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1850 competetive

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1K views 7 replies 4 participants last post by  El_Jairo 
#1 · (Edited)
New list at bottom please put up with thread length :)
 
#2 · (Edited)
I might be handy to tell your general strategy with this list.

I don't think this list is really competitive for the following reasons:
1) Archon is really too expensive, sure as long as he rolls 2+ he's fine, Husk Blade is a very big investment, I personally use Electrocorrosive whip to get the best of 2w IC.
Haywire Grenades aren't really necessary if you can double you strength multiple times.
2) You only have 5 Skimmers, these will be blast to pieces very quick, you don't take the SC upgrade on venoms, which is really one of their best features.
All these foot slogging models, they don't fit in a non WWP list. In 5th you need the speed or you don't have much contribution. You could have one foot-slogging unit to come out of reserves to claim you home objective but otherwise it is a long walk and T3 and 5+ save isn't going to help you survive long enough.
3) You never bought the squad leader upgrade, this is very bad for leadership, at least wyches and wracks shoud take this option, hydra Gauntlets are a cool model but rule wise not that cool.
4) Incubi are very cool on paper but you should note their squishiness, best to use them in a squad of 4 and add an Archon with PGL, they lack grenades! If you take too many they will chew their target and be out in the open, even 3+ save with FNP isn't that great these days on T3. There are simple too many ways to kill them effectively.
5) Mandrakes, they suck without the pain token, so I reckon the Heamy joins them? There are still a sub-par unit.
6) Reavers can be cool but I find them too expensive for their survivability. They might work in a list which puts a lot of pressure on the opponent so they is no good choice for the opponent to shoot. So a mechanised list.
7) 13 Darklight weapons doesn't pull it. You should read this thread on list constructing. It really pins down some major points.
8 ) Talos on foot isn't really fast enough, I tried a list with two and they didn't see much combat. The TL-HB is really too good to pass on and run but this gives your opponent enough time to ignore it just long enough.

It's not that only one build can be competitive but you don't have enough Ranged Haywire to claim it to be spammed: you should look at Scourges for that.

Just take a look at some list from Gardeth or other players who have success at big tournaments to get an idea on what works in competitive environments.

Personally I find venom spam shooting with some counter assault most effective. I used to play wych cult but they lost some of their cool rules and most specially they have to close the gap with the opponent real fast and this prevents them to use one of our greatest upgrades: Night Shields. It took me a while to take them too on my vehicles but now I've seen their power again, in combination with FF, it is awesome to see opponents come to you!
I must say Wyches with an Heamonculus can make a hell of a tar pit unit but not much more than that: they kill of enemies very slow, only Painbringer drugs changes this. My new first choice are the wracks, together with they LG, they kill of so many enemies, you should add the haemy to give them Furious Charge at the start, very scary for T4!
 
#4 ·
If you want competitive I have some problems with the list;
- Klaviex power: Onslaught. Drop to 4.
- Replace your Succubi with an Archon with PGL or else you risk having your incubi bounce off your opponents units which they normally would destroy. Your basic Archon(Ago,SW and PGL) should do it.
- Remove void Raven. So many points into a model that isn't that much better than a ravager, well, certainly not 100 points better.
- Remove Sybarites with agonisers. Your setup leads me to believe you want to stay at a distance and shoot. 60 points better spent elsewhere.
- Remove one trueborn and get the 4th member.
- Your wyches should have haywire grenades. Always.
Assuming you kit your 3rd ravager like the rest of them and add the PGL archon you have around 130 points to play with. Infact, I think you'll have room for 5 scourages with haywire blasters. A good trade-off, I'd say.
- If you find the points, get your haemie a Venom blade. Only a few points but will make him contribute in combat rather than just be a pain token.
Some personal preferences. I really like the demi-klaives as it is a very versitile weapon. Do you want few good strength attacks or more but basic strength attacks? Gives you more controll of the outcome. While the bloodstone is nice it is likely you're going either fleet to get to combat or be in combat. That said, there are times where it very good but hopefully you won't kill so many models you're suddenly out of range, standing out in the open. Not a comfortable place for a 4 strong incubi unit. They have a good save but T3 will ensure you'll take so many wounds you're unlikely to save enough of them. For me a champion with demi-klaives is a no-brainer. While only one wound the guy have very good WS, I and good number of attacks(which is another reason you want an archon with PGL).

