities, 65 pts for FnP is NOT worth it in my opinion (esp when BA get Furious Charge as well and in a 6" bubble for the same) So you need to be utilising the FnP and him to their best. He works well in a blob squad because the blob squad often loses out on CC capabilites, he gives them a second leader like figure who (though not amazing) gives them a little more punch to deal with when they get assaulted by enemy FA choices (also.. if he dies, they still keep FnP) the other option is to start him with a squad (like hellions and then join a wych squad to give them a flamer and or another PW.

    good things i think that would augment your list are:
    Reavers, brilliant MEQ and Swarm killer (lots of S4's on swarm is good, and the Caltrops often take out 1 or 2 marines each.. which to marines, is alot) and on top you can use them for cover infront of warriors etc, because they get their 3+ save - oh and FnP makes them sick
    another ravager (cant have enough.. even using a DL ravager against marines is effective with 32pts worth if death per round it only takes 3 rounds to be equal, and you keep tank hunting use
    actually now i think of it.. WRACKS!!!!! they would be lovely as a second base unit. for 100 pts (or 120 if you want flamers - id sway towards no because theyre not getting close and personal so much) you get 10 T4 FNP (+cover save) wounds.. that if he assaults.. are still pretty nifty, you loose out on the shooting, but it makes a nice synergy with the warrior blob one shooty one cc based and tough. plus you could afford to have 2 of them, even better is that because of your heamy they are capturing, so late game you can run them across to close objectives, relying on their toughness to keep them contesting/capturing. i really like this option, the other choice is to raider them as yet another CC unit, the flamers in this case are Devistating! even better vs high T opponents (in that case give the leader an agoniser).
    more warriors is never a bad thing, as with wyches. but keep it balanced, i like the versitility your list currently provides.
    Talos/Chronos? this might be a nice idea, your opponent will be so busy watching the incubi munching through his units and the fast things flying at his face at 200x10e3 miles an hour he wont notice the talos slowly drifing up his flank, if he does.. its a great fire magnet where he will waste turns shooting into it, turns he isnt shooting your other stuff and its cheap. the cronos will give you ace ccb units with his token giving tactics (usually 3 or 4 tokens in a game so far for me.. and at 100pts.. ill take that) its also a great MEQ and swarm killer because of the AP3 templates and large blast, also ppl dont really know about it yet, so dont know how to deal with it (plus he gives himself FNP to be tough as)

    hmm i cant really comment on the 86 pt 2 DL squad.. it seems fair value, but it is an easy kill for the opponent if he wants to rid it. but at the same time its a fire magnet because he has to take the time to do so, saving you more expensive units from the pain, you will have to play around with this as i have no experience seeing it or using it, i may try it for giggles, and learning. remember, you dont just want to make back your points on something, you want to at least DOUBLE them, im only happy if my 100 pt squad kills 200 pts of stuff (there are intangable things as well, like objectives and psycological benifits: talos for example often does little, apart from being shot to peices, but in that time iv set up the rest of the gaming board and my army to destroy him, so though it did nothing, the talos won me the game?? make sence?)

    anyway.. im loosing the plot here haha feel free to ask more questions if you have any, as i say. im not an expert, just a fan of, dark eldar
    will x

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