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Hey everyone, this is my first dark eldar army. I've done quite a bit of reading on various sites (tacticas, army lists, etc) and I think I've come up with a solid list. Before I start working on getting models and painting, I thought I'd get some feedback first though. My tactics are to flat out the wyches turn one, hopefully putting them in assault range of something, and moving the warriors 12" to shoot and harass. The haemy will then go around with his flamer in the raider thinning out enemy squads for as long as possible. The baron will go with the beastmasters for the stealth rule (mainly for cover) and grenades. I see them mainly sitting around midfield in cover, waiting for any enemy assault units to approach my ravagers/warrior raiders/venoms and then assaulting. If the baron would keep the beastmasters from reaching during assault (since he isn't cavalry), he'll simply leave the unit and do something else while they demolish their target. The ravagers will do what they do best; sit back and pop dangerous-looking tanks. The trueborn will go tank hunting. If I go second, I'll probably leave stuff in reserve to prevent getting my vehicles ripped to pieces.
So, here's the list:
4 kabalite trueborn (x2)
-2 splinter cannons
3 kabalite trueborn
-2 splinter cannons
5 kabalite warriors (x5)
-2 splinter cannons
-9 haywire grenades
-1 shardnet and impaler
-1 is hekatrix with an agoniser
-4 razorwing flocks
Total: 2001 points
I know I'm one point over, but I don't think that will be a big deal.
Thanks for any comments or suggestions; like I said, I'm still new, so I'd love to hear some feedback.
Last edited by rozgarth; April 21st, 2011 at 23:59.
No comments? The army has been modified also.
The list is okay, he doesn't seem to have a lot of synergy with itself though. The army wants to move forward and pop tanks, but you only have two units that actually want to attack the stuff inside. The venoms will lay down some major hate, but if you've got something like Orks in the wreckage, their cheap models suddenly get a decent save and they can return fire and take you down with out too much trouble.
Against something like marines, you'll be able to pop their rhinos with out too much issue, then kill 3-6 marines and then you've got all these juicy targets for their bolters and melta guns because you have to get the venoms with trueborn so close that it becomes risky. Remember, due to the way the rules combine, melta guns get +2 to the damage result against opened topped vehicles, like venoms. So if it pens, which is has a good chance to, the BEST you can do is weapon destroyed. On a 4+ it explodes. Not great odds.
The beasts might be getting some cover sometimes, but if your opponent has some mobility or deep striking ability, it won't matter. They'll die just as fast. Beasts work best when paired with a WWP.
And at 2k pts, running 8 vehicles just isn't going to last. If your opponent can take out 4 of your transports on turn one, your entire army is crippled to the point of failure. And at 2k points, it would be pretty easy to do that due to how flimsy our vehicles are.
Although, with all these being said, I do believe the list would do fine in casual games. You'd win some, you'd lose some. No single item in the list is particularly weak, excluding maybe the beasts with barron, and they will all be effective at their given task, they just do not work well together.
A list like this would need to trade out some of the close range shooting for some close combat to tie stuff up so it can't destroy your vehicles as easy. I belive switching out the barron and beasts for some grotesques and a liquifier hammy in a raider would greatly help this list. Maybe switch out some of the troops for some wracks squads.
I really hope this doesn't discourage you, it seems you've got the idea of how to make effective units and how to use the units, but not quite how to combine them together to work perfectly.
"Venoms should be able to lay down some major fire." With a total of 96 poisoned shots from venoms alone across the board, I don't understand how I should be able to lay down major fire yet struggle to kill stuff inside of transports. And since when did orks have decent saves?
Second, I don't plan to have the venoms that close to bolter range. They outrange bolters by twelve inches. Marines can move six inches a turn. Most likely, I'll disembark the trueborn into cover and have them move forward to pop transports keeping my anti-infantry, longer-range venoms "safe" (or as safe as they can be with their crappy armor). Melta guns should *never* even be in the vicinity of my transports. How a 12", 6" melta weapon should be able to hit a transport shooting up to 36" away I fail to see. Meanwhile, my ravagers should be disabling as much anti-vehicle weaponry as possible on my opponent's end of the board--I don't need to wreck or explode an enemy vehicle; as long as they can't shoot, they can't hurt me when it's their shooting phase.
The beasts also have 4+ invulnerable saves due to the khymera, and the squad has a total of 28 wounds. They should live awhile, especially if my ravagers and other anti-tank have neutralized my opponent's most dangerous threats. Besides, I *want* my opponent to shoot at my beastmasters for the reasons above. Every gun aimed at the beastmasters is a gun that could have been aimed at my paper-quality transports. And, as the only footslogging unit on the field, I'm expecting them to draw fire (I'm praying for it anyway).
I have 9 transports along with 3 ravagers. I don't know where you got 8 vehicles from (3 trueborn venoms, 5 warrior venoms, 1 wych raider, 3 ravagers).
The beasts with baron I think will actually be a strong point. With the +1 to deployment, the baron will help make sure that I get the alpha strike. He also grants better cover saves and grenades to my beastmasters. The beastmaster unit itself should draw a lot of fire; I want it to. That way my other stuff has a higher chance of living longer. I don't consider them a weak point at all. When taken into context with the rest of the army, I think they supplement it nicely.
I am a little worried about only delivering 1 unit of wyches, but I think they should do fantastic. With the ability to possibly assault first turn due to fleet, feel no pain from the haemy, and combat drugs, they should do their job nicely. The haywire grenades will also help to disable vehicles up close to the enemy's line. Wracks I think are good, but I prefer wyches. The lack of fleet on wracks hurts them in my opinion, along with their lack of drugs. In a different army I'd take them, but if I was to take any other close combat unit, I would try to take more wyches (or incubi, but I'm not keen on dropping any of my trueborn). Grotesques just cost too much in my opinion; I like the unit, but in my army I just don't think they'd fit. Plus, I'd have to lose the trueborn, and if I did that, I'd prefer to buy incubi over grotesques.
Thanks for the critique. I've replied, maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I explained my army better now so you have a better idea of what I plan to do. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just don't see my army having most of the problems you see it having.
Thread was glitched. *fixed*
Last edited by rozgarth; April 27th, 2011 at 22:14.
No one else has any feedback? Good, bad, ugly?
Ugly. But not necessarily bad. I can see some improvements though. Replace the trueborn with blasters with dark lances, that way they can stay on the transports and all of the weapons on that transport have a 36 inch range. Yes, it's fewer shots but more protected. Throw night shields on it and it really outranges anything except lascannons and missiles.
More vehicles is a good idea but not necessary. I would probably cut a unit is trueborn and add ten more warriors in a raider. Or maybe try to get another ravager.
Personally, I'd lose the beastmaster. It's just my preference, but I kinda hate them.
Okay, so you think I need more dark lances for starters? I can't get another ravager because I already have three; same for the ten man warrior squad. I already have six troops, unless you mean I should also drop one of my five man warrior squads to make room. Lastly, out of curiosity, why don't you like beastmasters?
Thanks for the feedback
Sorry. I didn't read your list correctly at all. It's not that you need more dark lances, but why get close enough for blasters when you can kite around out of range?Originally Posted by rozgarth
The beastmaster hate is just preference. I don't think they fit the DE army, I think the models are either lame or ugly. They lack elegance. It's just me.
Okay, so you think if I trade out the blasters on the trueborn for longer range dark lances I should be okay?
Last edited by rozgarth; April 29th, 2011 at 02:12.