Cheers, D.
 
#5 ·
Hi Sean,

to make your list more competitive I agree with most points brought by the Danceman but I want to add the following remarks:

3 troops in 1850 seems too light to me, sure you have picked bigger variants but I would be more confident with 4 troops (all being 5x Warrior w/ Blaster if must be). This is where 9x Wracks with LG and Acot+ are very competitive.
I'm not really a fan of the 10 Warriors with DL and Blaster, because this will make you want to hold your raider still in order to shoot the extra DL. This makes it more vulnerable to CC and it goes towards the flow of Dark Eldar: a very mobile army that can dance round the enemy into the best scoring or cover positions.
But it could work for you, having a more fixed shooting position.

A useful upgrade is Grisley Trophies: since our transports do tend to explode or get wrecked it can help a lot to have a RR for safety. I tend to put them on my 5 Warrior Venom as they pose the least threat at the start of the game. Putting it on all skimmers might be overkill. But be aware that a wise opponent will target your troops first in an objective game, so it might pay off to put GT on all skimmers.

Furthermore I don't like Bloodstone and Onslaught that much. If you have the points, Demi-Klaives and Murderous Assault can be very effective to put wounds on a IC, especially since Archon, Klaivex and the other Incubi have a different I step, so you can have three chances to take care of that IC.

If you find some points I would add Combat Drugs to the Archon, it could be great if you get a free pain token but RR 2 wound is also bliss. I don't know what Danceman meant with SW but I figure he means SF: Shadow Field.

On the Trueborn, you should get 4 Blaster ones if possible but I feel that 3 is still threatening enough.

If you want to try something else than a Ravager for HS, I would recommend the Razorwing. I still need to build the model but I proxyed him once in 2000 game and loved it. Put him in reserves and than you can come and obliterate at least one infantry squad. Just lovely vs those deathstart units. You just put too many wounds on them for them to even stand a chance.

Scourges are not bad but I find them a little too expensive for T3. I love the Haywire blaster but I think in this list another scoring 5x Warrior sqaud in 2x SC venom will bring you more for about the same cost.
 
#6 · (Edited)
New list

Hq=

Archon, agoniser, shadow field, combat drugs, phantasm grenade launcher ;-145

haemonculus, liquifier, venom blade ;-65

Elite=

5 incubi, raider, torment grenade launcher, flicker field, night shield ;-195

5 trueborn, 4 blasters, venom, 2cnd cannon, night shield ;-195

Troop=

5 warriors, blaster, venom, 2cnd cannon, night shield ;-135

5 warriors, blaster, venom, 2cnd cannon, night shield ;-135

5 warriors, blaster, venom, 2cnd cannon, night shield ;-135

10 wracks, 2 liquifier guns, raider, torment grenade launcher, flicker field, night shield ;-205

Fast=

5 scourges, 2 haywire blaster ;-130

beastmaster, 4 kymaras, 1 fiend, 2 razorwing, venom blade ;-135

Heavy=

ravager, night shield, flicker field ;-125

ravager, night shield, flicker field ;-125

ravager, night shield, flicker field ;-125

better?
 
#8 ·
This looks a whole lot better, some tweaks I would apply:

Drop one Incubi to fit them in a Venom together with the Archon

Drop TGL, pick Grisley Trophies instead. I would only recommend TGL together with Crucible. I would put GT on all troop transports, normally they pose the least threat and should be targetted last.

Drop 5th Trueborn, he is useless.

Drop 1 Wrack and thus 1 LG to be able to add the Heamy to the squad and you'll have Furious Charge off the bat!

With Beastmasters: I recommend combining only Kymerae and Razorwing. Normally you should have enough points to upgrade this squad to 3 Bm, 5 Khymerae and 4 Razorwing Flocks.

If you need more points, I would drop the Combat Drugs on the Archon, he only really benefits from Painbringer and Splintermind. When you do hit one of those, you really got the bang for your money.

Another place to look for points is: drop Trueborn to 3 with Blaster and the Scourges, they are quite vulnerable. And use the points to upgrade to a Razorwing Jetfighter, they are just great to decimate anything on foot.
 
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